Forum - View topicNEWS: Japan's Child Pornography Bill Would Not Restrict Anime, Manga
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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What matters is not whether it IS the same thing, but whether people SEE it as the same thing. You can put forth whatever arguments about how this is no different, but people don't get turned on or off by rationally coming to conclusion that real child porn and lolicon porn are basically the same thing or not. When someone says "it's fictional", you can say "bullshit, you're just rationalizing", but you're arguing from the point of how you personally SEE it. Maybe that person is just rationalizing, maybe the fictionality makes a lot of difference for them. |
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Hawkwing
 Posts: 317 Location: Sweden |
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Wait wasn't Ishihara Shintarou and his infamous "Tokyo youth health" bill or something involved around this time? Anyway, it looks like the laws has a negative effect on and it wouldn't surprise me if the amount of child victims will increase following this ban. I saw an intresting mini-documentary being posted on Reddit earlier which may also explain why I wouldn't be surprised: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2rOhcaqsBQ |
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Kreion
Posts: 332 |
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[quote="Rahxephon91"]
You're arguments are entirely based upon your own dislike of a niche - which as you've said is your own opinion - but the above isn't necessarily true. As mentioned before there have never been any studies which link real and fantasy child pornography. A person may enjoy the fantasy (as you've said be it for the taboo or innocence) and then still be disgusted by the notion of the thing occurring in real life. The important thing is that one person enjoys the fantasy, where another wants the reality. Whilst you may say they are similar the two are not. The entire point of a fantasy is that it doesn't have to make sense - that morality and consequences aren't a factor, or at least they are dulled. This is a natural human action - to fantasize about things which we would never do. Be it sexual or otherwise, the point is that the idea is breaking some law/taboo is exciting to the vast majority of humanity. Again the IDEA of doing that, not the actual action. Touching on your war argument briefly, even a hero who kills thousands rarely deals with the consequences of that. People are interested in the idea of being a 'hero' without considering what that entails. Another good example would be incest. I know a fair few people who enjoy doujins etc. related to that (myself included) yet I have a family and so do they - the reality is distasteful to me and 99% of humanity. However the fantasy is exciting, it's the fantasy which holds the appeal not the reality. You don't go to one because of the other normally. However, say someone did. If someone wanted to break a taboo, something as...wrong as child abuse. Then to be honest I would rather they enjoyed it in a fictional form. Though then the argument that doing so would make it more likely to commit the crime in real life - but that's something which is hard to say. I don't want to get into that because there will never be enough evidence to back it up - since you would need samples which would be impossible to obtain. |
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Rederoin
 Posts: 1427 Location: Europa |
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Atleast my high school traps and high school yuri stays safe, and that all that matter.
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4161 |
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Wow, I just heard the "violent video games induces violence" argument applied to manga and pedophilia.
This would get more traction in the US even as it makes less sense than the video game one. I loved how the reporter looked at Ken Akamastsu's drawings of the middle school girls and decided they weren't children. Also, they weren't being raped so it's ok {That would be a great review for Negima: It doesn't have rape so it's ok}. Wait, it does have 15 year old girls molesting a ten year old boy. Still ok, right? That's a whole different sort of problem, right? There's a double standard, right? Good thing this guy didn't get into any yaio... |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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If somebody already said this I apologize for being redundant. I just noticed that this thread became active again and I might have missed something when I read through it.
For me the difference is not in the picture that you see, the difference is in what had to happen for that picture to be produced. For the real child pornography to be made a real child must be hurt. When you look at that picture you are seeing that child being assaulted. You are looking at evidence of a crime. You are actually viewing that crime in progress. This is not true of fictional pornography. Whenever somebody buys, or just downloads, one of those pictures he is encouraging the original criminal to abuse more children and make more pictures. This does not apply to fictional child pornography. The market for real child pornography will probably never be completely eliminated, and even if it was that would not stop all sexual abuse of children. But making the possession of real child pornography a crime might reduce the market and remove some of the incentive for people to produce the material. Making fictional child pornography illegal would not do that. No children are hurt in the creation of fictional child pornography, and no children will be saved by the prohibition of fictional child pornography. That, in my opinion, is the difference. |
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Kougeru
 Posts: 5600 |
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I'm sure it's been said, but fake does not equal real. Just like how video game violence does not (always) lead the real violence, Loli/shota does not (always) lead to real pedophilia. There's always a few crazies but even for them there's no evidence showing the exact connection. The usual suspect is actually the crazies and that's problem the same on killers and pedobears...crazies. Anyway, good for this bill to have passed, without banning loli/shota
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revolutionotaku
Posts: 899 |
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Otaku USA magazine & the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund has criticized CNN for their reporting.
http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/LatestNews/News1/Anime-Gets-Blamed-For-Terrible-Things-Again-5747.aspx http://cbldf.org/2014/06/cnn-spectacularly-fails-to-understand-manga-and-anime/ |
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13626 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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To me, for people that would view fan service heavy or loli series as kiddy porn, I can see that because of the content. An example is that Seikon no Qwaser has a loli dominatrix. Similarly, the To Love-Ru Darkness manga has plenty of fan service that can push the boundaries between fan service and soft core porn.
[quote="configspace"]But it is also very wrong, because:
My user name, Kadmos, is actually from the mythical Phoenician prince that founded Thebes (There's also a Thebes, Egypt) and who introduced the alphabet to the Greeks (Historically, the Latin alphabet was adapted from the Greek alphabet that was adapted from the Phoenician version). |
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eragon2890
Posts: 159 |
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Seikon no qwaser was funny tough and to love ru darkness is one of my most funny series over. (BTW, to love ru has no lolis does it? At least not with any fanservice as far I can remember).
I prefer my anime characters, especially in ecchi shows, a bit older and with big, full-grown boobies (ie legal), but hey I am just happy the stuff is save. Not that it probably wouldn´t have been otherwise - ´looking into´ does not mean they would have done anything. They would probably have just made the Tokyo rules nation-wide (ie. making it harder for children to get this) or something. But hey it´s nice to have some certainty xD Call me in 3 or 5 years or so when (IF) they decide to start another study which will be done 3 years or so from then, okay?  Meanwhile I will just enjoy my anime (mostly ecchi, moe, but also sci-fi and everything else) and be happy. Later peeps~!
Also I love the first amendment and that it practically almost absolutely everything. Means that I don´t have to care one bit about anyone else´s opinion ´cause they can´t make it into law anyway. And I am Dutch, but your first amendment is great in the ´no violent video games!!´ "discussion". It means the USA will keep making them, which means that any opponents over here will just have to live with it. Can´t effectively regulate them even if they wanted to. (and hte majority of parliament doesn´t want to in the first place, the awesome thing here is that they simply don´t have the power too as long as the USA remains an important source of pop culture. GO USA!) |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3582 Location: Finland |
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As long as it's fictional and no real victims involved, there really isn't an issue, at least not for me. So yes, the law bill had a sensible outcome, for once...
If the moral high-grounders want to pour their energy into something more deserving --> that way there's Junior Idol. Now THAT if anything deserves attention...
You haven't kept too well up with newer stuff, have you? Like Suki de Suki de, Suki de The Animation (NSFW)(yes,it's got NTR too...) |
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shiranehito
 Posts: 793 |
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I'm just gonna leave this quote here...
(quote from twitter user @yama4yoshi) I was actually hesitant to join into this conversation because the topic is rather controversial. I see that there are some people who says that enjoying child pornography in fiction isn't the same with the real ones, and some people who says that it's the same. I often read loli / shota eromanga but when it comes to the real-life article about little girls or boys getting raped, I cringe. I honestly think that such action in real-life is utterly disturbing and disgusting, even though I quite like to read such things in fiction. Also I don't think that I would want to molest young girls or boys just because I read loli / shota content in fiction. I don't feel that those pictures will encourage me to do the crime related to what I read. I guess it depends on the people though. There are some people "inspired" to do things they see or read, but there are some who don't. I read fiction about people killing people for fun, but I don't want to copy that behavior. I read fiction about cooking, and I want to copy that because it sounds enjoyable. That just depends on each other "mindset" I guess? Let's say.... I don't like anime / manga with incest content because I have siblings and I find it rather disturbing. In the other hand, my friend really likes incest content despite of also having a really cute little sister in real life BUT he absolutely feel disgusted of the idea committing incest to his own sibling. My other friend, a female, has a chikan or rape fantasy, but of course she doesn't want such thing to really happen to her. So in the end, I think child pornography in fiction is just like that. Something some of you probably enjoy to imagine, but you absolutely hate it when it really happens. It's something that should only appear in fiction and nowhere else. I agree that as long as it doesn't really involve real victims, it's okay. Now for you who says that it will encourage people to do the same, my answer is... NO. I don't think banning or allowing child porn in fiction will do any better or worse to the real life case. Sometimes some people are just sick from the very core and it doesn't always have to involve fiction inspiring them. Sad as it may sounds but I think that's the truth. |
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Shadowrun20XX
 Posts: 1936 Location: Vegas |
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Sad thing is that it will never go away because of the orientation distortion money and power brings. The higher ups keep it around. The ones above you keep it around! Sick ass twisted rich politician types are the main ones that delve in child porn.
And as you have seen, that is, if you've been around long enough is that the Japanese DO NOT NARC on each other. They cover up sexual assaults, position abuses and even Murder on a daily. You think some bullshit like a bill will change any of that? Nihongo business as usual. Or if you are new.... It will change everything. LOL |
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Shadowrun20XX
Posts: 1936 Location: Vegas |
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All the fetish buzz words like loli and shota (Im talkin ero here) are something that have been around but not to the degree it is today.
Pandora's box is open on that one. There is an unstoppable amount of free image sites that now host such content. Far too many have seen and are now addicts of the crap. So much so that they defend their porn like they paid anything or are entitled to the right to view it. SMH. IMO hope the bill does some damage. |
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Rederoin
Posts: 1427 Location: Europa |
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What in the bloody hell does that have to do with them not banning shota/loli/middle school/high school porn? |
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