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NEWS: Fire Emblem Fates RPG's Western Release Will Not Have 'Petting' Feature

Do you mean, then, that it's specific to anime, manga, and video games? (I'm not trying to make any snide comments our anything like that, but as someone who hangs around forums about older media, I'm genuinely curious. It feels weird to me to have such different attitudes about feminism at a place like ANN compared to something like IMDb or Tilt Forums.)

Color me confused, but I thought it wasn't until FE:Awakening that Nintendo started catering to otaku/fujoshi, mainly because the series was floundering and on the verge of cancellation. From what I've seen it's the older hardcore fans of the series that complain about these otaku elements having been introduced in the first place (like Awakening's marriage system) because it detracts from the venerability of an otherwise solid political/tactical series. Considering FE is getting a crossover with Shin Megami Tensei, I'm pretty sure Nintendo doesn't consider it a kid's series anymore, and has revived the series with a hard "otaku-leaning" bent now because it's proven to be a profitable blue ocean strategy.

Well, what puzzles me is why it's specific to certain media but not others.

I didn't make a list, I was just commenting on the games that ikillchicken had already mentioned. And I'm surprised you think those games are obscure titles, since they're critical darlings and have been reviewed and discussed fervently in the gaming community over the past few months (next you're going to tell me that you've never heard of FNAF). These games aren't AAA titles sure, but indie gaming has become a big scene in recent years, and I think anyone who has a pulse on Western gaming should have heard of those titles by now, so it makes me wonder how unfamiliar with the Western gaming community otaku actually might be.

So you've only ever played SNES RPGs? If you go back to the early 90's, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest had a number of entries visually similar to Undertale. And for a SNES fan, I'm surprised you don't appreciate Undertale's spiritual similarities to games like Earthbound and the Mother series. FWIW, Undertale is critically acclaimed for how it refreshingly turns traditional RPG mechanics/conventions on their head, in inventive, amusing and sometimes moving ways (it sounds like you have only a vague familiarity with the game if you're bizarrely criticizing it for not having skills or magic).

The effect of this, though, was that the game gained new popularity far beyond anything it had before. And yes, that means a lot of the old fans are still reeling at the "new" Fire Emblem with it's emphasis and shipping and marriage and it's newer more anime style art/etc.

Anime is a Japanese product and, as much as fans like to insist otherwise, Japan is actually not very progressive when it comes to gender issues

Mad_Scientist wrote:

The effect of this, though, was that the game gained new popularity far beyond anything it had before. And yes, that means a lot of the old fans are still reeling at the "new" Fire Emblem with it's emphasis and shipping and marriage and it's newer more anime style art/etc.

Fire Emblem has always had anime art. It's just in the 90s it had 90s anime art like Phantasy Star and Shining Force. That complaint seems one born in ignorance.

It's not limited to just those mediums. It's been that way for the last couple years. South Park wouldn't have done an entire season mocking politically correct culture if it was just some video game or anime thing. You generally see it in the news all the time. Whether it's complaining about police killing minorities, safe spaces at colleges, arresting people over Facebook posts, or complaining about the Oscars not having any black people being nominated, there's been a lot of backlash from both sides. I've seen people refuse to identify as feminist because due to it. Video games is just one part of it. Anyone who says it's only found in video game communities probably doesn't read the news or follow current events very much, no offense.

Was this directed at me? I kinda think I elaborated on why this is in my last post already. Although I should add that at the end of the day, it really isn't specific to certain mediums. For pretty much any medium there are plenty of angry nerds who are outraged at all things progressive. (Just look at the recent angst over Star Wars). It's just more pronounced in gaming because of the things I mentioned in my last post. Or perhaps you're referring to why it is also so pronounced in anime here. If that's the case, I think probably the single biggest reason is just that there's an overwhelming crossover between gamers (especially of the sort that rage about feminism) and anime fans. Although, I think also some of the things that are true of gaming are true of anime fans as well. Anime is a Japanese product and, as much as fans like to insist otherwise, Japan is actually not very progressive when it comes to gender issues. Hence, you still see a lot of stuff that really doesn't fly anymore elsewhere. Also, because anime is a very niche product in the west, it really hasn't traditionally been subject to the kind of cultural critique that other media gets. It's probably not as bad as gaming, but definitely this can translate to the same kind of person who is really invested in a very regressive status quo and freaks out at even the softest of feminist criticism.

For pretty much any medium there are plenty of angry nerds who are outraged at all things progressive.

Fine I get that you don't like moe/otaku pandering shi*. What about those that do? Are you going to say tough shi*and just get over it? That's a very cynical way of looking at things In my opinion. I'm getting sick and tired of NoA deciding what's okay for me to play.

So because you don't like otaku-pandering content, you have no problem with Nintendo censoring stuff so that the ones who do like it can't enjoy it?

Imagine if this was about Nintendo removing the same-sex marriage feature, and I could easily use the "A lot of people don't like same-sex marriage... This was a business decision by Nintendo, this kind of outrage is unwarranted" argument.

You would be singing such a different tune if that were the case, even though it could have happened for the exact same reasons.

