Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Re:Zero -Starting Life in Another World-
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
DrunkAyanami
 Get off my lawnPosts: 88 Location: The great state of Vermont |
|
|||
|
Christ that last episode was painful to watch. Like, Curb Your Enthusiasm levels of cringe (or for anime viewers: Watamote). It was doing OK with the continued new character intros, and then Subaru went full on White Knight Neck Beard. I was face-palming the whole time. The only redeeming value I found was that at least I can tell that the author understands Subaru was being a complete tool by having Emilia call him out on it.
On one hand, I think I like where the creator is going with this (I'm getting hints of Oregairu but in a fantasy setting). On the other hand, I have to sit through Subaru being completely insufferable YET AGAIN. It nearly made me quite the series the first time around, I don't know if I can handle a second. Kinda sad Theron won't be around until next episode. |
||||
|
||||
Grendel8
 Posts: 59 Location: 41°51'0.11" N -87°39'0.18" W |
|
|||
|
I agree. I just finished watching it and I am shaking my head. Judging from the episode titles it looks like a bumpy ride for a while. I look forward to seeing how this develops.
|
||||
|
||||
|
#844391
Posts: 517 |
|
|||
|
ep 13,
wtf happened to subaru, I know he does crazy things sometimes but he's practically gone down the yandere route at this point. Following emilia when he said he wouldn't, sneaking into the selection hall, openly insulting some of the most powerful people in the kingdom (and making emilia look bad by association) and then trying to take on a knight by himself. He should have an idea of how strong the knights are by seeing Reinhart fight the bowel hunter woman. Then he goes nuts in front of Emilia. I don't know anything about the light novel or manga but if I had to guess I would think that the jealous witch's magic is maybe affecting him, causing him to become obsessed with Emilia. I bet her body is the witch's body and the witch is using subaru to protect her, giving him the time reset ability and making him obsessed over her safety. Just a guess, as it just seems really weird for him to go off the rails like that as he's been pretty intelligent for the most part until now. |
||||
|
||||
DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15573 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
|
|||
I think that it was largely that Subaru felt that he was being cornered from a relationship he felt that he had earned, that all his work was being invalidated, and the only way he could think to try and fix it was by doing his usual crazy stuff, only now was really not the time. But I think you may be onto something with the Jealous Witch, not that this was quite proof of a connection or it affecting Subaru, but that I think that this may be a hint. Subaru was jealous, and his actions became destructive, which makes me think that the Witch might have been very similar. Maybe she tried to do what she felt was right, but everyone said that they never asked for her help, and from her frustration of not getting the reward she felt that she deserved, was born the legacy that she is known for. What Subaru is going through may be important to understand. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11586 |
|
|||
|
I think it's a little harsh to view Subaru's outburst as denoting a sense of entitlement to her. This is a very different situation than the typical knight rescuing the princess and automatically assuming she's his reward for that, or "nice" guys being angry they don't get laid for simply being "nice." He's never approached her as if she's his prize for a level successfully completed. He's been steadily working to build their relationship and earn her affection. But she doesn't know this. And he can't tell her. And that's the crux of the problem between them.
It's that disconnect coupled with the prospect of being exiled from her that led to that panicked and frustrated outburst. In a weird sense, he's like a stalker in that she's always been on his mind every waking hour for over a month, and to her it's barely been a week, and only a few hours actually in his presence during that time. While he may or may not rationally understand this, emotionally he hasn't faced it. Let's not forget he's still only 18, and a recluse at that. His social skills aren't exactly fully matured. I don't think it's "entitlement" to want a thanks for saving someone's life over and over, rather than being shut out and abandoned for that very thing. He's never demanded that she fall in love with him or belong to him because of it. As usual, he was pretty much spouting off to himself, both pleading his case to her (including trying to guilt trip her into not abandoning him in the city - she's his anchor in this unfamiliar world, and the prospect of losing that was terrifying) and railing at the universe about how unfair it all is that she doesn't even know she owes him her life several times over. Even with all that I don't think he saw her as his due reward, he just felt he'd earned the right to remain at her side to give him a chance to win her heart (and keep protecting her). Is that unreasonable? To me that's the opposite of entitlement. It's just that given the circumstances his words didn't quite come out as tactfully as we'd all like. 
