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Ultimatum
 Posts: 163 |
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I loved Nier, since I thought it had a great cast, an interesting plot, an amazing OST, and spoiler[ a nice twist that really put things in perspective ], but I'm still on the fence on Drakenguard 3. I read an LP of Drakenguard 1, and it...didn't seem like my kind of game. Or anybody's type of game, really, which was almost certainly the point.
It was interesting, from a terrible-things-happen-to-terrible people perspective, and I enjoyed it the way I enjoyed Evangelion, but it didn't seem like the type of thing I'd want to invest fifty hours and a bucket of tears in. In other words, it felt like Nier just sort of patted the player on the head and said: "Aren't you silly, spoiler[ thinking you were doing the right thing?"] while Drakenguard seemed to actively want to destroy the player and everything s/he holds dear. Should I expect more of the same from Drakenguard 3, or is Yoko Tano in a slightly better mood? |
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Dmysta3000
 Posts: 50 |
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Speaking of Lightning Returns the English demo is now available to Xbox Gold members. (I imagine it will be up normally and on PSN next week)
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13235 |
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I must be the only person who thinks Other M improved the Metroid franchise.
Turning Samus into an actual character was never going to go over well. She was such a non-character beforehand that fans could imagine her as being whatever they wanted her to be (some kind of unfeeling badass killing machine appears to be the most common view). So when Other M showed a Samus different from that image, of course they were going to complain. I always roll my eyes at the whole sexist thing. People are so dead set on calling it sexist that they can only see it in terms of "a man is ordering around a woman." Take sex out of it entirely and you'd see it for what it is: A military officer allowing a civilian to stick around so long as they cooperate, and said cilivian listening to that officer because the officer is some one the civilian trusts and looks up to. |
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Dmysta3000
Posts: 50 |
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Drakengard 3 is slightly less bleak then DG1 and Neir (in fact there is a LOT more humor in this game compared to the rest of the series) but still can get pretty dark and depressing at times. spoiler[The final ending of the game is actually a Good End but rember that True Final boss in DG1? Yeah, they brought it back, and somehow made it far, FAR worse.] Also Mikhail is utterly adorable 
Anyways, planning on getting both this and Lighting returns, both look fun in their own respective ways |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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A good chunk of it has to due with line delivery, the English dub was almost on Resident Evil 1 levels of bad, yet Other M lacked the referenced games' charm. There are reasons why Mario and Link are still effectively mute protagonists in there main series games, and it is due to the nature that they act as complete player avatars and frankly don't need to comment on there own unusual adventures, I don't need said characters individual monologue on there observation on there crazy situation because it is occurring right in front of the players eyes. Even if we ignore that Other M is deemed as a "bad Metroid game", we can't exactly call Other M as a strong story on its own because at best it is mediocre with an outside specialist (the player) cooperating with a bunch of token space marines that exist pretty much to die over the course of events to create a ham fisted "mystery" plot that is as mysterious as the Alphabet to a native English speaker. Side note, Quick Time Events are a cancerous design growth in video games in general, and Other M didn't exactly improve on the formula. |
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Ultimatum
Posts: 163 |
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Oh, that's good to know. I might pick it up then, if my wallet's not stretched too tight with all the other releases in February and March. I'm actually pretty interested in seeing what kind of gruesome monsters they can come up with. And that dragon is adorable! It's not a baby dragon, is it? Drakenguard doesn't care much for kiddies... |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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[quote="Vaisaga"]I must be the only person who thinks Other M improved the Metroid franchise.
Plus it's just not a good Metriod game. Beyond the rather boring and bad story. It just lacks the intricate level design of what a Metriod should have. It's so damn linear with little quality exploration.
Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13235 |
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I think the dub was fine. Yeah, the monologues were kinda flat (I'm amused people complain about that since it makes her come across as the stoic everyone thinks she should be), but I look at them as her giving a report, and you're not supposed to emote when giving those. In the scenes when she actually had to be emotional she did just fine. As for there being monologues at all, Samus has been doing that since Super Metroid. She spends most of her time alone on desolate planets and she's gotta talk to some one. I still say Other M has a leg up on most other Metroid games for actually attempting to have a story beyond "You're on an alien planet. Go kill things." As a huge fan of Fusion, I was particularly interested in getting to see Adam and the story around him. And as much as people complain about the Ridley thing, the lead up to that battle had me pumped. Throw in the awesome new version of his theme and I say it's the best Ridley battle in the franchise. For once he actually felt like a threat that needed to be taken out rather than just that guy that shows up because it's in his contract.
Well, he was. Samus is still an outsider and as the commander Adam needs to keep a firm hold on the situation.
Dude roasted her parents when she was a kid. It's stranger if she didn't have some sort of reaction to him. Besides, all the prior Ridleys were the same one until he finally died in Super Metroid. Samus thought her nightmare was over and finally put it behind her. But when she sees him alive again it all comes flooding back. No matter how experience she is, she's still human. 5 seconds later she's ramming her arm cannon down his throat, so yeah.
No stupider than her losing her powers because she sneezed too hard like in the other games. Besides, if Samus is such an experienced and bad ass bounty hunter, she don't need no stinkin' power ups! As soon as she loses contact with Adam, it's not like she's all "OH NO WHAT DO I DO ADAM ISN'T HERE TO TELL ME!!!" Instead she's all "Any objections, Adam?" and unlocks her own power ups. |
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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But that dosen't matter. They are in a special situation. The entire logic behind it is well I need to trust you Samus(even though I already should trust you) so I need to limit your powers. What? So you're telling me that in this special situation they are in, Adam thinks it's better to just limit her abilities and not exploit them for their advantage. Is Adam an idiot? And he does this even though all previous backstory and knowledge would suggest that Samus really is quite good at her job. It's not like her legacy is unknown. So Adam thinks it's best not to hear her out and limit her powers? I don't care how you explain it, it's really dumb. It's solely there to explain a Metriod troupe, but it makes everyone in the story seem like idiots. Your saying Other M is good because it simply has a story, but what if the story is bad? We're already 15 mins in and the game his pulled something so stupid that it has already broken it's since of disbelief. The story from the begining is already bad. Hours latter it will just add boring.
No, it's just hack writing. They wanted to have that scene where she comes face to face with her nightmares and grows past it, but it's too late. I'm sorry, the other games happen. I'm sorry you didn't put story in them, but Samus is a formed character now. Going back just seems pretty bad. You want to say it's because she should have a reaction and because she thought it was over. She should have a reaction, but not like it's the first time she fought Ridley. It should be surprise, but also of "lets do this". I'm not scared of you, I'm confident and I can beat you". Because Samus is supposed to be a confident and experienced fighter. Not someone who trembles at the slightest thing that happens like she does in Other M. You're Samus dosen't seem like the Samus that was in the other games at all.
Yeah I'm sorry. It was a pretty poor game. |
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Krotchstak
Posts: 94 |
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I would love to have a new Metroid game. I know Sakamoto can do good by this series, but certainly not as head writer or even creative director.
Samus' voice doesn't come across as stoic. It comes across as braindead (and the writing really, really doesn't help). That's a legitimate shame, because the voice actress is fairly good - Sakamoto WANTED her to perform the character that way. