Forum - View topicWhy is Betterman ranked so low here?
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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It took me a good amount of time to get through this series, but in the end I thought that Betterman was overall a decent series. I mention this because it ranks near the bottom 10% of shows rated on ANN. What baffles me even more is that GaoGaiGar which shares the same series director, music, mecha and character designers ranks near the top 10% here.
I found the plot of Betterman more complex and thought provoking as well as creepy compared to GaoGaiGar. I've always loved stories that base themselves off of mankind's eternal pursuit of immortality and evolution neat. Granted I've only watched the first couple of volumes of Gao, but this series feels so juvenile compared to Betterman. I also got roped into the characters in Betterman and found the scene where spoiler[Kaede kills Shou and their unborn child] heart wrenching and disturbing. Keita is a generic annoying shounen hero, but the supporting characters all had interesting personalities. It was easier for me to feel sorry for Hinoki with her family's tragic past. Betterman might not make my favorite anime list, but I found it much more engrossing than GaoGaiGar and would rate it higher than the bottom 10% out here. Interesting enough I assumed that the series was 16:9 (1.78:1) but upon zooming it to fill the screen my video processor measures it closer to 2.10:1. This is good since the subs fall below the bottom of the screen. It fits nicely when I reframe the image so the top of the image matches the top of my screen leaving a little room below the image for subs. I have previously noted that this series came out in 1999, a good four years before the first big wave of 16:9 shows. |
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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The ratings here are crap, at least to me.
The ratings of most hardcore "anime fans" are crap to me, as well. Sometimes we agree but usually not. Oh well. GaoGaiGar is awful. I bought the first DVD and it might be among the worst purchases I ever made. The people who think this is what a good robot anime should be like, need to have their brains re-examined. I realize there are a lot of insane people who think GaoGaiGar is the awesomest robot show ever, and so all I can do is say "AUGH" and hang my head. And you're right, Betterman is pretty much made by the same people who made GaoGaiGar, and so the ratings should be similar, or at least not on opposite ends. Which again leads me to say that the opinions of the majority of anime fans are foolishly formed. I liked Betterman a lot more than GaoGaiGar too, although Betterman is also a below-average anime for me. I only bought Betterman cause the main girl looks awesome. And I'm very satisfied with the price of the cheap boxset, yay. Foolishly, I bought GaoGaiGar AFTER I bought Betterman, thinking maybe it was better and Betterman was a bust, but it was the other way around. ARGH. I like Takahiro Kimura's drawings. Godannar is the #1 best anime ever made, to me. I thought Betterman and GaoGaiGar might compare but it's not even close, not even in the same galaxy. BTW, Lou in Godannar looks awesome too. Have you noticed that Lou and Hinoki from Betterman look identical? Those are the only girls drawn in that style in Takahiro Kimura animes that I know of. I want to see more TK pictures and animes. I saw some more Lou-looking people in his artbook I bought (imported) but I can't read Japanese and I can't read what it says they are from. I think from a hentai game, but not sure (can't read well enough). |
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digitalkikka
 Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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I agree. It's pointless to argue over an anime's popularity based on the ratings here.
Now this, I disagree with. Where does all this GaoGaiGar hate come from? You don't like it? I'm sorry you don't like COURAGE. I however, do. Now do I think it's the "awesomest robot show ever"? No, but for what it is, I really love it. I have no problem with people not liking one of my favorite shows, but I do have a problem with the fact that anytime GaoGaiGar is brought up, someone has to say it's awful or that the people who like it are stupid for thinking so. We all have different tastes... 
But out of curiousity, I would love to hear what you think is a good giant robot show, Porcupine. Something Real, am I right? And as an aside, GaoGaiGar's first 5 episodes don't do the series justice.
Well, sharing the same staff doesn't automatically mean people are going to like both series. I enjoyed Betterman to an extent (not good, but not bad) but I found GGG superior and I wouldn't really compare the two outside of the staff involved. |
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I need to keep reminding myself about this statement since I tend to get really caught up in staff when it comes to anime. Somehow my thinking is hardwired to have faith in individuals and often forget that many talented artists have released total stinkers. The reason why I didn't include GaoGaiGar in the subject is because my question is more why is Betterman a flop more than why is GaoGaiGar so popular. The reason why I bring up GGG is because my initial reaction to Betterman's unpopularity might have stemmed from the older and goofier character and mecha styles. Then again although they do share the same team different artists have degrees of flexibility. Kunio Okawara (godfather of mecha) for one has a huge range in mecha styles. My best guess is that the real robot genre is very saturated right now, so low rated shows (that I love) like Gasaraki, Blue Gender, and Betterman tend to get panned. On the flip side Super Robot shows are not as common so they get a slightly better rating. I remember buying Shin Getter Robo (the one that had a writer change midway and felt like two different OVAs) and wondering why it was rated so high. Maybe we just need more good super robot series. I'm looking forward to the new GR television series. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Sharing the exact same staff in 95% of aspects such as is the case between Betterman and GGG means that observant people with good taste will give the two shows similar ratings, as is the case with both Randall and myself. Of course one show can be better than the other, but they can't be "worst show ever made" vs "best show ever made" as is the case with the ratings in the Encyclopedia. That's Randall's point, which is very valid.
And I already wrote in my earlier post that Godannar is the best anime ever made. It also happens to be a robot anime. I also happen to dislike robot anime, yet for some reason a robot anime is the best anime I've ever seen, not because it was a robot anime but because it was a good show. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Thats just untrue. Just because one Anime is made by the same or similar staff is no guaruntee of similar quality. It could quite possibly also be that one show is well done and the other is not. I'll agree statistically there is a good chance that if one is good/bad so will be the other. You state it as if its guarunteed that they will be of similar quality and anyone who doesnt think so is an idiot. |
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digitalkikka
Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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Uh, what? So you're basically saying that if the staff of a popular, well-rated series got together and produced a series that was total crap, the bad show deserves good ratings just because of the staff?!?!? Please tell me that's not what you're saying. You sound extremely ignorant.
