Forum - View topicAnother Tough Topic - Should Fansubs factor back into Anime?
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sonictail
ANN.au Editor in Chief
 Posts: 326 |
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Well, considering how well everyone did on the last topic about "Top Five Anime" here's another one. And you had better let me explain.
As some of you already know, Fansub Reaction sometimes factors into the decision of western companies to license particular titles. Of course it's not entirely consistent in relation to actual sales but it's usually a good yardstick. So here's the question, and it's a step up. Should the companies in Japan also consider Fansub Reaction in response to how it does it's show? Anime screened in Japan usually changes dependent on audience response if it isn't doing as well. Lucky Star's director change could be considered a example in this case. Now if you think about how many people download Fansubs, would that be a large enough demographic for the directors to pay attention to? Or more to the point, should it be? ST~ |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16974 |
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There are two words in your post that should be distinguished when answering the question(s).. That being WOULD and SHOULD. I think that the sheer amount of fansub downloaders would make a difference. I think more and more companies are noticing how popular a show is in regards to fansubs and downloaders. Some companies may, and I stress may, use such a demographic as a consideration if they're on the ropes about if a title will be popular enough. Now the other part is SHOULD this group of people be a consideration, I feel that's a resounding NO. I download titles myself. I download fansubs of shows I'm pretty sure won't make it here, or to preview shows so I can make better educated purchases. Let's face it, not all of us can afford to pay for 10 titles at a time. So if I got enough cash to afford say 3, but want 5 shows, I want to preview them all so I can purchase the 3 best in my mind. I mention this so no one can simply claim I'm just a fansub hater. The fact is though they are illegal, plain and simple. I don't want to discuss the morality. Save that for later. the cold hard facts are they are illegal. That being said and illegal product, and it's fan base, should not be considered by the directors and companies in terms of what to do with a show and its popularity. If they start considering this fan base then they're now heading into the area of condoning their actions and even justifying them. That is something that should not happen. |
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madmangohan
 Posts: 96 |
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Personally, I believe the Japanese should acknowledge the popularity or negativity of a series outside of Japan, but should not use it as a reason to modify the anime. Doing so is nothing more than tailer making the show to the fansub watchers. Anime should concentrate first and foremost on it's own country's audience, and possibly change the show if it recieves negativity there.
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mjgeo
 Posts: 133 Location: Australia |
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There are a lot of factors to consider when answering this question, which will probably result in three things. First, there isn't going to be any one right answer. Second, if the topic gets popular (doubtful unless it's in the main ANN forum) people with differing, yet equally right answers, will argue to no end. Third, I'll make a post trying to explain my thoughts, and end up with an incoherent jumble of words that makes sense only to me.
Now on to the question, or more precisely questions. As I said there are many factors, and the first one to consider is what the companies are trying to get out of the anime: - Are they making a show to get high TV ratings? Fansub Reaction (FR) would be irrelevant. - Is the show aimed more at the Japanese DVD market? FR also wouldn't matter as far as I can tell. - Do they need the American market to make profit? Then yes, they should take into consideration FR. As for the directors, what do they want out of the show? - Do they want to stay faithful to the original source? - Do they have their own vision for how the anime should go? - Do they, like their bosses, just want to make a successful (popular) show? While it is important to listen to your audience and not shut out the fans, from what I can tell this should not always apply to fansub downloaders; they may often simply be irrelevant when considering the intentions of the director and/or company creating the anime. Having said that, I can't see any difference between the fansub audience and the 'legitimate' (for lack of a better word) audience in their thoughts and opinions on the anime. It just seems that the fansub audience is a lot more vocal. If there is a criticism of an anime that is widespread in the fansub community, chances are the target audience shares that criticism. My honest opinion is that companies and directors should pay attention to FR if only because it gives them an accurate picture of what their actual target audience thinks of the show. This would allow them to fix their mistakes before they lose their audience (it's hard to get someone back once they've given up on a show), but it would also bring the fans more into the show if they feel like they are contributing to it. |
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sonictail
ANN.au Editor in Chief
Posts: 326 |
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Hrm,
I guess I should have made it clearer, but you guys seem to have taken a fairly heady topic on board so congrats, i'm happy to see this. And hey if the ann.au section becomes known for intelligent discussion we can leave the spammers over at the madboards 
Back to the topic, the reason why I suggest Fansub reaction is that by the time a series comes out on DVD it's already too late to take any kind of change to acknowledge the western audience. Fansubs are the most accurate thing that can be used to gauge foreign response. Apart from setting up a focus group. Now fansubs are illegal, and there is no doubt there. But companies have known to listen to online response before. I'm unsure how it translates to sales. We also have to consider the fact that the online community, no matter how large, is filled with the vocal minority. So sure, we could consider fansubs, and the director / producers intent. But what's more important? International sales, Local Sales or Advertising? |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16974 |
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As someone from that madboard I resemble that remark.....wait, resemble?..... no that's not right...I represent that remark!!!.....crap, that's not right either....hold on hold on I'm thinking.....ah!....I resent that remark!!!...yea that's the one...heh heh I'll show them here how smart I am talking out loud to myself and typing it all right now....ah crap 
The fansub community does not always show and accurate representation of their target audience. In my experience the fansub community is the first, and loudest, to complain about dubs, translations, subs, etc etc. Plus, let's just say you do listen to them. They say this aspect sucks, so you change it assuming the "legitimate" audience feels the same. I'd guess and say about half of the fansub community isn't going to buy your product regardless. We've all heard the reasons so I won't go into that and start a shitstorm. Simply put I feel if this group, or the majority of it, is not going to actually support your product then their opinion should not count or be factored in. That's just me and I am a bit strict in my views on this subject (Criminal Justice major should explain that). |
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mjgeo
Posts: 133 Location: Australia |
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I thought we were talking about fansub influence on Japanese companies and directors, not anything to do with American (or other Western) companies and dubs or subs. I think it makes a difference in terms of what the fansub audience represents (i.e. they are more in line with the Japanese audience than the Western, dub audience). But I don't know for a fact.