|
||||
|
||||
Juno016
 Posts: 2420 |
|
|||
It's a reasonable sense of entitlement, but a sense of entitlement, nonetheless. He did everything he thought was right. He saved her, he protected her servants, he hid his scars so he wouldn't worry her, he dedicated everything to her, even going so far as to be sacrificial to those he cared about and use up all his magic to the point where he almost broke himself. He believes in and values these actions. Even in the current timeline leading up to this moment in Emilia's eyes, she's seen a lot of that. But that's where the disconnect happens and where Subaru is being foolish. Even disregarding everything she doesn't know, he thinks she finally understood and believed in him BECAUSE of his self-sacrificial nature. He felt he was doing the right thing by going against her words to save her. But in that, he's completely ignoring her feelings and her wishes. Thinking about how many times she has told him NOT to do something, and then he did it anyway... and this last time, when she said, "It's a promise" and he didn't even think twice to break that promise (last episode, I even wondered about how she felt about that, considering how much she emphasized that it was a promise--I'm glad they acknowledged it because it was nagging the crap out of me)... THAT was his biggest mistake, and he realized it at the end, which is why he got unreasonably defensive and made an even bigger fool of himself. He's denying he may have actually done something wrong because his personal sense of egotistical justice has been affirmed up to this point by the results of his actions. As for the darkness inside him, I think that's HIS darkness and not JUST an external element gifted to him. We all have it, and some of us are better at keeping in control than others. Subaru has trouble controlling it, though. He speaks what's on his mind, even when the social atmosphere would make an obnoxious Westerner in Japan zip their mouth shut. He doesn't just like Emilia--he DOTES on her, calling her "-tan" (it's a very fanboy-ish suffix often used like a pet name or a cute idol one likes), trying to protect her at every corner, acting as if she and him were already dating, letting his romantic urges swell up in sweet, but somewhat forceful ways... etc. He doesn't treat her like someone he loves. He treats her like someone he's chasing after. And that's what's egotistical and a major part of his dark side here. And I think he's going to have to learn a great deal more about who Emilia really is, not just as a half-elf, but as a person, and stop projecting his ideals onto her. And that's why I'm really excited about this development. |
||||
|
||||
Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||
|
Everybody has such great analysis! I hadn't even considered that the witch might be (partially?) behind Subaru's infatuation with Emilia, but that does seem likely. It's certainly not a coincidence that Emilia looks like the witch, but "why" is still up in the air (and this anime probably won't run long enough for us to find out, but my theories include:
1. She's an incarnation of the witch with no conscious recollection of her previous life (possibly due to Roswaal's meddling) 2. She's a direct descendant of the witch). Last episode I wrote:
*Sigh*, Subaru, Subaru, you need to build Emilia's trust in you, not completely destroy it. What did you do?! You humiliated her, undermined her in every way in front of the most important people in her country, insulted every knight in attendance, and put your own life in danger by using magic when she expressly told you not to. You did most of this to assuage your own ego, but got defensive and claimed it was for her sake when she called you out on it. By the end of the episode, I started thinking that Subaru dying and starting over would be the easy way out of this one. He's going to have earn Emilia's trust again, and to do that, he's going to have to realize A. That he is susceptible to his pride, and B. Emilia is a capable person who doesn't need his protection. She wants and needs his respect and to be treated like an equal. |
||||
|
||||
|
Juno016
Posts: 2420 |
|
|||
On the one hand, like most people here, I hope death DOESN'T help him overcome this. If he dies in the next episode or two, I'd like to see him wake up AFTER this event. It's not like he hasn't tried living with the consequences of his actions, but I can see him suddenly thinking that, like his suicide before, he can just fix it all by killing himself. And when it doesn't happen, he's going to have to pick himself up in a much better way. On the other hand, though, if death were to erase this event, there are still ways to make it relevant. For instance, maybe Subaru's thinking, "I know what she feels now. I can do things better because I know why she got upset!" and then he says something else that he thinks is better, but he's still too full of himself to get it into his skull that HE might be the problem here and messes it up again. After a few times failing, he'll pass an event in the story that makes him realize and finally INTERNALIZE what Emilia has been trying to tell him all along. This direction could easily fall apart if the audience is too aware of his personal issues and start to distance themselves from him as a likable, relatable character, but it could also be utilized well to make the solution of what he needs to do unclear to even us. Or maybe it is clear to us, but the stakes are high and we still sympathize/empathize with him on his struggle to be a better person. |
||||
|
||||
|
Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11586 |
|
|||
I guess we have different definitions of what that phrase means. To me it implies something due without earning it. People aren't entitled to other people's love or friendship because those things aren't earned, they're given. Gratitude, trust, acknowledgement or respect though, those can be earned (though are not guaranteed), and he thinks he's done enough to merit them, but no one knows that but him. And to have the good things you've done interpreted as self-serving, a strike against you, and a justification to break ties with you would confuse anyone. I guess I don't understand what people wanted him to do. Wait at the mansion as promised (since he can't give her a plausible reason not to make that promise), and when he gets news she's been killed (and he has no idea how it happened so he can't fix it), go, "Darn. Oh well, what could I do, I did promise her"? I'm not arguing that he didn't do boneheaded things at the castle he shouldn't have, and he knows that, but people keep saying he betrayed her by not keeping his promise, as if he had no excuse for that. I'm not saying he handled things well, I just don't think he's the total jerk who must be punished everyone is painting him as. Maybe that's what I least understand, the ones rubbing their hands in glee waiting for his head to roll. |
||||
|
||||
TheRahi00
 Posts: 154 |
|
|||
|
I really can recommend reading the manga chapters for these past episodes as they have left a lot of stuff out. Specially Al's part was very important but probably get included somehow in the future. But it's a shame we will never see scenes such as Rem coming to help when Subaru was trying to protect Piscilla. Another scene would be Roswaal. In the anime he just looks completly shady smirking like that but in the manga we see him provoking Subaru which even leads to a short "fight" with Puck protecting Subaru. Overall the ceremony was kinda rushed too and in the manga we had more time for the candidates who were explaining their motives.
