Forum - View topicGundam for dummies
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kolibri
 Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Please be gentle with me, I'm pretty much a Gundam virgin.
I recently started watching Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny and it's all very thrilling and interesting and confusing at the same time... especially watching those those two series side by side, episode by episode (at they're shown on TV right now) as in the first few episodes the plot is exactly the same on both... but I digress. So I looked at Wikipedia to tell me what's the story and history behind the Gundam universe, and what would possibly be a better series to start watching it and got immediately more confused. I knew there were multiple series, but the sheer amount is kinda scary. And not only that, but there are multiple different timelines and multiple different alternative universes too? And Wikipedia didn't really give me an easy answer on how to put all the pieces together, or even if the pieces are from the same puzzle. And the fans seem rather rabid about what's good and what's acceptable and what's not. So I was wondering if some of you fine folks who know all about it could help me out... Is there a chronological order to the different series, and does it matter? Is there history I should know? What the hell are the AU series and why are they AU? What is a good series to start with, and can I buy it in a nice preferably cheap box set? What should I avoid like plague? Is it too late to turn back or am I doomed with a new obsession? Any light on the this would be much appreciated. If I sound like a total idiot and a n00b, it's because I am... feel free to correct me. |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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I knew I shouldn't have taken this section down from the Thread Index...ah well.
Anyhow, this is Nagisa's guide (which I think I should just add back into the Thread Index, and maybe the whole section along with it, since Gundam chronology questions pop up so often) to the chronology of Gundam:
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kolibri
Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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How completely excellent! This answers indeed my factual questions, but I'd still love to hear some personal opinions on what would be a good starting point, and what's currently (easily) available on DVD and so on... Unless there's a useful thread on that too - I did do a search before starting this one but I couldn't find anything immediately relevant... didn't want to go into threads about particular series in fear of spoilers.
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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This thread is one of the better one that states many of the release questions.
animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16690 Here is an older (prelist rule) thread here. Although my opinions remain the same I will say I've enjoyed the CE series which were made after this thread. Was this only the 2443rd thread on this site? animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2443 Here is a thread on favorite Gundam series that is bit newer. animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17972 Here is a more recent opinions thread that goes up to Destiny: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18359 There are countless number of threads dedicated to individual series, but these are a few that incorporate most or all of the Gundam universes. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6901 Location: Kazune City |
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I'm in pretty much the same position as you, kolibri, though I've only seen the 08th Team series. One piece of advice I got from some bigtime Gundam fans is to watch the "Gundam Movie Trilogy" rather than the full Gundam 0079 series, as it avoids a lot of "Enemy Gundam of the Week" fights and other filler material, while still covering the important plot points.
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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SEED was what got me into Gundam. Alot of UC fans whine about SEED but I think it was excelent. Its a great place to start as it doesnt require previous knoledge of Gundam.
I haven't seen Destiny, but if a 3rd of the bad stuff I've heard about it is true it isnt very good. I tried to watch the original Gundam but i couldnt get past the ancient animation. I just read a summary of it though and haven't had any problems following later series. 08th MS is my favorite besides SEED. Its relatively believeable as far as Gundam goes. i didn't care for War in the Pocket. It just wasnt very interesting. 0083 was good, not as good as 08th, but still definitely worth seeing. Im part way through Zeta now. G Gundam isnt like other Gundams. Its really more of a martial arts show. If you like Gundam, i make no guaruntees you'll like this. Wing is just...not good. Unlike G which just isnt like other Gundam, Wing tries to be like others and just doesnt do a good job. |
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kolibri
Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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Thanks guys
 I think I'll pick up the "Gundam Movie Trilogy" to start with...
Zeta seems to be really highly esteemed in the older threads, but I understand there were some problems with the subtitles in the box set. The singles come with 10 episodes per disk - that makes only five disks which is not too bad, and the subtitles on those should be ok? G Gundam sounds so interesting. And The 08th MS Team - only 12 episodes, would seem like an easy one to start with? So many choices, so difficult to choose. I understand the OAVs are generally to support the series? One of the most appealing things for me in SEED and Destiny (yeah, I know, everyone keeps telling me it's gonna suck to high heaven) are the character designs, I just find them incredibly cute... Wing character designs look pretty too, with the older series they are obviously quite different. Everyone always keeps talking about mecha designs, but my eye isn't used them yet and I'd find it difficult to tell them apart if they weren't in different colours  ("Look, the bad guys have pink and gray suits!")
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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The boxset used dubtitles, so some scenes were a bit awkward. You would hear someone shout a name and see something else on screne, for example. Also, buying the singles will still make it 10 disks since each 'single' has two discs. But the subtitles were supposedly fixed for the singles releases. |
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Iritscen
 Subscriber Posts: 799 |
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Good place to start. Just remember that the later Gundam works like 0083 and 08th are more snappy and modern-feeling. Watching the original Gundam is a much... slower experience. Since you're watching the movie version of Gundam, you'll only really find that out if you watch Zeta the series instead of the Zeta movie trilogy. Personally, I can't recommend Gundam Wing highly enough; it made me an anime fan, let alone a Gundam fan (and since it's in its own timeline, you can watch it whenever you feel like). I think that it also offers the fairer sex a good "in" with the strong female characters that other Gundam series are lacking.
Definitely watch 08th MS Team after the original movie trilogy. It takes place in the same year (UC 0079), so it's contemporary, and yet it's such a fantastically drawn, modern show that it will be a breath of fresh air after the stale animation in the original Gundam. Then either watch the next series in the timeline, 0083, and then Zeta, or watch Zeta first if you are afraid you won't remember the characters well from the original Gundam, because it's helpful if you have the original Gundam fresh in your mind when watching Zeta. When watching 08th MS Team, feel free to skip Miller's Report. It's only got like 15 minutes of original content (that are unnecessary to the story anyway).
I understand the feeling, but actually few shows really spoil others. Just picking something at random to watch is a viable strategy I do recommend the order I gave above, though.
Using the term OAV is sticky. 0083 itself is an OAV. Endless Waltz is both a movie and an episodic OVA, depending on which version you see.
Well, the designs aren't really important (*Gunotas everywhere gasp*). I can geek out over specs in my Gundam Technical Manuals, but I rarely think much about it when watching the shows. |
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Ah, my big sis is becoming a Gundam fan!
 I'm so proud of her!  It'll be fun to discuss it with you in the future.
Well let's see here....... Gundam Wing is the one that got me into Gundam in the first place back when it used to show on Toonami, so that's probably why I loved it so much. In fact, it's my 2nd favorite next to SEED. The storyline and plot is very basic and not really deep, but I found It's characters to be the most interesting thing about it, as well as the complex philosophical and symbolic take it has on it's war themes (hopefully, it won't be too confusing for you!  It was for me, but only because I was like 13 at the time, but I watched it again when I was older, and understood it much better). Endless Waltz is a very good sequel that does a really good job of tying up loose ends, as well as being quite touching. I'd suggest you watch the movie version as apposed to the OVA version, as I feel it does a better job of doing these things. The action/battle scenes are very exciting (things blowing up every 2 seconds makes for TONS of action!), but if anything, you'll just fall in love with the mech designs! By far the best in all of Gundam! (especially in Endless Waltz! I mean, WOW!!  ) My favorites have got to be the Wing Zero and Deathscythe Hell (their designs in Endless Waltz especially).
The UC universe would probably be the best place to start though, since this is pretty much the origin of all Gundam. However, I think you'll find it to be VERY similar to SEED in a lot of ways, but only because (in my opinion anyways) it kind of did that intentionally in order to salute the original series. Like what Zalis said, and for the same reasons, I'd suggest watching the movie trilogy as apposed to watching the actual original series. All of the side stories are pretty good, My favorite being 08th MS team (good love story and character interactions) and War in the Pocket 2nd (I garintee you'll cry in both seris, especially War in the Pocket as depressing as that one is), but Stardust Memory will probably be a big disappointment, like it was for me. I have to admit I haven't seen ZZ, F91 and Victory Gundam being the only ones in the UC universe I've never seen, and I've only seen a little bit of Zeta, but I hear nothing but good things about those ones. I'd have to say though, Char's Counter Attack is probably one you might want to avoid, but that's just my opinion.
Knowing you big sis, I just know you'll absolutely LOVE G Gundam!!!  It's the only Gundam series that doesn't have anything to do with war, and it's just a really good fighting/shounen type mech series! Plus that and I have to say that Domon Kashu is bay FAR one of the coolest characters in all of Gundam!  The storyline is kind of basic, and the mech designs aren't all that great, but the characters themselves I think is what is worth watching this series for. Not to mention of course that it's just simply an AWESOME series!!!! I have it as my #3 behind SEED and Wing.
And last, but certainly not least, in my opinion the best of all the Gundam series......*drumroll* Moble Suit Gundam SEED!!!!! I think you've already said that you've seen it, or at least most of it, but it just has one heck of an emotional, deep, and complex storyline, with some of the deepest and most interesting characters and character interactions in the entire Gundam universe (I have to say I really love that Lacus Klyne! And hate that Flay Alster with a passion in that way you're supposed to!). Sure, it's plot is way too similar to the original Gundam series, but who cares!! It has some pretty darn exciting and intense action/battle sequences, right up there with Wing, but the best is by far the spoiler[Jakin Due final battle sequence], as it is by far the most intense sequence of events I've ever seen, anime or no, period! Of course, I don't know if you've gotten that far yet, but trust me, you won't be disappointed! SEED Destiny is definitely going to be a disappointment, though. I thought it was actually fairly good at least, but by far inferior to SEED, and to the rest of Gundam as well. Simply put, just don't expect too much of it. So there you are, enjoy!
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goins007
Posts: 291 |
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Gundam is a great series, like some others have said watch the original if you can then 08th MS, followed by 0083, then Zeta. You won't be disappointed. Gundam Wing is probably my favorite of all the non UC time line stories, followed by Seed.
Seed Destiny started off great, but I think what upset most of the fans (myself included) is how they just seemed to waste away any potential the show had. But watch it if you want, I did because I had to see how it all ended no matter how bad I heard it was. |
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ThatMatt
Posts: 162 |
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I'm a huge Gundam fan, have been ever since I saw Gundam Wing on Cartoon Network back in the day. Zeta Gundam is probably the best series I have seen, the connection you get to the characters and the way the story pulls you in is unreal, and its a great series. A very close second would be Gundam X. The blend of action and story in that I felt was superb. The only reason I dont rate it higher than Zeta is because the end of the series felt rushed, because of the whole low rantings and cancellation thing in Japan. Thats my two cents for ya.
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sykosteve
 Posts: 356 Location: columbus, ga |
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Watching the movie trilogy is good and all, but it kinda loses some of its impact. Some attachment you might have had to characters if you had watched the entire series is lessened when just watching the movies. And when certain characters die, it doesn't have as much of an impact with only 6 hours of story as opposed to 20-25 hours.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8501 Location: Penguinopolis |
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My honest opinions on the various Gundam productions:
First, starting with Gundam SEED is a good idea. It's very simple and contains most of the basic elements and ideas that the other Gundam shows, especially the Universal Century shows, and is (mostly) pleasing to the eyes, despite the lack of character design variety. It's not my cup of tea - I found it shallow and wanting, but as a beginner's series, it's fine. Just don't get too hyped up about Destiny - it starts off well enough, but then slips into a deep mire. The best Gundam productions to continue with after becoming interested in Gundam would probably be Turn A Gundam or Gundam X, but you won't find them commercially available in R1, so perhaps Gundam Wing would do, instead. Gundam Wing is a bastion of mediocrity and ham-fisted philosophy, but it has more variety in characterization and more originality in its plot than Gundam SEED does. If you want to break into what started Gundam out to begin with, I'd reccomend using Gundam 08th MS Team as a stepping stone into the Universal Century. It's what I did. It might help interest you in some of the older, grainer animated productions. Don't venture into Gundam 0083 yet - wait until later. It's really only useful as a filler between the original series and the second one, despite having been made several years later. By itself it's a rather weak copycat of the original series, but with much less time to develop characters. 08th MS Team is the finer of the two Universal Century OVAs. You could watch Gundam 0080, though. It's a short OVA, only six episodes, and well done. The ending will probably be the most significant thing for you. Mobile Suit Gundam, the original series, is probably the best (and certainly the most breakthrough) Gundam work, and one of Yoshiyuki Tomino's finer works. However, the series lacks a certain focus and can be very "mecha of the week". And since it is a rather old series, I reccomend starting with the compilation trilogy, which covers the span of the story in the series, rearranging here and there and cutting out filler and unnecessary elements, most of which there merely to sell toys (and ugly looking ones, at that). The movie trilogy is great - there hasn't been any compilation work quite as good as it since. If after finishing the movies you find yourself intriguied by the original story, check out the TV series itself. Now would be a good time to move onto Gundam 0083. But also, try to branch out at this point - watch G Gundam, for one. It's very un-Gundam-like, but it's a fun romp that doesn't take itself seriously - so you shouldn't either. Just enjoy. If you haven't seen Turn A or X by this point, try to find it. If you can't, you might want to move onto the next phase of the Universal Century. Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam is my personal favorite, besides the original series. It has a dark, moody atmosphere and an engaging and complex storyline. There are many great moments in it and you'll see some old friends from the original series. There are a few somewhat questionable elements, and its obvious Tomino isn't very good with romance or dialogue (although there are some fine pieces of dialogue scattered throughout the more clunky and contradictory lines), but it's paced well and has a fitting ending - although it's more of a "To Be Continued", since ZZ Gundam picks up where it leaves off. Please, please, PLEASE avoid the Zeta Gundam movies. They're a badly truncated version of the events of Z and Tomino felt it necessary to give it a happier ending to suit his hatred for anything he wrote between the original Gundam series and Turn A. "Happy Tomino" can be very annoying and gives himself too little credit for his past works. He even goes as far as pleading with fans not to buy V Gundam. ZZ Gundam is - well, special. It starts off with kiddie hijinks and ridiculing the dark attitude of the previous show, often