Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan Plans to Toughen Copyright Law on Downloads
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
halo
Posts: 356 |
|
|||||||
|
I'd like to point out it's not 100% legal to import DVDs (and CDs) since many are licensed solely for the country or region. I'm not entirely sure but I think under the DMCA it's also technically illegal to circumvent region restrictions on DVD players so your region free players probably aren't 100% legal either.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||
"witch hunt:[so named in allusion to persecutions of personsalleged to be witches] an investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover disloyalty, subversive political activity, etc. usually conducted with much publicity & often relying upon inconclusive evidence & capitalizing on public fear of unpopular opinions" You state they are overstating the situation, but then attack me for it. So is the thing with Odex a holocaust? A kangaroo court? Or do they have actual evidence as opposed to "inconclusive evidence"? To suggest what Japan is trying to do is a witch hunt also suggests they will be proceeding on that same "inconclusive evidence", that they won't have some sort of actual proof of the download. I said--
There is nothing in the article to suggest this will be an actual witch hunt with cops illegally searching people's houses based on something as thin as one person's accusation the person is a downloader. I'm sure they will have all the proper "paper trails" (computer trails)--court hearings aren't cheap. I can't tell you how many of my clients pick up new charges only to see the DA refuse to file on them over evidence issues (Often our guys have drugs on them & throw them on the ground, but the officer didn't clearly see what was thrown & where it landed, so "That's not mine, officer" works sometimes if visability is poor such as at night. Or maybe there are drugs in the car, but 4 people in the car-who do they belong to?) Or, since the DA has a year to file, sometimes they wait all that time to see if they can make a more solid case. I'm sure Japanese attourney's aren't all that different from ours--they want a good win record so prosecuting flimsy cases doesn't look good on their record unless they have some sort of ace to pull off a win for the side they are working. Would you hire an attourney who loses more cases than he wins if your freedom's on the line? So calling this a witch hunt is just like comparing it to Nazi Germany--downloaders may feel like martyrs, but they aren't As for the argument "But I want to see "This incredibly good but unlicensed anime"--you still have no right to it. Life sucks. Say there's a Japanese fan of Johnny Depp, but Jump Street was never released there (though I'm sure it probably was). Just because some company in your country never licensed it still doesn't mean you can download episodes just because people have. Count your blessing that you can do it now, but if they finally manage to block all the holes in the fence, you can't really curse them for trying to keep their animals on their own property for their own use. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
ladholyman
 Posts: 56 |
|
|||||||
|
Sorry guys, but this won't put a dent on fansubbing.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Pretty_Kitty84
Posts: 8 Location: Maryland |
|
|||||||
|
Yay this just tuning in, long time reader, rare poster....
Honestly people just need to get over themselves. If you don't download fansubs, good for you. Let's all give you a pat on the back for being so perfect and not breaking the law.  If you do download fansubs also good for you, you are a horrible person and according to certain people you're going to H-E-double hockey sticks.
Gosh, does that sum up this debate? What is the point of continually going on with the same arguments over and over about the same issue. No matter how you spin it people who download are not going to stop. That's evident by the fact that the US has the RIAA over here tossing out fines left and right, but guess what people STILL haven't stopped downloading. They just keep finding better ways to not get caught. No amount of you preaching, and pointing fingers is going to change that fact. Can't we just have a discussion about fansubs without people jumping on their soap boxes? I am neither for nor against fansubs I'm just tired of reading the same stuff over and over by the same people. Move on, debate something else please. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
brightredglow
 Posts: 35 |
|
|||||||
Much thanks for the info! That takes a bit of the sting off the Geneon news. I rather like the idea of the smaller companies like RightStuf picking up these series and packaging without a dub. Lamune, for example, doesn't really need to be dubbed. Comic Party Revolution was fine in its subtitled format as well. Besides (not to sound like a purist or anything) but some series just sound better in Japanese. Not all mind you as FMA, Cowboy Bebop, even Naruto, to name just a few, have English dubs that I like, but some series don't require a dub and if it gets it to the street release faster than I'm all for it. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
starcade
Posts: 204 |
|
|||||||
That may be true, but they can't think they aren't taking a bath on this side of the Pacific as well -- and that they are finally taking the matter seriously to the point that they aren't just going to sit on the sidelines.