I know the original source is the LN but from what I see, the manga is closer to the LN than the anime is currently |
||||
|
||||
|
Juno016
Posts: 2420 |
|
|||
I think we agree on how we feel about it. Entitlement isn't really the monster of the story here, but it IS his over-dependence on it that drags the situation into its current position, and that's where he went wrong. He focused way too much on his side of the story that he didn't consider her feelings to be equal to his feelings. As for the solution to this problem, of course it wouldn't be so easy as either keeping or breaking the promise, but a lot of it has to do with his intention. If you pay attention, Emilia is surprised and disappointed that he broke the promise, but she gives him a chance to explain himself so they can communicate and she can reason as to why he may have been motivated to do so. Once she realizes it's because of his ego and not any other practical reason, her disappointment ends up justified. Couple this with the fact that she now knows he isn't considering her feelings, and it makes complete sense that she would lose her faith in him. It's not so simple as keeping or breaking the promise for the better result. I don't think any of us truly felt bad about him breaking the promise itself. With the right reason, even Emilia would be willing to look past it. What bothered me was that his reasoning and behavior about doing so was extremely self-serving. Even if he can't tell her about his powers, and subsequently, his fears about taking his eyes off of her, there are a lot of things he can do to gain her trust despite breaking their promise, such as admitting his mistakes, discussing his fears, showing an interest in what she has to say, and so on. Emilia is extremely perceptive. She knows he's faking his happy personality a lot of the time and she helps him cope quite willingly. She genuinely wants to know more about him, but he consistently shuts her out because he thinks she can't handle herself, or because he feels he needs to be her guardian and that it's his social role to be strong. She can understand this for the most part, but at this point, she's reached her limit of WANTING to understand. What he said planted doubt in her mind that she CAN communicate properly with him. On his side, his feelings are very justifiable. I don't question for one second that he's made the right decision most of the time. He's a heroic character. He wants the best for other people and that's admirable. But he's let it get to his head a bit too much simply because he's been assured up to this point that his decisions were the right ones. He doesn't even question breaking his promise with Emilia, despite the fact that this is his first time through this particular "loop" or chain of events and he has no proof that his fears are founded. Sure, we can understand why he would choose to follow her and we can root for his decision to matter when things get crazy and we realize his suspicions were right. But I find it very hard to believe that his behavior that accompanied his logic was truly warranted outside of simple ego. And that's the key point here that drives the conflict between Subaru and Emiliar--not just knowledge of events. Though that darkness preventing Subaru from being able to explain the most simple reason behind his feelings is most definitely problematic. Without that, this whole entire situation could've been avoided. But hey, what's the fun in that? Now there's reason for Subaru to question his ego and grow as a character. And I'm extremely excited (and nervous) to see how this plays out. |
||||
|
||||
|
cloud8100
Posts: 550 |
|
|||
|
Episode 13 was excellent in terms of characterisation but boy was it hard to watch. Subaru has to learn the lesson of his mistake the hard way but I could understand him getting increasingly frustrated to the point of that outburst at the end. He messed up but I still feel particularly bad for the guy. Hope to see him perhaps get on with Julius at some point in the future to really show how far he can develop. And because it would be nice. Well, considering the series and return by death power Subaru has, it ain't getting any better for him yet.
