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Ohoni
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:48 am
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Quote: | A person like this certainly isn't new to an ecchi show where showing tits is the main goal no matter how it is achieved but it doesn't make him anymore cheap regardless. We totally didn't see that last minute save coming right? Was I the only one? |
Well, it could have gone two ways. The "dark show" version would be no save, deal with the consequences, the "light show" version is the save. I honestly would have dropped the series had they gone the dark route, but it is a legitimate way to go so long as the rest of the series earned that mature realism.
I don't have a problem with Titta being a simple maid though. She's a maid of a minor county, there's no reason for her to have ninja skills. She could perhaps have escaped on her own using "everyman skills," but I would not have appreciated the show more if she'd just busted out some magical powers or insane fighting skills. It's ok for some characters to be normal.
Quote: | But she isn't really a support character in the traditional sense. This is a harem. And since it is a harem each girl part of said harem always has a role to play. This has almost always been the case in fantasy action harems. I for one have never seen a useless girl in a show like this nor do i wish to see such a thing here. |
She has a role to play, she makes the tea.
Anyways, I did have some serious problems with that scene and the way it was handled. One, the creepy guy was way creepy. Two, I have a high tolerance for fan service when it's mostly harmless, like when the camera just stares at Ellen's boobs, but the fan service in that scene was just exploitative of the character who was undergoing trauma. Not only did her undergarments reapeatedly show, but the camera explicitly focused on them several times over the course of the scene, showing a head-on shot of her knees to belly, or belly to collar bone, rather than from angles that showed less. It wasn't appropriate.
Sure, you could have her clothing getting cut up, that's something rapey guy would probably do, but then the tasteful thing would be for the camera to ignore it, to attempt to find angles in which you can see that her clothes are torn, but not what's underneath. Think of it like when a show cannot show nudity or use overt censoring, so they have to use camera angles that show that the character is nude, without showing any of the naughty bits. The only fan service that would be even remotely appropriate to that scene would be after she's already been saved, she could notice Tigre noticing her state of undress and do a "kya!" or something, because then the traumatic situation is over, but by placing the fan service right in the middle of the trauma, the show almost made the viewer complicit in it.
I don't think this alone will drive me from the series (although there's plenty more to choose from this season), but it would make me less likely to recommend it. It's a shame, because there's a lot of interesting stuff that would make this show so much better if they toned down the fan service obsession.
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Enternal
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:16 pm
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Ohoni wrote: | Anyways, I did have some serious problems with that scene and the way it was handled. One, the creepy guy was way creepy. Two, I have a high tolerance for fan service when it's mostly harmless, like when the camera just stares at Ellen's boobs, but the fan service in that scene was just exploitative of the character who was undergoing trauma. Not only did her undergarments reapeatedly show, but the camera explicitly focused on them several times over the course of the scene, showing a head-on shot of her knees to belly, or belly to collar bone, rather than from angles that showed less. It wasn't appropriate.
Sure, you could have her clothing getting cut up, that's something rapey guy would probably do, but then the tasteful thing would be for the camera to ignore it, to attempt to find angles in which you can see that her clothes are torn, but not what's underneath. Think of it like when a show cannot show nudity or use overt censoring, so they have to use camera angles that show that the character is nude, without showing any of the naughty bits. The only fan service that would be even remotely appropriate to that scene would be after she's already been saved, she could notice Tigre noticing her state of undress and do a "kya!" or something, because then the traumatic situation is over, but by placing the fan service right in the middle of the trauma, the show almost made the viewer complicit in it. |
Yeah that bothered me a bit too because it did not even exist in the source. Well, to be fair, they added quite a bit of fanservice to the anime but still...
On the other hand, they seem to try to make it serious as well since the fanservice emphasis was pretty much gone once Tigre got there and there was no embarrassing reactions of any sort from either member. It would have been better though if they used that time to have Tigre wrapped her up with a cloth since that's what actually happened.
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xyz
Joined: 10 Jan 2002
Posts: 243
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:26 pm
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I tried really hard to like this one. It has some kind of plot in here and the visual ain't bad but there is only so much I can bear with the fanservice.
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Animegomaniac
Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4107
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:06 am
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The show got me right from the start with Elen's smile. I was hoping someone else would catch on to it so I'd have a basis for describing it but its combination of both being predatory and welcoming says to me, "You are mine and you will like it".
Everything else is just gravy to that.
And with just one episode, I have to say that this is the anime equivalent of Jordan's Wheel of Time series, right down to "War Maidens" and derision of proper military tactics {"The bow? A coward's weapon" clued me in right away}. About time someone "borrowed" from it. "Game of Thrones"? Song of Ice and Fire? Not even close; For one thing, there's no incest.
Wheel of Time has some ideas about "sexual power balance" that's already being discussed here; I won't comment on it until I see the episode in question but the main character in the WoT had a harem {See Japan, it's not just limited to you} of a warrior princess, a warrior priestess and a bar maid {the bar maid tuned out to be the most awesome}.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23907
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:14 am
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Yeah, I wasn't super-stoked on this episode for reasons that have already been touched upon. I for one would not shed a tear if anime collectively decided to slap a moratorium on crazy-eyed villains who are villainous just 'coz.
And I didn't dig the maid scene. I like fanservice but I prefer not to have it in the context of a sexual assault, thank you very much.
