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EP. REVIEW: Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World-


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Silver4000



Joined: 07 Aug 2015
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:00 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Silver4000 wrote:
So... no one's commenting on that Pride thing that Betelgeuse called Subaru? While he was calling himself Sloth? No? I'm reading too much on something? Ok.

Skip back about a page and a half to here and start reading.


Thank you. It's hard to keep track on what episode the comments are. Usually it's just two pages.
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#838774



Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 158
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:06 am Reply with quote
kotomikun wrote:

The main thing that bothers me about this possibility is that, if it's true, it would feel like the show's fallen into being "dark for the sake of dark." Though it's kinda been heading that direction for a while now.


Love happy endings, but the darkness and "pointless" dead-end episodes, as you say, are my favorite part of the show. I don't think it's being overly dark/melodramatic yet. It's a political intrigue version of goosebumps where you must follow a very precise route not to get your shit wrecked by the monsters surrounding you.

It's OK to like one aspect of the series and not love the others. However, the darkness is clearly part of the series and it's part of what draws people to the series.
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Gistradagis



Joined: 03 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:39 am Reply with quote
About why the cultists acted differently the 2 times they meet Subaru, I think we are not seeing the situation properly. Betelgeuse is not with them, so they are acting as they see fit each time.

1st encounter: mission has been completed, they are returning and find a guy with the aura and smell of the Witch. They infer that he must be somewhat related either to the Cult, or the Gospel, or something. They make a quick bow in deference to someone who probably has a higher status than them, and then continue in their way.

2nd encounter: on their way to the mission, they find a guy with the aura and smell of a witch, and a female demon tribe member who goes crazy after seeing them. Has she kidnapped the guy? Or is something else going on? No matter what, they need to fight this demon tribe member, and the guy might be important or part of the mission, so better take him and ask Betelgeuse (their direct leader) about it.

DRosencraft wrote:
As for the idea of Pride and Subaru, I think that might be a red herring. We have to remember, that while it may seem like Subaru is ruled by Pride at the moment, it is an outlay of a number of maddening events and centered around his inability, in a literal sense, to be forthright with what he's experienced. I don't see his outburst with Emilia, his outbursts and fights at the ceremony, as himself being prideful in the classical sense, but more his frustration in knowing a little different insight about what is going on, but not being able to explain the reason for that insight. He knows he can go back in time, and in doing so be able to change events for the better, but can't tell anyone, so is left sounding like a prideful fool telling people to just trust him and that he has the power to do anything.

Remember, for much of the series he uses himself as the butt of jokes and puts himself down, which are not the acts of someone with the mark of Pride. He has repeatedly willingly thrown away his pride for the sake of achieving goals. Also, recall that while Betelgeuse called himself Sloth, he didn't exactly demonstrate the qualities of Sloth, and in fact seemed averse to those exhibiting those qualities, though it can be tough to tell through his madness. It is possible that, if anyone here saw Trinity Seven, or is familiar with other series that dabble with the concept, the masters of each sin are actually those who have conquered or are otherwise diametrically opposed to that sin - the master of greed being a generous sort, for example. I tend to think, however, that the comment about Pride was meant more to raise the specter of that actual character showing up soon in the story, or highlight the fact that there are other whack-jobs like Sloth here who will be showing up, not necessarily a face-value assertion that Subaru going to be directly linked beyond his current level of contact with the Jealous Witch or her cult followers.


I'd say it's the exact opposite! We all know people like this, and have probably acted like it at least a couple times before.
The people who put themselves down for the sake of jokes tend to do it in an extremely prideful fashion. As a way to avoid considering it a fault, they turn problems and failures into a joke and something they are "proud" of in a sort of twisted way, like how the clown in a class will put himself down because he knows that's what makes people laugh and like him.

If we consider this, then Subaru has fit the mold of Pride extremely well since the begining of the serie, and not just the past few episodes.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:34 am Reply with quote
Going over the discussion, I feel like reiterating my theory that Witch like Subaru tried to do good, but she did not get the proper response, perhaps she grew steadily insane and committed atrocities while thinking she was still doing the right thing. I would say she might have become something akin to a cosmic horror, and perhaps her mentality split, and from that had Betelgeuse chosen as an agent of the sin of Sloth for chaotic purposes, while Subaru is her agent of the sin of Pride. It could be the scale of the series itself is seeing a battle between hope and despair of the witch, similar to what we are seeing with Subaru.

