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NEWS: Atlus 'Looks Into' Releasing Japanese Voice Track as DLC for Persona 5


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Manwards



Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 194
Location: Leicester, England
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:19 am Reply with quote
I only watch anime in the original language - and I do the same for any foreign media, whether it's Spanish, or German, or Korean, or whatever - so this would be a huge plus for me. The dub of Persona 4 was great, but for Japanese characters in a Japanese setting it just sounds more natural and immersive to me to have them speak their own language. The fact that I'm British is probably a factor too: some American accents sound just as foreign to me as Japanese words.

Having more options is never a bad thing. There's no downside to having a choice of languages. And I'd happily pay for the privilege, to offset the licensing cost.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:34 am Reply with quote
EricJ2 wrote:

IIRC, it was a guest cameo by Tokio, which also explains why the first-season OP also had to be scrapped from the US release, and references to T**** had to be removed from all subs and Japanese audio as well.

Thus bringing it back to the topic at hand: Insanely greedy/stickler Japanese music and artist rights.
You can argue fan-devotion and preservation-ethics all you like, but never stand between a Japanese corporation and its ownership money.

However there isn't a Tokio situation here. Tokio is not a voice actor but a boy band/Johnny's group. Johnny's is known for being extremely strict in the matter of controling its content, so there's no surprise that Kodocha's first OP had to be weeked (which I find a blessing, 7 O'clock news is an awful song).

There is no similar situation here. There's no member of Johnny's in P5 or any Johnny's performance. All the announced talent working on P5 have had many of the works already distributed over here with the Japanese audio in tact. Hanazawa? Sugita? Satou? Aoi? They're all immensely popular seiyuu.
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Nonaka Machine Gun B



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:59 am Reply with quote
It's funny how dub enthusiasts keep screaming "HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BOTHER YOU?" when they would react in a similar fashion if the opposite was happening. It's got nothing to do with "bad" or "good," it's all "original" or "not original." Let's recall all Seinfeld DVDs and make sure Italian is the only language option. That's essentially what is happening here.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:35 am Reply with quote
Sango chan wrote:
It was obvious from the start that P5 was going to be English dub only. I really don't have that much of a problem with P3 and P4's english dubs. except a couple of voices here and there. Fuuka's does kinda irk me a bit, but is still tolerable enough.

Persona 4 Arena did have a dual audio. Arena 2 also has dual audio but for the fighting portion only unfortunately. I really don't like Labby's english voice. The same with Sho. love vic, but hate sho's voice he did. The Dvd's had the Dual audio too. I have no clue why Atlus japan has such a fear with reverse importation. it's just ridiculous.


It says right in the translated text that Labrys has an offbeat-wisecracking Kansai accent (Chie even thinks it's cool!), but the English dub localizes the "funny accent" into a Brooklyn accent that makes her sound like Harley Quinn.
Well, at least it's not another darn Southern accent this time, or Kero's surfer-dude voice from Cardcaptors.

And which would be a fighting-words issue if it WAS an anime, but with games, it's just not the main reason you're tuning in to watch. It's only the last generation or so that's actually had games with voices, instead of caption text.

I don't mind language options, and I'm still waiting for DLC subtitles on the first Project Diva, but if it doesn't affect the gameplay, it's still a frill, as opposed to the actual character creation and story of an anime. I don't tune into a game like I do an episode of Seinfeld.
(Well, I don't tune into Seinfeld either, I'm just using the metaphor.)

Megiddo wrote:
EricJ2 wrote:
Thus bringing it back to the topic at hand: Insanely greedy/stickler Japanese music and artist rights.
You can argue fan-devotion and preservation-ethics all you like, but never stand between a Japanese corporation and its ownership money.

There is no similar situation here. There's no member of Johnny's in P5 or any Johnny's performance. All the announced talent working on P5 have had many of the works already distributed over here with the Japanese audio in tact. Hanazawa? Sugita? Satou? Aoi? They're all immensely popular seiyuu.


No, the only thing similar is that they all made voice tracks that have to be negotiated, or Japanese lawyers will go into attack mode...To quote the words of Moe Howard, "Oh, sue-perstitious, eh?"

[Edit]: removed swipe at other posters. Errinundra.
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JDude042



Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:48 am Reply with quote
Nonaka Machine Gun B wrote:
It's funny how dub enthusiasts keep screaming "HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BOTHER YOU?" when they would react in a similar fashion if the opposite was happening. It's got nothing to do with "bad" or "good," it's all "original" or "not original." Let's recall all Seinfeld DVDs and make sure Italian is the only language option. That's essentially what is happening here.


