Forum - View topicThe confusing mess that is - Gundam
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Ultenth
 Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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I've always thought the Gundam series looked really cool, and have seen a bit of different ones, and enjoyed them. I've never really gotten too much into it, because there are just so damn many of them. I've never really understood the way the whole thing is set up, IE, which ones came first, which ones are sequels, and some of them seem like they are just either a retelling of the same story with varations, or an alternate universe or something.
I'm just really confused by the whole gundam universe, and how everything fits together, and it just in some way seemed like they were just spitting out new series' that were just a retelling of the same story in order to get more money. So my question is twofold I guess: Are each of the Gundam Series supposed to be a completely seperate universe, as in a retelling or alternate universe, or are some of them that at some of them sequels. There is like, G gundam, Z gundam, gundam seed, gundam 00, wing gundam, it just seems neverending. And my other question is: If they are related, should I watch them in a certain order to avoid being completely lost, or are all of the different universes so independant that I can pretty much watch all of them independantly. Seems like its kinda like Final Fantasy or something, where the universe basics are the same, but the story and some of the details change. If that is the case, should I be bothered to watch all of them, or just the better ones? |
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Phnixfire
 Posts: 1 Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Hmm, I'm not sure if I can answer all of your questions in a great amount of detail, but I think I can clear some of it up for you.
Simply put, yes some of the Gundam Series revolve in one storyline, which would be the Universal Century timeline. These shows would be Mobile Suit Gundam, 08th MS Team, Gundam 0080, Gundam 0083, Zeta Gundam, Double Zeta Gundam, I think Gundam F91....Char's Counteratttack, and well there are probably a few more but I don't feel like looking all that up. Now there are also a lot of Alternate Universe timelines, which have nothing to do with the original or any of the other AU ones either. Shows like this would be Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Gundam Seed and its sequel Gundam Seed Destiny, and thats all that I can think of, but i think that is pretty much it. The AU Gundam shows you can watch without having seen any other show...obviously because they don't follow the same kind of story. The other Gundam Shows that run along in the UC storyline I think can be watched without having to of seen the previous shows, especially since a few of them are short OVA's anyways, but of course I think its more enjoyable if you have previous knowledge about the storyline. Also, for some of the series, like MSG and Zeta I do believe, there are movie trilogies you can watch instead of the TV shows that make it quicker to view. Up to you really, since I'm not really sure which is better or if either or really is better. Anyways...thats all I could think of off the top of my head. |
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banas
 Posts: 116 Location: In a house in a country in Southeast Asia.. |
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I think the Gundam series is really confusing but I guess the whole story happens one after the other in one universe but each series has a different problem than the one before, I think. But there seems some Gundam series that does not follow this plot.. is that right??
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Awesome, I get to repost this.
Last edited by Nagisa on Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:21 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Murrice
 Posts: 10 |
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Yeah, good post, I am also confused by Gundam Universe, I have Gundam SEED, but didn't give it a try yet.
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kizzmequik_74
 Posts: 302 Location: QC, Philippines |
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Gundam?
There are basically two kinds of universe in Gundam: Universal Century (UC), and the Alternate Universes. You'd only have to watch out for continuity in UC Gundam, Gundam Wing (as it has a sequel OAV: Endless Waltz), and the Gundam SEED (Cosmic Era; CE: there are two TV series). The rest of the Alternate Universe series are stand-alone series that may be watched by themselves. UC Gundam also has a consistent 'science' to them, and generally, these series are more 'hard science' than the AUs. UC Gundam can be generally considered to be the 'classic' Gundam: all of the TV series in that universe were directed by Yoshiyuki Tomino, as well as all of the movies. Strictly speaking, the main storyline of UC Gundam is told through four series, and two movies: Gundam, Zeta Gundam, Gundam ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Gundam F91, and Victory Gundam. The OAV series are side stories that fill in the blanks (and occasionally retcon stuff) between the series and movies. AU Gundam was originally created to lure new audiences to Gundam by giving other directors a crack at the basic concept of the series: a war between space colonies and Earth with giant robots. Or maybe, as gateway series, in order to encourage more fans to buy UC merchandise. The original three AU series were G Gundam, Gundam Wing, and Gundam X. Afterwards, Tomino himself created an AU series, Turn A (which I adore). In the 2000s, there was the CE continuity (SEED and SEED Destiny), and yesterday, the first episode of Gundam 00 was aired. Now, as a Gundam fanboy of sorts, I'd recommend that you first watch the Tomino-directed series and movies in chronological order. The compilation movies are good too, if you wish to save some time. Then watch the UC OAVs, then move on to the AUs. Ufufufufu... But, if you don't have THAT much time, then I'd just recommend that you watch the following to get a feel for UC: Gundam movie trilogy, Zeta Gundam movie trilogy, Char's Counterattack, then watch the Gundam 0080 OAV (which is excellent). Then, go on to Turn A (which I love). Gundam X is good as well, if a bit short. Just beware that the animation, character, and mecha designs in the older series are pretty dated. If you can get past that, you may find Gundam to your liking. 
As an aside, I also suggest that you keep up with the new Gundam (00), since it looks shiny, ufufufufu... |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Nagisa pretty much covered everything that can be said about your first question so I'll attempt to awnser the second one.