Were those old-school strategy RPG fans once large in number? I'm actually wondering about the popularity of Fire Emblem over the years, as there had to have been a large chunk of them when the series first came out to keep going until Awakening.

I don't really care about what critics say or value their opinions. Maybe those that hang on their every word might be in the know but I'm willing to bet if you go up to any bro gamer in Gamestop, they wont know what most of those games are.

I compared Undertale to SNES era because it's clearly emulating a 16-bit style. And I criticized it as an RPG because you said it's 'more JRPG than JRPGs are these days' so I explained why I disagree on it being like games from the 90s. Now you're saying it's not supposed to be judged as an RPG? I'm confused.

That's a question I ask myself a lot. It's sort of a long story but the short-ish version I would say is this: Videogames are a wonderful medium but at the same time, as a very young medium and one marketed at least historically at mostly puberty age boys, videogames sorta became a last refuge for a lot of the really regressive, sexist crap that other mediums have at least started to move away from. At the same time, gaming also appeals most heavily to a certain type of person seeking escapism and power fantasy. There's nothing wrong with that in healthy doses but for certain people, this give rise to a tendency to massively internalize games as part of their identity and thus a part of themselves rather than an external creation. Actually, that's a problem with nerds and media in general but it is especially pronounced among gamers. Add to that years of games actually being unduly criticized and attemptedly censored (in the true sense) on the basis of flimsy information and preconceptions about them being children's toys by idiots who couldn't tell a controller from a console, and you had a powder keg.

Then someone lit a match. Well, not really. All that happened was that games started to grow up just a tiny bit. Some players started to apply really just the same basic critical scrutiny that every other medium gets (like basic feminist critique for instance). That really didn't go over well with the kind of gamers I mentioned earlier though. These people lashed out at anyone at all critical of any aspect of games and have basically just been a giant, insufferable ball of self-perpetuating hate ever since. As they've gotten more and more desperate the narrative has become increasingly absurd. The worst ones now basically live in a bubble of protective delusion where all criticism is censorship, all critics are not real gamers, criticisms of sexism are criticisms of sex, basic decency is "political correctness", and all progressive positions are "an agenda" while affirmations of the status quo are "unbiased". (It has dovetailed quite effectively with modern right wing rhetoric in this regard). Of course, that makes feminists a bunch of evil fascist invaders who want to destroy gaming and take it away from "real gamers".

It's sad really. A lot of the same people who likely spent years arguing that games weren't just kids toys and should be treated like a serious medium. Now that they are, they're mad. It's not really surprising though. This is what happens when you have a bunch of people who think "gamer" is their identity, let them stew in a bunch of regressive bullshit until they think that's the norm, and subject them to years of living straw men until they're paranoid and clueless about what real criticism is.

I think you have one thing right --- they're changing the game in order to make more money, either as part of maintaining their brand image in the West, or appealing to a Western fan base that finds things like "petting" other characters as creepy/weird.

Personally, I boycott games that have moe/otaku pandering in them.

Nintendo has to ask themselves whether Western otaku are worth catering to compared to the mainstream gamer demographic,

And you just said that pet girls and monsters are the same thing, so long as they're pixels. That's pretty incredible.

No, you posted that comment as I was posting mine. I apologize about it. My mistake. But thanks for the detailed and direct answer.

That's a pretty subjective claim to make. All the women in my circle don't really watch American cartoons or play American games because of the lack of females in them, something Japan has no issue with yet I see people complain about in cartoons, comics, and western games all the time. It's not that surprising though. There's a lot more women in those industries than in the west.

Or perhaps I should say, Japanese media is very good at appealing to either men or women. See, a major thing you have to understand about Japanese media is that it tends to be very gender focused. In a lot of ways that's one of its strengths. This has allowed a lot of material, the kind that is unequivocally aimed at women and women alone, to flourish. That in turn is a big reason why Japanese media has found such a significant female audience. Of course, the downside is that a lot of Japanese media also tends to be unequivocally aimed at men and men alone. And while there's nothing inherently wrong with that in principle, in practice this has given rise to some astoundingly sexist trash.

The unfortunate reality is that women don't really have the luxury of dismissing any media with sexist elements. If they did they'd have very little left.

You really don't know how wrong you are...

So you've only ever played SNES RPGs? If you go back to the early 90's, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest had a number of entries visually similar to Undertale. And for a SNES fan, I'm surprised you don't appreciate Undertale's spiritual similarities to games like Earthbound and the Mother series.

There's also the fact that Splatoon managed to get the inversion of the normal audience for shooters:

It's pretty sick that they can't handle anyone playing games they personally don't like.

While everything I say above is just my anecdotal experience, I do think it's a point worth considering.

Was it the right decision?

I also asked a core gamer friend what he though about the changes in localization for IF. His favorite game is Warcraft 3 and he then asked me back what a Fire Emblem is! Lol.

I wonder what would have happened if ANN reported on the removed hostess content in Yakuza 3

but adding erotic mini-games and homophobic date rape in a hardcore turn based RPG makes about as much sense as putting prostitutes into Dark Souls 3...