Yea I think it's silly personally. Why are the people who aren't concerned about it being dub only so bothered by the people who want the inclusion of the original Japanese audio and are so passionate about it to the point that it makes or breaks it for them? As if how someone else chooses to enjoy their entertainment is some sort of life threatening hindrance for another person. I certainly don't go around forcing English dub fans that their way of enjoying their entertainment is in some way wrong or abnormal. I guess some people just plain and flat out like to argue, get riled up by other people's opinions when it doesn't match their own way of thinking, or they're just very bull-headed when it comes to their hobbies.
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MCAL



Joined: 11 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:12 pm Reply with quote
https://twitter.com/HProtagonista

Someone who works with localization (XSeed to be precise) gave quite a detailed explanation on why Dual Audio might not happen.

So yes contrary to what most people think, getting Dual Audio is not as easy as brushing your teeth.
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:37 pm Reply with quote
MCAL wrote:
https://twitter.com/HProtagonista

Someone who works with localization (XSeed to be precise) gave quite a detailed explanation on why Dual Audio might not happen.

So yes contrary to what most people think, getting Dual Audio is not as easy as brushing your teeth.

Nobody is arguing that licensing the original audio isn't easy. Nothing is. Translating the text is hard. Adapting the engine to a new set of characters is hard. Dealing with rating boards is hard. Distributing physical copies is hard. Publicizing a game is hard. Getting to localize a different company's game at all is hard.
But just because it's hard it doesn't mean it can be skipped.

I can understand and forgive a case where licensing goes from hard to unfeasible. But with Atlus it's a systematic thing. I just am not buying that Atlus is oh-so-unlucky that they always ALWAYS stumble upon the rare set of circumstances that make voice licensing outright impossible.
DA has a lot of recurrent challenges, but one recurrent problem. One recurrent insurmountable problem. And that problem is Atlus policies.


(As an addendum, as a non-English native speaker, when I see sales being lost because there aren't voices in the speaker's language -which I perfectly believe is something that happens- it feels pretty weird. Over here, we get texts in English-only as often as translated to our language(s) and extremely rarely do we get voices that aren't just English and/or Japanese. And we might complain, but that very rarely translates into lost sales. Just thought this might be a nice perspective to consider)
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belvadeer





PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:49 pm Reply with quote
JDude042 wrote:
I certainly don't go around forcing English dub fans that their way of enjoying their entertainment is in some way wrong or abnormal.


JDude, you'd be quite surprised, but there are actual types like that out there. Not saying they are legion or anything, but there are some sub purists that go around pushing their "Japanese only!" beliefs on English dub watchers. It was quite a few years ago, but I've seen them at my college, university and even at a couple of anime cons. I think the problem with the whole subs vs. dubs phenomenon is that it takes all kinds.

Anyway, let's let the heat in this topic die down; it's made me want to go out for ice cream.
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archyteckie08



Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 21
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:19 pm Reply with quote
JDude042 wrote:
theNightster wrote:
so you're going to skip out on what may be a really good game? and it's over something minor like the lack of Japanese voice track?


I think you need the try to understand the mindset of someone who is not only an anime fan, but a gamer as well. One who probably and strongly prefers watching anime in Japanese, wanting to buy a heavily anime-inspired game of Japanese origin, and expects a Japanese audio option. It's not like this hasn't become more common these days with other anime-inspired games like Disgaea, BlazBlue, and what not getting dual audio options. It only makes sense, but I guess either the US or Japanese companies involved are either stuck in their ways, living in the past, or just being outright stingy.

yurigasaki wrote:
i am honestly so confused as to why people are so indignant about the lack of a japanese voice track (in a game series that has never, in the games I've played, featured one) that they're willing to boycott a perfectly good game.


Mind you back in the days of the PS2, I went ahead and played through Tales of the Abyss, despite the fact that I would have much preferred to have played it with the Japanese audio, but I definitely did enjoy it and wasn't too hard pressed about it being dub only. Nowadays though with the advent of Bluray and less technical limitations, not to mention it becoming more common for dual audio games, I think it should be the standard practice for localization of Japanese RPGs to include the original audio in its English release, the same way the anime industry handles it. It's just disappointing when part of the fandom can't get what it wants.

yurigasaki wrote:
then here's a simple solution: learn japanese.