You can definitely start at any different timeline. The only real connection is the franchise name and similar concepts and ideas. Definitely watch SEED before you watch SEED Destiny (or better yet just watch SEED and skip Destiny. Its terrible.) Same goes for Wing before Endless Walts (Although I wouldn't recomend either.) With UC: 08th MS Team, 0080: War in the Pocket, and 0083: Stardust Memory can all be watched completely independently with no knowlege of the rest. I would very much recomend you check out 08th MS and 0083 in particular. They are the best of Gundam in my opinion. Zeta is the sequel to the original and there are definitely some continuations. It is definitely watchable without having seen the original though, so either way you should be fine. its more returning characters than continuing plot so you won't be lost by any means. ZZ is a continuation of Zeta so I would definitely recomend seeing Zeta first. I'm not sure about Char's Counterattack as I have not seen it myself. F91 and Victory Gundam both take place long after the rest of UC so I think they should be fine independently. I would not recomend watching them all. Even if you find you love Gundam, it will probably get repetitive at some point. Also, plenty of Gundam series just aren't any good. I wouldn't say they're all the same though. Infact, I think Gundam is rather exceptional in that respect for going in a different direction in each timeline. The general concepts may be similar, but they each took it in a different direction. Universal Century is sortof the traditional military mecha drama that the others take off from. Future Century is more of a matrial arts Anime than mecha. After Colony is focused around several individual characters instead of a ship and its crew like many other series. After War is more of a post apocalyptic adventure (rather than military based like the others.) Correct Century is also tricky to describe. It is definitely different though. Cosmic Era is similar to UC, but more of a melodrama with more of an anti-war theme. SD Gundam is a comedic and or adventure cartoon. I personally would recomend you check out: -Mobile Suit Gundam (If you have a high tollerance of its outdated look.) -08th MS Team/0083: Stardust Memory (Might be a good place to start. They're nice and short and if you don't like these you probably wont like any Gundam.) -Zeta Gundam (Maybe, I personally don't like it all that much but alot of people regard it as excellent.) -Gundam SEED (I quite liked it. The best full length series in my oppinion if you can get over the couple annoying flaws.) -After War Gundam X (Maybe, if you think you would like something less military based. It was never licenced though, so hopefully you don't have an issue with fansubs.) |
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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Thank you for all the explainations and feedback, and yes, this post was primarily triggered by 00 coming out, and my frustration as to if I should even bother watching it, or if it would be based on some of the million other gundam shows and I'd be kinda lost without seeing one of them.
Does this mean that the new 00 series is yet another retelling, and I can watch it independantly? Seems kinda redundant and reeks of fleecing people ala Capcom (street fighter, megaman, etc. etc.) or the FF series to me. |
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Hon'ya-chan
 Posts: 973 |
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And don't watch G-Saviour. Only if your with friends and are hosting a MST3K type of deal.
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Well, nobody can really say at this point since it isnt out yet. We do know it will be set in another alternate universe so it will be watchable independantly. I wouldn't really call any of the series "retellings". That suggests a pretty similar Anime with the same basic characters, plot, etc. The various Gundams are all a similar type of show with reccurring elements such as Mobile Suits, etc. However they are by no means retellings. Only time will sell if it is overly repetitive or redundant. |
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Ultenth
Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
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So basically it's more like final fantasy then, where the universe basics are the same, such as prevalent mecha, but a few really overpowered gundams, war, etc. But they basically just use that basic premise to set different stories in, and instead of just calling it something else and making up more unique mecha designs they just use the name-brand recognition and call it gundam? I'm not trying to be negative, because its seems like an excellent marketting strategy to me, just trying to get a feel for the series and why they don't just call them something completely different. But I guess the name and the iconic look of the gundam does go a long way in terms of viewership and merchandising. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I'm quoting myself from this thread:
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36991
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kizzmequik_74
Posts: 302 Location: QC, Philippines |
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Well, to be completely cynical, the entire franchise is practically geared towards shipping merchandise. Arguably, the good Gundam series are just happy accidents, considering their origins as 50+ episode toy commercials. But really, there were a ton of 'real robot' series created after Gundam in the 1980s, some of them also created by Tomino, and most of them animated by Sunrise. Arguably, none of them matched the popularity of Gundam, nor matched its longevity (except that OTHER franchise, Macross). L-Gaim, Dunbine, Votoms, and Layzner are all 'completely new' series that have passed on to cult status, but have not had the impact of Gundam, nor its brand recognition. Therefore, the studio did what was logical: focus on that brand which is most likely to succeed, and here we have the dizzying array of the Gundam franchise. |
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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Granted Votoms and Dunbine have neither the recognition or impact of Gundam they are both up their for longevity since their seems to always be a revival for both Byston Wells and Perfect Soldier/AT setting stories. I've heard that originally Tomino didn't want Dunbine to be a mecha show from the original treatment. I agree that both 0080 and 0083 which are amongst my favorites seem to have fewer kits based off the series since they relied on LD/VHS sales to subsidize their production costs, compared to the television series which seem to crank out the MS. |
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kizzmequik_74
Posts: 302 Location: QC, Philippines |
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Apologies. Maybe 'longevity' is the wrong term to use, and I should have focused more on the number of installments in their respective franchises. On Dunbine, arguably, Garzey's Wing was closer to Tomino's original vision, but that show has its problems, according to reviews (haven't seen it yet).
It's less that 0080 and 0083 have fewer kits based off the series, but more that generally, in UC, there are less MS designs overall, and of those, there are more 'grunt' MS designs than Gundams. As I recall, most, if not all of 0080 MS have MGs, while only the Gelgoog Marines, Val Varo, Neue Ziel and the Dendrobrium don't have MGs out of the 0083 MS designs (though the latter has a room-conquering HGUC; the other MA have smaller scale HGs). However, the AU series have MS designs and plamo up the hooh-hah. CE is probably an exemplary example of this, with endless releases of Gundam variations, as well as grunt units. Really, comparing the difference a decade makes in terms of merchandising in Gundam is staggering. Of course, as an exception, Turn A only has two Gundam designs, and very unorthodox ones at that. But then, it was a Tomino series, so it takes a more MS-as-weapons-of-war perspective. |
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