And as has been pointed out, very weird that Rapey McRaperson was shot through the the hand and then promptly ignored for the rest of the eppie. What the hell, man?
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DuskyPredator
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15523
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:30 am
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About him being shot and then ignored, I thought that it was implied that some men went into the house in a bid to capture him once he was wounded. There was some precedent that live capture is desirable, and you would think a few soldiers would be enough, although for story reasons he probably made it out.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23907
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:36 am
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I guess I missed the implication. But even if it was there, it is still kind of an odd way to deal with the aftermath.
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Enternal
Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 14
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:54 pm
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The thing is, Zion is still son of a lord that is much more powerful than Tigre or his father. Killing Zion is probably not the best idea so it's better to try to catch him alive or at least, try to.
Right after that scene anyways, you can see Rurick and a few soldiers run in so that's implying they're trying to catch him.
Wheel of Time? Hmm... I should check it out. I bought a few books ages ago and it's one of the few books I did not read at the time since I was finishing up the Merlin Series by T.A. Barron.
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Ohoni
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:32 pm
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I finished Wheel of Time recently, it was fantastic, although it took a little while to get going.
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:17 pm
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Enternal wrote: | The thing is, Zion is still son of a lord that is much more powerful than Tigre or his father. Killing Zion is probably not the best idea so it's better to try to catch him alive or at least, try to.
Right after that scene anyways, you can see Rurick and a few soldiers run in so that's implying they're trying to catch him.
Wheel of Time? Hmm... I should check it out. I bought a few books ages ago and it's one of the few books I did not read at the time since I was finishing up the Merlin Series by T.A. Barron. |
more powerful means more army, yes. But they probably just have the same rank. if not, maybe just one level higher. If Tigre can beat Zion 's father in a war, nobody would say a thing.
the Eleonora's force killed the Brune prince, i don't think they care about that little nobody.
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3655
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:38 pm
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Well, depending on how closely they want to mimic medieval European feudal approaches to politics, while killing a lord in battle is a thing that happens, capturing them alive opens the door to more long-term political opportunities, such as using them as a hostage to deter future aggression, gaining an economic upper hand through a large ransom, etc.
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Ohoni
Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:36 am
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Yeah, in real medieval times, you might kill a Lord if you really personally hated the guy, but 99/100 you would capture him alive if at all possible. Death is for minor knights.
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Spotlesseden
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:42 pm
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if you kill a prince, you don't really care. the lord's son is nobody compare to the prince.
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leatherhead333
Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 1187
Location: Kansas
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Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:55 pm
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Ohoni wrote: |
Quote: | A person like this certainly isn't new to an ecchi show where showing tits is the main goal no matter how it is achieved but it doesn't make him anymore cheap regardless. We totally didn't see that last minute save coming right? Was I the only one? |
Well, it could have gone two ways. The "dark show" version would be no save, deal with the consequences, the "light show" version is the save. I honestly would have dropped the series had they gone the dark route, but it is a legitimate way to go so long as the rest of the series earned that mature realism.
I don't have a problem with Titta being a simple maid though. She's a maid of a minor county, there's no reason for her to have ninja skills. She could perhaps have escaped on her own using "everyman skills," but I would not have appreciated the show more if she'd just busted out some magical powers or insane fighting skills. It's ok for some characters to be normal.
Quote: | But she isn't really a support character in the traditional sense. This is a harem. And since it is a harem each girl part of said harem always has a role to play. This has almost always been the case in fantasy action harems. I for one have never seen a useless girl in a show like this nor do i wish to see such a thing here. |
She has a role to play, she makes the tea.
Anyways, I did have some serious problems with that scene and the way it was handled. One, the creepy guy was way creepy. Two, I have a high tolerance for fan service when it's mostly harmless, like when the camera just stares at Ellen's boobs, but the fan service in that scene was just exploitative of the character who was undergoing trauma. Not only did her undergarments reapeatedly show, but the camera explicitly focused on them several times over the course of the scene, showing a head-on shot of her knees to belly, or belly to collar bone, rather than from angles that showed less. It wasn't appropriate.
Sure, you could have her clothing getting cut up, that's something rapey guy would probably do, but then the tasteful thing would be for the camera to ignore it, to attempt to find angles in which you can see that her clothes are torn, but not what's underneath. Think of it like when a show cannot show nudity or use overt censoring, so they have to use camera angles that show that the character is nude, without showing any of the naughty bits. The only fan service that would be even remotely appropriate to that scene would be after she's already been saved, she could notice Tigre noticing her state of undress and do a "kya!" or something, because then the traumatic situation is over, but by placing the fan service right in the middle of the trauma, the show almost made the viewer complicit in it.
I don't think this alone will drive me from the series (although there's plenty more to choose from this season), but it would make me less likely to recommend it. It's a shame, because there's a lot of interesting stuff that would make this show so much better if they toned down the fan service obsession. |
Well you kind of answered why I had issues with the scene your comment. I'd much rather prefer she be able to defend herself through some means than see her chased by a crazy rapist as the camera zooms all over her torn clothes. That's the kind of smut makes me rather judgmental of the anime's overall presentation of the situation since it presented one of the harem girls as some waxed up trophy. Not cool
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Vaisaga
Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 13230
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Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:23 am
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Nice, this show comes with SD shorts!
Learning so much~
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