Although I am probably just coming up with outlandish theories, I tend to do that.
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Riddley



Joined: 14 May 2011
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:54 am Reply with quote
I was reading on the reddit thread that the suffering of Subaru in the novels has put off readers lol. Can already see it putting off some of the viewers as well.

I think monster at the end was Puck, in his most powerful, angry, and vengeful form. Remember that Subaru and Puck promised to protect Emilia. So seeing Subaru waltz in after her death would have enraged him. I'm curious about the "my daughter" part though.

I think the Pride bit has importance. So something I was thinking about - there were more than one witch of sin right? So maybe the one that has it's claws in Subaru is the witch of Pride? Hence he's it's embodiment and explains his obnoxious behaviour. Honestly, I've never loathed a character as much as I did after his rant to Emilia, then immediately felt massive pity for him after Rem dies horribly.

Overall this series is a massive surprise hit for me. Definitely keeping on my top 5-10 anime of all time. Hoping it remains there with the rest of the show.
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michizure



Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:23 am Reply with quote
Riddley wrote:
I think the Pride bit has importance. So something I was thinking about - there were more than one witch of sin right? So maybe the one that has it's claws in Subaru is the witch of Pride?

The only witch that survived was the "Jealous Witch," which suggests that she is the witch of Envy, not Pride. Also, if these titles are significant, what envy is she acting out by manipulating Subaru? Something surrounding "I have no last name" Emilia?

I need to go back and listen to the raw dialogue for "Jealous Witch" and the "my Lord" comment: there may be a nuance (e.g., a non-gendered word for "lord") that's lost in the translation. Can anyone who's more fluent comment?
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jutsuri



Joined: 14 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:08 am Reply with quote
I feel like I need more info on the Jealous Witch and Dragon before I can start making any guesses about their goals and methods, although I think Subaru being labeled 'Pride' did seem meaningful and fitting. Not so much because of what he's said, but more because of his tendency to think that he alone can fix things.

Back in episode three (technically four) when Emilia and Puck are fighting the Bowel Hunter and Puck reaches the time he has to go to sleep, he tells Emilia: 'If anything happens to you I'll fulfill my contract.' I have to wonder if turning into a giant and freezing everything is what that meant, as in 'if you die, I'll kill everyone.'

Earlier there was discussion about how Ram and Rem are not human, so it makes sense that they don't think like humans. As a great spirit I think Puck is probably even less like a human, and so it's possible that even though he appears to like Subaru he really only cares about Emilia. As long as she is alive he'll be friendly, but upon her death all humans become the enemy - or at least inconsequential.

That's my two cents.
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AksaraKishou



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Location: End of the World
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:57 am Reply with quote
So, i was wondering the webs and i found this:

"At the time, FHI CEO Kenji Kita chose the Subaru name, a Japanese word referring to the Pleiades star cluster. It represented five stars becoming one."

Should i look out for new characters with names related to stars? Since Subaru and Betelgeuse are stars and all that.

Source: http://www.automotive-fleet.com/news/story/2016/05/fuji-heavy-industries-changes-name-to-subaru.aspx
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Desa



Joined: 07 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:27 am Reply with quote
That giant thing at the end was creating a blizzard around the area so it couldn't have been Puck. Puck doesn't have that scale of power because Emilia doesn't have that kind of power and Puck is contracted to her.

Beako calls Puck her brother. If we take that at face value that means they must have parents or at least a progenitor (don't know how spirit ancestry works in Re Zero). It was most likely Beako who died and this made Big Mama very mad so she came and wiped out all the cultists. When Subaru came she must have detected Witch scent on him and assumed he was with the cultists and offed him too. Subaru is nothing if not a victim of circumstance.

Anyone who's even casually paying attention would definitely not think that thing at the end was Rem's parent. Rem and Ram are blood sisters and we've seen their parents in the oni village that got cleansed by the cultists. Rem and Ram's parents are dead.

And I highly doubt it's Emilia's parent. I mean, giant creatures mating with elves? In the DC universe I get that Raven is Trigon's daughter but I really doubt Re Zero is going down that route. Emilia's lineage is likely far less dark than Raven's since it's mainly her hair color that gives her so much flak rather than her blood unless Re Zero's people are prejudiced against interracial breeding or half-elves in general but I don't that's the case here.
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Gistradagis



Joined: 03 Nov 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:47 am Reply with quote
Desa wrote:
That giant thing at the end was creating a blizzard around the area so it couldn't have been Puck. Puck doesn't have that scale of power because Emilia doesn't have that kind of power and Puck is contracted to her.

Beako calls Puck her brother. If we take that at face value that means they must have parents or at least a progenitor (don't know how spirit ancestry works in Re Zero). It was most likely Beako who died and this made Big Mama very mad so she came and wiped out all the cultists. When Subaru came she must have detected Witch scent on him and assumed he was with the cultists and offed him too. Subaru is nothing if not a victim of circumstance.

Anyone who's even casually paying attention would definitely not think that thing at the end was Rem's parent. Rem and Ram are blood sisters and we've seen their parents in the oni village that got cleansed by the cultists. Rem and Ram's parents are dead.

And I highly doubt it's Emilia's parent. I mean, giant creatures mating with elves? In the DC universe I get that Raven is Trigon's daughter but I really doubt Re Zero is going down that route. Emilia's lineage is likely far less dark than Raven's since it's mainly her hair color that gives her so much flak rather than her blood unless Re Zero's people are prejudiced against interracial breeding or half-elves in general but I don't that's the case here.


Puck is supposed to be a great spirit, why would that power be out of his reach? Also, he's contracted to Emilia, which could imply a limiter on his raw output of power. But if Emilia is dead (which is implied the first time Subaru arrives to the mansion and dies), it would make sense for Puck to not only go berserk, but also release his full power.

Beacko calls Puck her brother in an affectionate manner. There's nothing hinting or implying at any actual relation between them apart from her being enamoured with Puck.

You might also be taking too literally the "daughter" thing. We know so little, that it could mean anything, and with the rest of the stuff that we know (like how the voice in the frozen room resembles Puck's, and "something" insta-kills Subaru right after the voice speaks), it makes quite a lot of sense if that is Puck speaking about how his daughter/bonded/protegee Emilia is sleeping (has died), and kills Subaru yet again for being too late (like the first time).
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NeverConvex
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:09 pm Reply with quote
Not really buying your reasoning for the large creature at episode's end not being Puck, Desa; unless I've missed the show information-dumping on the mechanics of its in-world magic, we don't really know anything about the nature of magical contracts or their operation in Re;Zero, so it seems quite a leap to conclude that Puck contracting with Emilia implies that she has full access to all of his powers. Reasoning about the details of fantasy-world mechanics in the absence of a detailed in-world explanation of how they operate from a reliable narrator is, I think, an exercise fraught with futility.

As others have pointed out, I think it's also not very clear that Emilia doesn't have access to the power Puck displayed; recall her ominous suggestion during the Bowel Hunter fight that she had a "trump card" available but would not use it for fear of slaughtering everyone except herself. A Puck-raging blizzard powerful enough to wipe out all life in the local area would seem to fit that description pretty well.
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Tyler Bregg



Joined: 05 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:04 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
That giant thing at the end was creating a blizzard around the area so it couldn't have been Puck. Puck doesn't have that scale of power because Emilia doesn't have that kind of power and Puck is contracted to her.

Beako calls Puck her brother. If we take that at face value that means they must have parents or at least a progenitor (don't know how spirit ancestry works in Re Zero). It was most likely Beako who died and this made Big Mama very mad so she came and wiped out all the cultists. When Subaru came she must have detected Witch scent on him and assumed he was with the cultists and offed him too. Subaru is nothing if not a victim of circumstance.

Anyone who's even casually paying attention would definitely not think that thing at the end was Rem's parent. Rem and Ram are blood sisters and we've seen their parents in the oni village that got cleansed by the cultists. Rem and Ram's parents are dead.

And I highly doubt it's Emilia's parent. I mean, giant creatures mating with elves? In the DC universe I get that Raven is Trigon's daughter but I really doubt Re Zero is going down that route. Emilia's lineage is likely far less dark than Raven's since it's mainly her hair color that gives her so much flak rather than her blood unless Re Zero's people are prejudiced against interracial breeding or half-elves in general but I don't that's the case here.

.