While that would be a nice advantage to have, not everyone has the time or patience (or wants to) go through the extraneous trouble of learning how to read a new language. Something like that takes an extreme amount of patience and dedication, and doesn't happen overnight. It can take years to master a new language. It would make more sense for a company who is releasing a heavily anime-inspired Japanese video game into English to want to follow standard protocol and at least try and release a game with dual-audio options if possible.

Well at least Atlus has came out and said that they're aware of the demand and are going to try. It'll be interesting to hear a follow-up on this and their excuse if the deal is a no-go.


Learning Japanese isn't any harder than mastering any other skills.People who love anime spend a huge amount of time and money devoted to it. Some of them get really involved to the point of running a convention, clubs, creating fan fiction, or moderating an online forum which requires an extreme amount of dedication and knowledge to pull off. If they took their energy for anime and transferred it to studying Japanese, they could learn it reasonably well.

Anyhow, I know Japanese pretty well. I can understand it by ear. Played Tales of and Persona series in English/Japanese, found the voice acting to be equal in quality. I watched the Person 5 trailer and the voice acting is all teenage tropes (as they were in the other Persona games). It's so easy to find voice actors in LA who can do a a generic "teenager voice". So making Persona 5 a dual track isn't really worth the effort. Not only that but if there was an "unique voice" that any of the characters had, an American voice actor (whose talented) can mimic that "sound" and translate it into English (as they are trained to interpret voices of any kind). If an American dub features poor voice acting, its not because American voice actors can't do it but that the studio couldn't afford to hire good voice actors. The same problem happens in Japan. Cheaply produced games and anime tend to have terrible voice actors.

Anyhow, it took me about 5 years to hear Japanese by ear. After completing 2.5 years of Japanese grammar & Kanji study, I had to train my ears to hear Japanese as good as I could read it. This meant getting the Japanese transcripts (mostly by asking a Japanese person on transcribe them for me) to audio dramas/anime/live action shows/radio shows and listening to them everyday until I could "hear" the transcript. Did this consistently for 2 1/2 years and listened to a variety of audio recordings from various genres, performers of various ages, vocal styles, and genders . So I think I know a thing or two about the quality of Japanese voice acting.

After listening to a lot of Japanese voice actors, I can tell you that Japanese voice acting in video games and anime are not very good. Due to the limited budgets that gaming/anime project operated on, very few of them can afford great voice actors. So anime/video game voice acting is generally an outlet for low ranking idols and idol rejects. Voice Actors, who mainly do anime/video games, will work for cheap to help raise their profile. There is a "celebrity culture" in anime character voice industry. Most anime voice actors are known more for their "personalities" (that have been heavily marketed and shaped by their agencies) than their ability at voice acting. So "voice acting" training in Japan is less about increasing your vocal range (to play a variety of characters) but more about doing a specific voice (that fits into one common Japanese trope). Voice actors best work is saved for audio dramas and live performances ( as either a Q&A live show or live script reading with other voice actors) where they can get paid extremely well.

For example, the guys who voice Izaya & Shizuo in Durarara are Japan's most popular voice actors. They also host a popular radio show, tour the country with their stage shows/music performances, and are heavily marketed in Japan. While their voices are pleasing, they have an extremely limited range and are repeatedly type cast. Not to mention, compared to non-idol singers in Japan their singing voice are extremely average. They do their voice work for low pay (like all voice actors do) because their anime work helps "sell" their higher paying work as radio show hosts, ,merchandise, audio dramas, Live performance DVDS, convention appearances, music cds, books, and spokesperson deals. Like all voice actors, their anime performances are very underwhelming but their live action stage shows or live script readings (at conventions) are pretty entertaining.