I think that's one of the main reasons. I also think that people tend to have some kind of nostalgic interest in the Super Robot shows where the Real Robot shows have a very specific audience. Outside of something like Gundam SEED, the Real shows tend to be ignored by the general anime fandom. Unless a person has a specific interest in mecha, I don't think too many people would really want to add something like Gasaraki to their collection (IMO). Of course there are the general mecha fans (like me) who will take the genre in any form. I prefer Super myself, but I would still rather watch a mediocre Real series than most of what gets licensed these days  .
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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ikillchicken, I did say "similar" quality but not the same quality. I already said that there can be differences from one show to the next. It is hard to say by how much, but yes I agree one show can be a flop and the other a success. But the "distance" in quality between 2 shows made by nearly the exact same staff is still restricted. One show cannot be the best show ever made while the other show is the worst. That's what I'm trying to say. Yet, that's what the Encyclopedia ratings supposedly have.
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Again, I'll admit that with the same staff the odds are better but its certainly not impossible. Its tough to really give a counter arguement here when you dont really have an original arguement except saying it is. There are a million reasons why it could happen.
It sounds kinda like youre backtracking now anyway so w/e. If at this point all your saying is that one wont be the best ever and the other the worst ever, okay maybe. Its still possible though unlikely. Really though I highly doubt that any series people rate worst ever is truely the worst ever anyway. |
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bahamut623
 Posts: 1463 |
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Actually, Betterman and GGG are part of the same continuity. Some characters have crossed over in other media (audio dramas, novels, etc.). And GaoGaiGar Final-Grand Glorious Gathering includes some elements from Betterman. (Read the Wiki entry for GaoGaiGar for more info)
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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Wow, this makes so much sense. I think that GaoGaiGar (from the first couple DVDs) plays on so many conventions of the super robot genre, and it's now obvious why. This is one of the main reasons why I find GGG fairly typical and not amazing. I will most likely at this point finish the series if the second half ever gets a R1 release. Betterman on the other hand is a very unique series. It doesn't remind me of Gundam, Votoms or any of the other real robot staples that many newer shows remind me of. It sounds as if the director understood what you stated on this thread. Being a big real robot fan I can really appreciate the strange supernatural and horror hybrid that makes Betterman unique. I suppose I should not be surprised that the general public didn't like this series since most real robot shows are aimed at a niche audience. I do recall a previous thread regarding the time lines of these two series a few months ago which piqued my interest in GaoGaiGar a bit. I also have seen countless posts on how the second half of GaoGaiGar is so much better than the first. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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I agree with these reasons about why GGG gets relatively high ratings. However, I for one think these are ridiculously stupid reasons to rate a show highly (pure nostalgia or traditional reasons). Incredibly stupid. I can't begin to say how stupid I think that is. Nostalgia is a fine concept but to rate a show highly on that alone, while being blind to the fact that GGG is a terrible series in nearly every other aspect, is utter doodoobrain-ness.
About GGG and Betterman being in the same continuity, I don't think so. There are some crossovers in the later GGG OAVs but what do you expect from two series that are done by 95% of the same staff (it is extremely rare to find two series where the staffs were THIS identical). Cameo crossovers and for-fun crossovers are certainly not out of the question. I agree that technically they are in the same universe because of the crossovers, but conceptually I think they don't need to be thought of as being in the same continuity. The shows have absolutely nothing to do with each other until Hinoki for fun wants to play with GGG people (I dunno which way it went...hrm, I might have some interest in such an episode though just to see more pictures of Hinoki. Well, I'll wait for the OAVs to come out before worrying about it, that's a long way off I think). |
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digitalkikka
Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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Don't forget it's your opinion that GGG is a terrible series. People can rate a show for whatever reason they want. If someone has a fun time watching a show because it reminds them of their childhood, than there's nothing wrong with that. And I'm sure no one is rating a show only for nostalgia. Of course you're always going to have the obnoxious fans, but most sane individuals are able to realize their favorite anime's weakness (I would hope). Plus, the ANN ratings should be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone has their own motives and criteria when it comes to rating a show and chances are, mine are not like yours.
I think it's a shame that there are so many hidden gems out there that get little to no recognition. Bandai has released a few series under the radar that are now OOP leaving any new mecha fans with a limited catalog to pick from unless they want to go searching eBay (and even then it's difficult to find them). I was shocked the other day to see that Brain Powered and Pilot Candidate were OOP and that Betterman has been discontinued as well (and a few others are probably close to going OOP too). Of course ADV has a decent catalog to pick from, but the impossible-to-find 11th and 12th discs of Dunbine and the going-OOP Gasaraki and Mazinkaiser make it difficult... unless you're looking for something like Gravion. This year we'll be seeing a couple new series like Innocent Venus and probably ZEGAPAIN (I don't think we've heard a release date yet) but I think it's sad that they are getting little attention and everyone only cares to hear when Code Geass will be announced... Wow, sorry I'm going OT  . I agree with your points on Betterman and it's atmosphere and uniqueness that set it apart from the other series available. It was one of those shows that, through patience, one could find a lot of good qualities in. I think I might have to re-watch it now  .
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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It hasn't been officially solicited yet, but it looks like it will be coming out in July. |
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Iwatch2muchanime
 Posts: 1291 |
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Good thing too, I was saddened to hear almost nobody was looking forward to Zegapain which really was one of the highlights of last year's line-up. One of the best Mech shows I've seen in a LONG time (excluding Code Geass). Just wish Platinum Ordian got more buzz. |
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