Maybe, but I also see this (and the proposed cataloging of copyrighted material in Japan) as a matter of that The Big Crackdown is coming -- I mean, look at how they jumped to Odex's defense over in Singapore, and it would seem that they have a lot less to lose over there than here.
No, in fact quite the opposite. And the reason I say what I'm saying is that I truly believe the vast over-explosion of titles and the like are because the industry makes that very assumption -- licensing far too many titles that they think will sell, but won't (as well as at far too much licensing money).
What I am really beginning to wonder (given present events on both sides of the Pacific) -- and I speculate that it's true -- is that those people make up a large portion of the anime fanbase. I mean, I've been talking to at least one convention organizer who's basically saying that he (if he can even get this year's con of his up here off at all!) is questioning the need for a screening room -- and he's not alone. You're right that they won't buy -- but the companies have spent far too much time and money believing that they will. As I said to another person in this thread, it's a whole new ball game once that changes. Goodbye to anything below a solid B-level title at best. And then what companies might be able to survive the cutback?? To the other person asking if I'd eat my words if the US industry was still around in a year: The only question is the timing... How long might they try to hold on?? But this is a very rapidly emerging story, and I think the slide will be rather quick -- but how long will they hold it off? |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Phenie
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||
|
In many countries, downloading of copyrighted material has been illegal for ages, at least in my country, and I'm sure in most others.
The fact is, the government, (unless you're in some communist community) is not going to monitor everything everyone downloads, and thus peer-2-peer programs such as Share are not near any end in their life in my eyes, and thus we will see anime raws coming though for a long time to come. Another point is, if uploading was illegal in the first place, how did we manage to get the raws? someone had to have uploaded it at some stage, and no one stopped them. I will admit that the Japanese are a lot more conscious of law than most countries though, so it could play out completely different.... but I guess time will tell. Either way, (correct me if I'm wrong) this law still has to be accepted, and I'm pretty sure there will be some opposition.... not to mention I'm sure it takes some time to get a law changed. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
ichido reichan
|
|
|||||||
|
For the guy that mentioned Romeoxjuliet, I have to post a sidenote that the japanese company paid "with their own money" a trip to the anime expo to expose themselves this title to audiences and gave away freebies and the like, the show was completely in japanese but they were talking to the audience that the show was great and to create buz around american companies to get licensed.....
Japan IS MAKING the effort to get their titles out of japan.... I have to scanlate my favorite manga title because the industry laughs at you when your title is not hyper popular and they dont want to license it. Slam dunk...Hokuto no ken....Tenchi wo kurau....Romance of the three kingdoms.... How many quality titles ignored in favor of manwa and the yaoi crap |
||||||||
|
Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
|
|||||||
VIZ has licensed Slam Dunk. Hokuto No Ken was released here twice- and got cancelled both times due to low sales [once when VIZ was still building the domestic manga audience in the mid 90's, another when Raijin tanked due to overestimating the manga market here]. Though it still has a following and a chance. If you want more stuff like Fist of the Northstar, then buy FOTNS merchandise, anime, and buy manga thgat's similar to FOTNS [like say, most of Dark Horse's seinen output. Or the more obscure Shonen Jump titles like Jojo. Or Golgo 13] I'ts not that this stuff is getting ignored. It's that it takes time. Why does no one have any patience [or just buy the cheap, cheeeeeeeeeappppppp CHEAP japanese tankobon from import sites? Or used for even cheaper?] Yaoi sells, that's why it's licensed [pervy fangirl horde is sadly bigger then violent manga fan horde  I miss you SuperMangaBlast], and with Manwha, it sells because what's licensed is often in the same genre of manga that is the dominant seller- Shojo. [a lot of manly manwha tends to get overlooked to]
I don't think we'll see a Seinen revolution until there's a larger crop of older manga fans who want that sort of material, though until then, we'll still be getting a fair bit. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||
Yeah, you found a definition that defines it as such. I guess that means that any time someone uses the word witch hunt, that must be what they mean. Even if you want to say that they're using the word incorrectly so we should be going by that definition, its only in allusion to persecutions of persons alleged to be witches. Claiming that by calling this a witch hunt they are comparing this to: "being dropped from a ladder with a rope tied to one's one's hands tied behind one's back with the purpose of dislocating one's shoulders to force one to admit to beinga witch. Thunbscrews, iron maidens" is just flat out ridiculous. Nobody is saying that. So if you want to say that it isnt a witch hunt because it wont be based on illegal or inconclusive evidence, fine. I agree with you. However, don't go and act like they're comparing it to a real witch hunt. Calling it a witchhunt is ridiculous, but cant you point that out witohut making an equally ridiculous assumption? |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||||||
You know, I don't agree with any of your particular points of view on this matter, but I just happen to wonder if the weak industry could sustain not having downloads either? I don't know that we could say it could. I don't know that downloads make the industry weaker. It's really a difficult think to ascertain. It's certainly possible that they do, I don't deny that there is a mentality among some people that they aren't going to pay for anything. But do you think this mentality exists because downloads are available for free, or that downloads exist in part because of this mentality? It's interesting because what exactly is in it for those who provide downloads do you think? There is (very very limited) advertising revenue perhaps, but in many cases they aren't getting that either, and the threats to them are potentially very high. It seems to me that the reason people do these things is because it's almost demanded by the fact such things are copyable. It seems that once the technology existed people "had" to use it, and some seem to do this despite the fact that they may even pronounce their own activities to be immoral (I actually find a lot of very contradictory sorts in these communities. I've had some of the largest arguments over the morality of copying with people who regularly break their own morality lol). I tend to think that those who are doing this wouldn't be of benefit to the industry even if the possibility to download didn't exist. They are only interested because it's "there." I really really doubt that the group who buys suddenly develops into being the sort who downloads and won't buy anything. On the other hand, I can see those who get penalized for downloading who also happen to buy getting seriously angry and not buying anything. So I think they are better off leaving the situation alone. Of course they probably won't, because they want to force others to respect the rights they bought with lobbyists, lawyers, etc. Like I said before, I really think those people are the only ones who make anything out of this war. Those who protect their rights and those who get penalized harshly for downloading/uploading are both losers. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||
|
Hold up a sec. I moreso think fansubs are good for the Anime fanbase, not the industry. Fansubs allow people who normally couldn't/wouldn't buy Anime to get it. This majorly increases the size of the fanbase as well as helps get people into Anime by letting them try it for free and hopefully later actually buy. (Im not talking about sampling a few episodes here, but rather larger scale. People see a few series fansubbed, decide the like it and are willing to actually buy some Anime.) So, yeah I do think it can help the industry, but mainly it helps the fanbase which in my oppinion is equally important.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
nemuiwanko
Posts: 3 |
|
|||||||
|
Maybe rentanime.com will finally get more traffic o_o but I am curious to the actual amount of people who download compared to buy. Wonder if there are polls or statistics out there I can take a look at.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Vuwazy
Posts: 208 |
|
|||||||
|
I don't know how much this new law will come through. But I will keep my attention on what this could change.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
|
|||||||
I think you are right, but I think the question of others isn't "does this happen" but "does this outweigh the amount of formerly paying customers who now are downloaders." Personally, for me there is no question that what we have now is better for the industry (and yes, of course the fanbase too), but others disagree strongly based on some of the mentality a lot of the downloaders have that you mention. But, do those downloaders really attract people who are used to buying and spending money on anime to their camp? And what do these former buyers start spending money on? |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group