Forum - View topicINTEREST: Anime Director Yamakan Declares Anime Dead
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Jayhosh
 Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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And once again an industry personality gives his self-admitted "opinion" on the state of an industry that they likely know far more about than any of the people here, and yet again it seems as though barely anybody actually read what he said and is just jumping back into their defense positions. I don't really have a disposition when it comes to the "anime is dead" meme, but I do feel that the medium is slowly and surely becoming more and more homogenous and interchangeable in its variety. Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule occasionally.
And then there's some weirdo accusing Miyazaki of being a lolicon. Seriously, what is wrong with some people? Some guy gets his comment edited for criticizing the precious and innocent SJ/feminism mentality but trite slime like that is perfectly reasonable? Well, now I fear I'm getting too political so I'll just stop there. Last edited by Jayhosh on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Blackiris_
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My bad, sorry about that.
I think that's not a problem per se, but the anime industry excels and being extremely immature in covering these "risqué" themes. For example, there are almost no serious (let alone mature) stories about sexuality and lust – a basic part of being a human being –, yet an insane amount of anime with sexualized character, lots of naked skin, erotic posing, fetishes, and so on. But it is always portrayed in a comedic way, or it's not part of the story at all. It is clearly just geared towards the viewer, and nothing the story benefits from at all. These works pretend to be innocent and prude from a story point of view (e.g. main character always overreacting when he sees a naked girl, either being extremely shocked/ashamed, and shying away from any form of contact) while at the same time blatantly promoting erotic situations. This hypocrisy makes me stay away from all fanservice-y anime today – especially those that at the same time try to be taken seriously while telling a story. I fondly remember Koi Kaze as one of the few meaningful works in this regard, and cringe when I think of incest-promoting works like OreImo that – in the end – take the easy road out with all the "not blood-related" hypocrite excuses.
I think by "fascist" he means the "unwritten rules" he's talking about: Something that dictates exactly how a moe characters has to be, and straying from this formular will be punished (either by fans not buying stuff, or by higher ups not allowing the work to be produced in the first place), thus greatly limiting the creative freedom.
That's a good point, but the form of moe Yamaken means mostly dominated late night anime, and by "dead" he doesn't mean the financial state of the industry, but the creative state, I think. (And even then he clearly said that in regard of his own taste.) Of course if you look at the broader picture, tons of animated content is being produced, any much of it is very successful. But while I honestly like much of what is being produced nowadays, I still think that there are few works that really stand out. Last edited by Blackiris_ on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Alabaster Spectrum
Posts: 528 |
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I actually have little to none of the problems I have with late night anime that I do with day time anime. Day time anime hasn't really changed that much for the worse at all and still has those aspects that got me into anime in the first place and seems more freed up from the production committee hegemony that chokes the life out of your average 12 episode project. Also getting to run in more than 12 episode chunks at a time and allowing the viewer to steep in the universe somewhat kind of helps as well. Also no late night anime dying out wouldn't mean the end of the industry since it existed just fine without it for decades. It really only started taking off about a decade ago but went downhill bloody fast in recent years as the production committees just got too settled in their ways with their formulas, marketing schemes and selling event instead of shows. Doesn't seem like they care much anymore in the slightest other than how can x be used to make y amount of quick cash off the back of z zealous if niche fanbase. Anyway at this point I'm almost starting to find it funny how offended some people seem to be getting that some industry and fan people are criticizing the status quo. I mostly just don't see what's worth defending or being upset about, but then considering I think they've been all but absolutely right on the money I have little to disagree with that they've said either.
When you start to feel like every season is just the same kinds of bland shows with the same kinds of appeals, same casts, same kinds of people scoring them and the same IMO empty hype marketing it gets hard to care or get excited anymore, particularly when you feel the industry just lies through it's teeth with it's marketing and then puts out shows that fall apart both thematically and increasingly nowadays anime production wise. Again just not getting the sense that much care is going into this and it's all just purely business oriented at the end of the day with each year that passes in the 2010's. You're also better off not going anywhere remotely near the gender issue thing on ANN as the sites editorial staff is noticeably particularly sensitive about it. Last edited by Alabaster Spectrum on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Jonny Mendes
 Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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No problem, Glad i could help 
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Jayhosh
Posts: 972 Location: Millmont, Pennsylvania |
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What output?  Also, Spirited Away and The Tale of Princess Kaguya both came out after 2000, Kaguya being their second most recent film, so I would definitely argue that. Kaguya's art and animation alone are worthy of immense praise. I also thought both Arrietty and Marnie were quite pleasant smaller offerings. And stuff like Howl and Ponyo, while flawed, are still very admirable works.
Edit:
Will keep that in mind. It wouldn't be the first time I've been asked to sit in the corner for my naughty transgressions against society. 