I'll put an end to it it's puck the voice matches and I've read spoilers even if I didn't read spoiler I'd have assumed it'd be puck filled with rage after emilia's implied death, also is puck a boy or girl seriously the VA sounds like a guy or girl trying to sound like one (speaking of VA's it's gonna be hard to dub it I hope it get's one since my friends won't watch a subbed anime no matter how good it''s acted) "saying you're to late"

and how would anyone draw the conclusion that a giant ice monster who freezes everything and says "rest now with my daughter" like it knows him after emilia's implied death, think it was the witch who was sealed away long ago I've heard even more ridiculous sounding theroys in reviews.

also this is not a spoiler because it's pretty ****ing obvious.
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Desa



Joined: 07 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:07 pm Reply with quote
Gistradagis wrote:
Puck is supposed to be a great spirit, why would that power be out of his reach? Also, he's contracted to Emilia, which could imply a limiter on his raw output of power. But if Emilia is dead (which is implied the first time Subaru arrives to the mansion and dies), it would make sense for Puck to not only go berserk, but also release his full power.
I was under the impression that spirits weren't like gods and it was a contract that allowed them to be tethered to a corporeal form and only for a time. During the bowel-hunter arc Puck couldn't manifest after sundown? I don't think that's because he's being limited by Emilia. If a contract limits his power so much why bother in the first place? If Puck cares so much about Emilia why not stick around of his own volition, contract-free, like a genie without the limits of the lamp? I assumed spirits probably had to pay a high price to manifest their power in the material world without a contractor but I guess not?

Gistradagis wrote:
Beacko calls Puck her brother in an affectionate manner. There's nothing hinting or implying at any actual relation between them apart from her being enamoured with Puck.
Ok so they're not siblings. Got it.

Gistradagis wrote:
You might also be taking too literally the "daughter" thing. We know so little, that it could mean anything, and with the rest of the stuff that we know (like how the voice in the frozen room resembles Puck's, and "something" insta-kills Subaru right after the voice speaks), it makes quite a lot of sense if that is Puck speaking about how his daughter/bonded/protegee Emilia is sleeping (has died), and kills Subaru yet again for being too late (like the first time).
The first time it was probably Puck. He most likely used the move he would've used on the bowel-hunter if no one else was around at the time. This was already activated when Subaru got there though, but he didn't notice its effects until he touched the door. I don't think this is Puck directly killing him so much as being unable to exclude him from an area-effect spell that was already in effect.
The second time things played out differently. Ram died outside rather than inside. She probably felt Rem's distress and intercepted the cultists earlier. Something more important must have changed this time since there's a full-on blizzard outside the mansion rather than calm air like the first time. And then there's the giant creature. If this creature is Puck it doesn't explain why his actions are so different from the first time.
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jutsuri



Joined: 14 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:25 pm Reply with quote
My opinion is that it is due to a difference in timing. Subaru arrived at the forest earlier the second time, but because he was held captive during the attack and it took some time for Rem to free him and then more time for him to carry her to the mansion, he ended up reaching the mansion later. The area effect spell simply had more time to spread and grow more powerful the second time around.
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Grendel8



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:49 pm Reply with quote
I don't believe anyone has given this information as of yet. There has been a lot of speculation as to the identity of the the large creature at the end of the episode, so I will provide some quotes from the manga. The following statements will be spoilers.

spoiler[During the candidates' introduction at the ceremony, Subaru became enraged with Roswaal and lunged at him. Roswaal tried to kill Subaru, although this was a set up by Roswaal in order to force Puck to show himself. Puck stopped Roswaal's magic attack directed at Subaru. Puck's first comment was, "These humans sure have been saying whatever they want in front of my daughter", referring to Emilia. Emilia said, "If you chose to continue..." and Puck finished her line by saying, "I'll heed my daughter's wishes and use my power.'

The council members were shocked to see Puck, and the main council member said, with fear and respect, "The Beast of the End... Of the Eternally Frozen Lands." At which point Puck acknowledged that he may have been referred to by that name before and that the council member was a knowledgeable youngster.

Roswaal , smirking, confirms that Puck is indeed one of the Four Great Spirits. The one referred to since ancient times as "The Beast of the End of the Eternally Frozen Lands," and Emilia's contract spirit. The council members are shocked that one of the Four Great Spirits would allow themselves to be used by someone else. Puck scolds everyone saying that they all have not been iced due to Emilia's choosing. The scene goes on, but it shows that Puck is far more than what he has been shown as in the anime version. So according to this, I would have to say that it was indeed Puck who was shown in the ending scenes.]


Last edited by Grendel8 on Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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