I sort of agree with you, even though I said I think their opinion should be counted. In an ideal world, fansub reaction shouldn't matter, but like I said they are an audience and their feedback is easily accessible to the Japanese companies. If there are other effective ways for the companies to communicate and get feedback from a more legitimate audience (especially Western audience), I'd be all for that instead. |
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madmangohan
Posts: 96 |
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The thing is though, should the opinion of the Western audience matter at all? Is it at all degrading to listen to the words of outside countries over the voices of your own national audience? Whilst the Western audience is entitled to their opinion of a show, I personally believe that an anime should not be changed soley on such a fact. Unless the intention of an anime was to change based on western feedback (which is more or less tailor-making it for them), then I believe the focus should be on the nation audience only. Honestly, if the western audience feels strongly about something wrong in an anime, chances are a large japanese audience believes so as well. |
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mjgeo
Posts: 133 Location: Australia |
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I think the last sentence there answers your question for you. At least, it's what I've been saying to justify my stance on this issue. And on that note, I don't think you should be too worried about the companies listening to 'outsiders' over the Japanese audience. Furthermore, from some of the posts I've seen around here (mainly from the ANN staff), Japanese companies are either being forced to rely on overseas markets to make a profit, or seeing more of an opportunity in the overseas markets. |
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sonictail
ANN.au Editor in Chief
Posts: 326 |
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Considering that current feedback from the internet runs along the line of "Needs more Lolcats" I would now worry if they implemented that kind of feedback.
Hrm, Madmangohan sums it up pretty nicely. I just wish we had a example of this occuring. Anyone know if there was a japanese backlash against the publication of Kodomo no Jikan? That would give us evidence
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16974 |
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Actually from what I've heard (I'll try and find the news article I saw this in, wherever in the web I was lol) the Japanese companies/authorities are very upset over the amount of fansbs and in particular the distribution of them and bootlegs. They're actually doing more to really curb this and go after offenders then anyone else. They also are prosecuting EVERYONE they catch. If you're caught doing this sort of stuff and they catch you it's do not pass go do not collect $200. |
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mjgeo
Posts: 133 Location: Australia |
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@ Psycho 101: "Kodomo no Jikan" = Nymphet.
According to the (ever reliable) wikipedia entry: On June 7, 2007, Kaworu Watashiya posted a blog entry on Kodomo no Jikan's controversy in the United States. Watashiya commented that, "what I heard about 'issues in volume 2 and later' made me realize the differences in the cultures between the countries." No doubt there are differences between the two countries, but I wouldn't read too much into this one incident. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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On the contrary, volume 4 of Kodomo no Jikan manga will come with a DVD with anime footages that "too much to be broadcasted on TV." Backlash? I'd call it a tour de force instead. 
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sonictail
ANN.au Editor in Chief
Posts: 326 |
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Please don't let them be on bikes... But in terms of fansubs, it's good to hear that companies are trying to crack down on it. I would love to see stats of the success of incredibly successful fansub anime vs it's retail before and after a crackdown. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Em, is this some sort of Australian idiom? I tried to look it up but didn't get any feasible result.
I'd like to see such statistics too. However, those do not and will not exist, for selling numbers are not something you could isolate and experiment on. Let's have an imaginary scenario: we know that FUNimantion has just acquired xxxHolic; before the license announcement they had no right to enforce a crackdown (only Production I.G could), nor did they have anything to sell to English-speaking potential customers. The only number you might be able to compare would be the stats of Japanese (R2JP) releases of a title currently being fansubbed e.g. Lucky Star and compare the number of sales of R2JP before and after crackdown -- which I'd bet on "no statistical difference." As for whether cracking down could increase DVD sell: some of you may still remember that Media Factory made a public announcement that they would chase and sue whoever fansubs their titles. The result? I don't think there are many discussions on Okusama wa Maho Shojo, a show featuring big stars like Kikuko Inoue and Ai Shimizu. Heck, even Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou is much better known at ANN (okay, in this case I'm personally involved...). It took Microsoft over 20 years to switch the lever of their fishing reel. Japanese companies are no less smart. |
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