Last edited by Jayhosh on Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16961 |
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The user in question had his post edited because his comments were trollish in nature and nothing but bait comments. We also have filtered the SJ term and will continue to edit out those parts of posts from users who try and get around that filter. That user has attempted to do that many times as well. If you have an issue with that term being filtered take it up with the admin because only they can decide that. Not the mods. As for the lolicon comment, that was not reported. The mods don't read every page of every thread (we have lives and don't have 14 hours to spend daily reading every new comment in a day here) so if you think a comment violates the rules in some way you need to report it so we can see it. Don't know how many times the mods can say that. Simply complaining in the thread without reporting it or PM'ing a mod about it does not help much. |
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Ialdaboth
Posts: 94 |
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The past is a foreign country as they say, and some things do have changed over the 30 last years, even in Japan. Lolicon was a pretty big phenomenon in 80s Japan, but not necessarily as oversexualised as what we have come to accept as normal now; and while accusing Miyazaki of being a lolicon strike me as outrageous, he did help to promote girl character types and tropes that have been later adopted by moe; see Clarisse, Nausicaa, Mimiko, Kathy, etc.
It's clearer that way, thanks you. Good point, but I believe production by committee is a bigger threat to artistic creativity than conformity inside your peer group of professionals, but I may be mistaken.. ? |
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0nsen
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Different opinion here. I now have watched every Ghibli movie that is available and can confidently claim that they didn't make a single movie I really liked after Mononoke-hime. (And after Howl they only made stuff I really disliked, except for Kaze Tachinu, which was decent.) I'd even say Ghibli has made an effort to stop making "anime" and with anime I mean what I said about moe a few pages earlier. I don't feel that the new Ghibli stuff is moe and I don't like this. |
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Ialdaboth
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Recall that post-Mononoke Hime, Ghibli was on extended timed; the studio was originally set to dramatically change after the release of the movie, but things didn't go as planned. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
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Check out his ANN profile. He's made some very odd career choices if he really hates moe like that.
Makes as much sense as Future saying he hates rappers who mumble or Kim Kardashian saying she doesn't like rich kids who make sex tapes and use them to launch/further their career. Something doesn't add up. |
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Blackiris_
Posts: 536 |
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Again, read what he actually said before jumping to conclusions. He never said he hates moe.
You're definitely right. That's actually what I meant with "higher ups". Works that stray too far from the established formular are risky endeavors, and will likely not be met with approval from the production committees. |
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takakura
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He actually says in the full interview that he felt that he was taking a glance into a Pandora box when he worked on Haruhi and Lucky Star. He said that he was sure about things like this taking off and creating a whole new wave. In the end he was fired from KyoAni and I guess this makes him especially bitter for missing an opportunity of becoming one of the top directors. His hate for moe is probably some kind of protection for himself from the whole disgrace of being fired like that. |
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Top Gun
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Been giving this topic some more thought, and I think my own issues with the whole current late-night anime scene can be summed up like this: they're shows being made almost exclusively by otaku, for otaku, and (perhaps most damningly) about otaku. And there's nothing at all wrong with that if you're talking about an individual show or two, but when a big chunk of the industry has embraced it as much as it has, there's an insularity to it all that's almost approaching inbreeding. I mean, there's the whole massive spectrum of the human experience to draw from out there, and yet so much of it is overlooked in favor of targeting this one small niche (that admittedly happens to pay well). I look back at the sorts of gateway series that first popularized anime in the world at large, and then I look at this particular sort of show, and if their time periods have been reversed I don't think there's any way that anime could have grown internationally the way it did.
The bottom line is...I'm not an otaku. I'm just a dude who likes animation in general and one day happened to discover that Japan makes a lot of really good examples of it. So when I see this big chunk of shows every season that are hyper-focused on courting an audience I don't identify with in the least, I find it very disconcerting. |
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takakura
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I think you are bluntly wrong here. Let's recall all the so called gateway series. Could you say that Evangelion wasn't made by otaku, for otaku, and about otaku? It was exactly like that. CCS? Love Hina? Chobits? Gundam Seed? Haruhi? Code Geass? Clannad? Macross F? K-on? Raildex? Angel Beats? Madoka? SAO? Love Live? Any of these series is regarded as gateway show both in Japan and abroad, yet every of these shows had broad acceptance among otaku and was made for otaku to an extent. Even Date A Live is quite popular in Taiwan and China and could be regarded as gateway series there. |
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Top Gun
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I would qualify only two or three of those as "gateway series" in any broader sense, and most of what you mention are among the most inward-directed otaku fare I could name. Think far more mass-appeal: Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Sailor Moon, DBZ, Cowboy Bebop, Inuyasha, Naruto, Bleach, Death Note, and so forth. (Hell, you could reach even further back to Speed Racer, Yamato, and Astro Boy itself.) Obviously your list may vary depending on where you live, but you get the idea. The series and movies that introduced this strange thing known as "anime" to an international audience were certainly a different animal than anything you'll find airing in a late-night timeslot today (for one, many of them were shounen adaptations), and while there's certainly room for projects focusing on different audiences, I can't help but see a distinct lack of effort put into titles attempting to expand anime's fanbase, as opposed to catering solely to those who have already bought in (and not even all of those).
(I will at least grant you Evangelion, but I think that's something of a unique example, and it'd be interesting to more deeply study the aspects of it that led to its popularity.) |
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