Outside of Disney movies, American voice acting industry is not influenced by celebrity culture. It's influenced by an actor's ability. If you compare the English voice actors of Durarara to the Japanese ones mentioned above, you'll find they have more vocal range, emotive-ness, and voice flexibility. Which is funny because the English actors aren't even the highest paid voice actors in the American voice artist industry, while the Japanese ones are. So I find it pretty comical, when people (who don't know Japanese well and/or don't understand good voice acting) say Japanese voice acting is "better" than English. This very rarely is true. Most of the time, they are pretty equal.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:59 pm Reply with quote
archyteckie08 wrote:
...Outside of Disney movies, American voice acting industry is not influenced by celebrity culture. It's influenced by an actor's ability. If you compare the English voice actors of Durarara to the Japanese ones mentioned above, you'll find they have more vocal range, emotive-ness, and voice flexibility. Which is funny because the English actors aren't even the highest paid voice actors in the American voice artist industry, while the Japanese ones are. So I find it pretty comical, when people (who don't know Japanese well and/or don't understand good voice acting) say Japanese voice acting is "better" than English. This very rarely is true. Most of the time, they are pretty equal.

This, as well as all of your other points, are the best ones I've read in this thread! Very Happy
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belvadeer





PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:18 pm Reply with quote
Mr. Oshawott wrote:
This, as well as all of your other points, are the best ones I've read in this thread! Very Happy


Agreed. I've been saying this for years myself. No one ever shows proof that what they're hearing in another language is actually good acting at all. You have to know the language inside and out to understand the nuances and styles of how things are spoken. Just because a Spanish drama sounds sexy to your ears doesn't mean the actors are portraying their characters that well.


Last edited by belvadeer on Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:27 pm Reply with quote
archyteckie08 wrote:
Outside of Disney movies, American voice acting industry is not influenced by celebrity culture. It's influenced by an actor's ability.


Voice acting in American animation is pretty much influenced by everything but acting ability solely because the medium isn't seen as worthwhile in the West. It's not just limited to Disney movies, most animated movies don't cast voice actors, they cast Hollywood actors for the sole purpose getting parents into the theaters. They even go so far as to model of the characters after the actors themselves a lot of the time. Television can't afford Hollywood budgets, but most of the time the voice actors chosen are due to nepotism like creators themselves voicing characters (Clarence), family members (Adventure Time), or B list celebrities (Steven Universe), where it's their first role in voice acting so it can't be about talent if they never did it before. You are correct in that Disney cartoons are commonly voiced by their live-action television stars, but it happens across all networks as well.

Video games are getting more like Hollywood though, especially to the point of modeling characters after voice actors thanks to mocap.

You don't need to understand a language to judge acting ability, I know very little French but I can tell a good french performance from a bad one. Acting is pretty universal.
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Somewhere



Joined: 27 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 7:57 pm Reply with quote
Yuvelir wrote:
(As an addendum, as a non-English native speaker, when I see sales being lost because there aren't voices in the speaker's language -which I perfectly believe is something that happens- it feels pretty weird. Over here, we get texts in English-only as often as translated to our language(s) and extremely rarely do we get voices that aren't just English and/or Japanese. And we might complain, but that very rarely translates into lost sales. Just thought this might be a nice perspective to consider)


Something I think about that leads to this sort of NEEDS THIS-ONE-SPECIFIC LANGUAGE furor one sees out of the US is the intersection of two things:
1. American exceptionalism. The relevance here is it leading to an inflated ego we as Americans have at various levels. Hence you end up seeing more 'My way or the highway' style thinking from us. Basically, we can be quite privileged. And fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your viewpoint, not a lot has happened in living memory to keep that mentality in check (we owe quite a bit to our incredibly advantageous geographic location).

2. The US as a whole is extraordinarily monolingual. The dominant language from the start of the US's time was English. The current dominant language in global business is English, so there was never really a need for the country as a whole to even make a token attempt to pick up another language. Sure, a fair amount of people will still have their family/ancestral languages, but those are typically for usage among family and/or certain groups. By and large, English is really the only language you can reliably assume the 'average American' to be meaningfully exposed to.

So if you combine the two, I think that you can see why there would be a fair amount of people in the US that need English audio.
That takes care of the side of the coin that's ENGLISH-DUB-OR-BUST. For the ORIGINAL-AUDIO-OR-BUST side.... ehhh, 2 doesn't seem to apply as much, so I lean heavier on 1 for that one. Sometimes I just can't think of much reason beyond screaming privileged brat.
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Chrno2



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Will this be a thing? I'd like to see this happen with a lot of games. But this is nice news.
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Mr. Oshawott



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:27 pm Reply with quote
Chrno2 wrote:
Will this be a thing? I'd like to see this happen with a lot of games. But this is nice news.

I think it all depends on the talent agencies over in Japan if Japanese audio as DLC and, perhaps eventually, dual audio for Atlus titles will ever become a common sight...
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