The awkwardness was so real this episode. Just like how real life goes sometimes. Last edited by cloud8100 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
Merxamers
 Posts: 720 |
|
|||
|
Theron's words mirrored my own thoughts on this episode; Subaru has indeed dug himself into a huge hole, and i have no idea how he's going to get himself out of it. This episode was difficult to watch at parts, in the melodramatic way that good anime can be.
I was reminded a bit of The World God Only Knows, where the protagonist seemed to constantly find himself in these kinds of holes, and yet would almost always find a way to get himself out. Rather than feeling cheap, I enjoyed wondering how he'd salvage a hopeless situation, and manage to do it anyway. I don't get the same feeling with this Re:Zero episode; i think the path to redemption is going to be a long one, where Subaru needs to pick up some self awareness. |
||||
|
||||
stilldemented
 Posts: 232 |
|
|||
|
Perhaps I have a twisted sense of amusement, but I found the scene between Subaru and Emelia cute in spite of all the ugly emotions on display.
Subaru and Emelia both have the same hiccup: a white knight complex. I don't really like using that language, but I'll roll with it. It's easy to see that their actions is episode 13 are for the benefit of the other. Little do either of them know that said actions taken for the other's sake do nothing but cause unneeded stress. And it makes sense on both sides. Emelia doesn't understand why Subaru is so supportive of her. He's picking fights with anyone who would denounce her and recklessly putting his life in danger for her with little to no reason. Subaru didn't need to cause such a scene. Subaru didn't need to pick a fight with a knight for her honor. Subaru just needs to be her friend, but he can't even keep a simple promise. It's upsetting. So if he's going to keep getting himself hurt by interfering in her business, then the best thing she feels she can do for him is set him free from the burden. Subaru has a more complex set of circumstances. He's endured several mind-shattering horrors that have made him a nervous wreck. But he has the power to prevent it and he isn't willing to stand down and be a bystander to inevitable tragedy. He's developed an unhealthy paranoia that this world has nothing better to do than torment him. He has long since suffered enough, but he holds onto the hope that as long as things turn out okay it will all be worth it. His ability has caused him to take for granted the fact that actions have consequences. In order to prevent the next inevitable, unforeseeable tragedy, he ends up creating the tragedy. And he isn't prepared to handle it because he's already a mess. His body is beaten. His pride in tatters. His mind unstable. And now, Emelia is taking away the only thing he has left. His purpose. I would say that it is true that Subaru feels a little entitled to compensation for his hardships, but he has never demanded much from Emelia. Her name. A date. Some very innocuous requests. I think that's something that people should keep in mind. Even as she's turning her back on him, his hysteric demand is for nothing more than a little gratitude from her for everything he has suffered on her behalf. Subaru hasn't revealed himself as any sort of monster hidden in plain sight. He's just a kid saying all the wrong things in a hysteric fit of anger and desperation to guilt trip Emelia from making, what he believes to be, a very fatal mistake. It doesn't work for obvious reasons and now we're left in suspense as Subaru's worst fears are a consequence of his own actions. Mistakes have been made. Til next time! - That scene has a lot to digest, but that puts a decent dent in it. I love both Subaru and Emelia. This little lover's spat made up for the other material that, while interesting, moved at too quick a pace and transitioned in awkward fashion, such as when the wild Rom appeared and what not. It's just a little amusing that Subaru and Emelia both hurt one another in an attempt to save one another from themselves. Miscommunication at its finest. Sure, Satella didn't make it any easier, but it's still Subaru's whoopsie to mend. And it's the sort of thing that I doubt will be mended by something as simple as a checkpoint restart. 
Great scene.
Edit: Oh. Theron's review is up now. Once again, pretty much my take away from the episode. 
Last edited by stilldemented on Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
Iron Maw
Posts: 505 |
|
|||
I can understand how it might come off that way since the anime pretty much short speeches every other candidate outside Emilia and Felt. That said it wasn't the intent of that scene, but time constraints had to force WF's hand on that one. While some ideologies displayed are fairly extreme they actualky surprising have their own merits. If you want to get a better handle and overviews on the other candidates positions read Chapter 5 and up to about half chapter 6 of the manga that covers the 3rd arc called Re:Zero The Truth of Zero. That said the manga adaptation itself isn't perfect as missing some details from LN that anime ironically covered. So having viewed both sources would give a complete of that scene.
That exact reason why I'm not worried about that particular plot. That is kind of thing that would be rearranged. Last edited by Iron Maw on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:28 pm; edited 6 times in total |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group