putting serious characters in absurd and demeaning positions for an embarassingly trite attempt at humor. The main cast is mostly populated by throw-aways, who even when the plot gains momentum are still as useless. It's a shame - there is much potential later on in the show, but it's mostly overshadowed by the first half of the show's ridiculous episode plots. Judau Ashta is probably the most likable Newtype main protagonist in the Universal Century, but many of his friends are merely seat-fillers. As I've mentioned, the series improves in the second half, but by then you might be too exhausted by the failures before that portion that you don't care. It might be better to steer clear from this show - but then, you were impressed by SEED, so I suppose it shouldn't be so bad. Char's Counterattack is an epic movie. The obligatory Tomino children hangers-on are a bit of an obstacle to how much more good it could have been, but as is it's a very dramatic and powerful storyline that essentially concludes a large part of the Universal Century era. It has some great mecha action, too. Certainly a must after you've finished the original show and Zeta. Gundam F91 is a movie that was originally supposed to have been a long series, It's worth checking out for its action, but the incomplete plot bothered me. Well, maybe "incomplete plot" is a bit harsh - the main plot was rather complete. There was just a lot hanging off of it that could have used animating. Victory Gundam is the series that Tomino doesn't want you to see, because he was depressed when he made it. It's a fairly good series, though they shed characters like dandruff and it can get very, very dark. Still, there is a kind of hopefulness to it that say, Zeta Gundam doesn't have, and although it has some weird head-scratching moments, it's well worth watching. Anyway, it's best to shed any notions of SEED's originality early on - most of the show is a somewhat lacking remix of the events of the original series. And the less said about Destiny, the better. Still, it's good that those shows at least got you interested in Gundam. I'll admit, they're a good starting block, if nothing else. |
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Turn A or Gundam X? Really? Granted, you don't need to have much background in Gundam to watch either of them, but they're the two alternate universes that most benefit from having seen earlier shows. With Gundam X basically covering an alternate future had the OYW ended differently, it's kind of helpful to have seen the original show, although not at all necessary. And Turn A, though it stands alone fine, has all those references to previous shows -- mecha designs, Black History, Dianna's palace, name dropping, possible Newtypes, etc. I can't imagine it's as fun to watch if you don't catch the references. That said, their significance is still spelled out for you pretty clearly whether you get them or not, so I suppose it's not necessary to watch the older shows first, it just helps. Anyway, I mostly just skimmed this thread so I'm not sure if I'm just repeating what someone else has already said, but here's my two cents on the question at hand: it's pretty much okay to start anywhere in the series as long as you're not picking up with a direct sequel to something else. First Gundam is the most obvious starting point; you could also watch any of the spinoff OVAs if you want, but obviously they work a little better if you're familiar with the main story. From there, Zeta, ZZ, and CCA are all direct sequels that rely on each other and First Gundam to varying degrees, so it's a poor idea to start with any of those three. F91 offers a fresh start 30 years later and so can stand alone fairly well, although it's best if you can also read the Crossbone Gundam manga afterward. Victory Gundam starts another 30 years later and so also stands alone pretty well. It is, incidentally, my favorite Gundam show (or at least it used to be; I tried to rewatch it recently and lost interest after like 20 episodes, so Turn A, which I successfully rewatched about a year ago, may now be number one). If you don't want to start with the OYW, F91, or Victory, you can dive right into pretty much any alternate universe, although as I mentioned previously in my response to penguintruth, X and TAG both benefit from prior Gundam background (TAG much moreso than X, though). Gundam Wing is somewhat similar to Gundam SEED in a few basic ways -- it's pretty much a straight up recap of the UC story, but where SEED and Destiny are mostly just restricted to tweaking various elements of the 0079 and Zeta stories, Wing summarizes the whole UC era up through CCA. Wing also features excessively powerful Gundams (to some extent all the alternate universes are really guilty of this, but Wing and SEED moreso than the others) piloted by a small, elite group of child soldiers. However, compared to SEED, Wing's story is very dumbed down; SEED tries to tackle issues of racism, the role of technology, etc (somewhat clumsily, but that's beside the point), while Wing mostly concerns itself with childish idealism. Then there's G Gundam, hands down the second best alternate universe (behind TAG), but it's a startling change of pace from the rest of the Gundam shows. It can stand alone just fine, but it's not exactly representative of what you should expect from other Gundam shows, so it might set the wrong tone if you start out with it. So, to recap. Suitable starting points: First Gundam, Gundam F91, Victory Gundam, Gundam Wing. Serviceable starting points: OYW sidestories (08MST, 0080), G Gundam, Gundam X. Poor starting points: Turn A Gundam. Sequels that should not be watched first: Gundam 0083, Zeta Gundam, Gundam ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Endless Waltz. |
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