| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
|
|
|
animefanworried
Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 126
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:35 pm
|
 |
|
| Hoppy800 wrote: | | The 2020 Olympics... |
There is potential for disaster there. We will have to wait and see but the Japanese government's desire for anime to appeal and meet the approval of western tourists who are not interested in animation at the expense of Japanese and global fans who actually pay for it may come at high a price. One can only hope they'll be too busy with other crap to refocus their attention on anime.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Kikaioh
Joined: 01 Jun 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Antarctica
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:01 pm
|
|
|
| BadNewsBlues wrote: | |
You shouldn't be surprised at this since most of the people saying this are 80's and 90's babies who'll swear up and down that their generation had it good while the current generation is missing out.
I mean I don't watch a lot of current gen animated series myself but I would never say the majority of it is crap or not as good as what I grew up watching. |
The 80's and 90's generation of western animation was fantastic. They really don't make shows quite like Inspector Gadget or Tiny Toon Adventures anymore. IMO, the current generation would be missing out, if there weren't reruns and channels on Boomerang replaying older shows still. But in any case, none of that means that what we're getting right now is bad --- it's just different from what came out before, but good/respectable in its own way.
I don't at all feel the same way about anime. I think anime from the 80's, 90's, and up through a lot of the 2000's, was fantastic/great. Even anime from the 70's and further back is fascinating to watch in its own right. But anime from the modern day has so many teeth-grating sensisibilities that make me want to gag. Whether it's moe, idol culture, the metro look, loli obsessiveness, melodramatic relationships, teenagers feigning unaffectedness/coolness, light novel adapatations, etc., there's so much anime coming out right now that's eye-gougingly cringeworthy in ways that I'm spiritually repulsed by. Classics and reboots notwithstanding (One Piece, Ushio & Tora, etc.), the modern anime scene, for me at least, is different now, but in a bad way. I'll take the cartoony, light-hearted mid-90's or the sci-fi campy 80's over the teenage milquetoast facepalm-worthy modern era any day.
Also, I tend to think people complaining about anime's superiority to Western animation are younger kids going through that phase where you think everything from Japan is better than what you grew up with.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Selipse
Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 216
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:08 pm
|
|
|
| Guile wrote: | | Truely? It seems like the opposite is what I always hear. Animation continues to decline in the west. Shows that aren't comedies are becoming fewer and fewer. Animation is being push aside in favor of CG animation and Flash. Everything conforming to the CalArts standard of design and execution. Maybe I was misinformed. |
As I said in my post, you're wrong, but also kinda right. I think it is true that western animation has become a little samey, at least in the vibe it gives. However, I don't find that they have actually declined in quality. Most things are similar "quirky comedies with a heart", but they're also very good. Really, we just need more variety.
| encrypted12345 wrote: | | I partially blame the dominance of superhero comics in the Western comic book industry. If comic books had more variety, then there would be more variety in the cartoons derived from comics. |
I was just thinking about this. Manga pretty much dictated how anime turned out. Since everyone in Japan reads manga, and there's so much variety, that ended up finding its way to anime. Making an animated show that doesn't target what somehow turned out to be the main and sole target audience of the medium (kids) isn't as much of a risk when there's already an existing fanbase. So the problem in the west winds up being that comics also ended up with a very small niche.
In that case, a possible indirect solution would be to diversify comics, but even that is pretty hard. Unless it's webcomics, but those are unfit for adaptation because of their (very understandable) publication schedules (not to mention that the fanbase would obviously be smaller). Maybe they could start by adapting books into animation?
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
the green death
Joined: 28 Jul 2015
Posts: 128
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:01 am
|
|
|
| Mikeski wrote: |
| the green death wrote: | | I don't mean to be naive, but what precisely defines a "healing" show? Is it something like Clannad? |
Nope, that's full of pain and sadness and conflict. The "healing" is for the audience, not the characters.
Healing (Iyashikei) shows just give you the warm fuzzies, or maybe the giggles. K-On, Aria, Tamayura, Is the Order a Rabbit? ...
"Nothing really happens, but in a really good way." -- Sayaka Ohara, voice actress describing Aria |
Cool, thank you! These actually sound up my alley whereas I wasn't fond of Clannad.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Cptn_Taylor
Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:20 am
|
|
|
| angelmcazares wrote: | |
Don't get me wrong, I want anime to be more globalized. I would like one day see more Japanese distributors add subtitles from several languages in their physical releases and if possible have friendly pricing. And of course I want to see more Western money (but not many ideas) pumped into the Japanese anime industry. |
What you say does not compute. What you really want is more akin to cultural imperialism than anything else. You want more western money to go to Japan but with no influence on which kind of anime is made right ? So the Japanese that spend money are allowed to dictate the genres that they want but western fans should they contribute on an equal economic level should have no say. Ha ha ha the world doesn't work this way. With money comes control, and if western fans pump much more money in the Japanese anime industry there will come a time when they will be able to dictate terms just as the Japanese otakus do.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Lili-Hime
Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:25 am
|
|
|
| Just-another-face wrote: | | The cynic in me says this is easy to answer: it's because we in the West still can't produce anything drawn or animated "on the same level as anime". Even in the last few years, our animated shows apparently all just suck, no matter how much so-called "anime influence" they have. Why? Because they're not still not anime according to the definition, and are therefore boring & poorly drawn by default. At least this is the explanation I see some people give. |
Lol Japanese master race amirite? Sorry but Disney movies have been on par or better than anime in terms of artistry since the 1930's, at least up until now when they've given up 2D altogether. Cases in point: go watch The Lion King or Alladin. Both movies from the early 90's with better more believable CG integration with 2D than the vast majority of anime out there.
Shows like Adventure Time, Star vs the Forces of Evil, Steven Universe, and others focus on more cartoony character designs in order to allow for greater freedom in animation and smoother frame rate. Sure most anime characters are a bit more anatomically correct; but the range of action, emotion and movement in one of the above shows to your typical late night otaku anime with school settings and moe girls. Anime has notoriously bad frame rates; especially for TV shows.
Western animation isn't inherently superior to Japanese, but the Japanese animation isn't inherently superior to Western either. It largely depends on budget and target audience rather than talent. And these days the west has a lot more money than Japan does. It was far different in the 80's and early 90's when Japan was producing stuff drawn on the 1's like robot carnival
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
EricJ2
Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:34 am
|
|
|
| mangamuscle wrote: | | The 2020 Olympics is the 9/11 for anime. Whole genres will disappear unless the tyranny of the IOC is stopped. |
But...we never would have finally gotten Doraemon, if it wasn't for the '20 Olympic's world-domination marketing!
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
CoreSignal
Joined: 04 Sep 2014
Posts: 727
Location: California, USA
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:39 am
|
|
|
| encrypted12345 wrote: | |
This. The main reason I'm not nearly as much of a Western animation fan as an anime fan is the lack of variety. Feel free to correct me at any point, but anything romance focused is nonexistent, most action shows focus more on comedy rather than drama or adventure (other than superhero shows which while episodic and have a good number of quibs, do have significant drama many times), and there are more situational comedies in Western animation than moe shows in anime. |
Me too. Most western animation is basically either quirky comedy or adaptations of long-running franchises, specifically superhero stuff or Star Wars. Both types of shows are fine and all, but where's the variety?. For example, there's very little in the way of original action shows. Honestly, the old Gargoyles show from the 90s, Samurai Jack and maybe Symbiotic Titan are the only ones I can think of. It reminds me of that ANNcast with Toonami where Jason DeMarco said that Toonami is supposed to be an action animation block, not just an anime block. Since the West never (or rarely) makes action shows, that's why we never see any western animation on Toonami. Part of what got me into anime is the variety.
| Lili-Hime wrote: | | Western animation isn't inherently superior to Japanese, but the Japanese animation isn't inherently superior to Western either. It largely depends on budget and target audience rather than talent. |
Agreed. Any Disney movie from the 80s and 90s still has more fluid animation than any anime show airing right now. Then again, a tv budget can't really compare to a movie budget.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
Just-another-face
Joined: 08 Feb 2014
Posts: 324
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:07 am
|
|
|
| Kikaioh wrote: | | Also, I tend to think people complaining about anime's superiority to Western animation are younger kids going through that phase where you think everything from Japan is better than what you grew up with. |
Indeed, that dreaded "disease" from the old days where a person sees anime for the first time and thinks it's so unbelievably amazing that nothing else compares. Further side effects of said affliction include repeating baseless blanket statements about the U.S. being unable to produce anything that good.
| Lili-Hime wrote: | | Lol Japanese master race amirite? Sorry but Disney movies have been on par or better than anime in terms of artistry since the 1930's, at least up until now when they've given up 2D altogether. Cases in point: go watch The Lion King or Alladin. Both movies from the early 90's with better more believable CG integration with 2D than the vast majority of anime out there. |
If you're telling me specifically to go watch those flicks, I already have, along with pretty much every gorgeous piece of work Disney did in its 2D glory days. And I completely agree about the level of quality. As I said, those were the remarks I'd seen floating around in places and sometimes overheard at cons before, though I know they're not the majority nor do they speak for everyone. I don't agree at all with that nonsense. It's just weird hearing something like "anime is superior to our crap" when I thought that trend had died out after 2004.
| Quote: | | Western animation isn't inherently superior to Japanese, but the Japanese animation isn't inherently superior to Western either. |
Again, agreed. I think both sides of the world are amazing in what they can create. The "Japanese master race" nonsense that some bunglers spew out is just a sign of their ignorance.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
AnimeLordLuis
Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Posts: 1626
Location: The Borderlands of Pandora
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:26 am
|
|
|
One Important thing that Justin forget to mention was that nowadays more and more Anime is being Dubbed in English. Which appears to a much wider audience do you think someone who has never seen Anime in his/her life is going to start with subs hell no if there going to start out watching something new it's going to be in there native language then maybe down the road there watch subs or stick to dubs like I did. 
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
mangamuscle
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:42 am
|
|
|
| AnimeLordLuis wrote: | | do you think someone who has never seen Anime in his/her life is going to start with subs hell no |
I started with RAWS  and no, back then I had no idea what they said, I could not even make out when a word started/ended beyond "ranma".
| Quote: | if there going to start out watching something new it's going to be in there native language then maybe down the road there watch subs or stick to dubs like I did. |
I acknowledge this is true for most people, but English is not the mother language for many countries being covered by Crunchy, Daisuki, etc. Netflix acknowledges that much and is doing dubs in other languages other than english for important markets, I would encourage them Crunchy and Funi/Daisuki to start with spanish, there is already an infrastructure in place in Mexico city for dubbing and it has a low entry cost (and who knows, maybe so voice actors here could dub also to English in the future).
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Lili-Hime
Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:11 am
|
|
|
|
@Just-Another-Face
Ah, right I kind of thought that was your point! lol
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
KidOblivion
Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 179
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:39 am
|
|
|
|
I think it has to do with Toonami coming back as well, it came back at the right time as anime was on an incline after a while. Wouldn't rule out the possibility of people catching it on TV and becoming a fan.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:55 am
|
|
|
| Hoppy800 wrote: |
| mangamuscle wrote: | | I disagree, there will be no 9/11 for anime this time around, we ain't see nothing yet! |
The 2020 Olympics is the 9/11 for anime. Whole genres will disappear unless the tyranny of the IOC is stopped. |
It's a good thing that Valkyrie Drive is being made now, because nudity will probably be the first thing struck down.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
yuna49
Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 8:54 am
|
|
|
|
I found Justin's characterization of the period before streaming to be a bit disingenuous. The way he describes it fans only had access to anime via DVD or VHS tapes, as if fansubbing and torrents didn't exist. Regardless of your views on these matters, a substantial fraction of fans continued to watch fansubs before 2010 or so when Crunchy and other streaming services got off the ground.
Ironically Crunchyroll began as a service that illegally streamed fansubs just as Kiss does today. Yet the expansion of CR, later joined by Funimation and Daisuki, spelled the end of the so-called "ethical fansubbing" system. CR licensed shows as they were released in Japan taking a large fraction of titles off the plate for groups that limited their efforts to unlicensed works. Nowadays most fansubs consist of nothing more than repackaged CR and Funi rips.
Yes, I am glad that I can now pay to watch anime legally, but I'm not about to disavow my having watched fansubs. How would I ever have had the chance to see works like Dennou Coil, Bartender, or Hyouge Mono without the dedicated efforts of fansubbers? Hyouge Mono was released in the period after legal streaming became the norm, yet none of the Western distributors showed any interest in such a niche title. Even with widespread streaming titles like that will always fall through the cracks. I hope they will continue to be produced in Japan despite the growth of foreign audiences that we have seen in the past few years.
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
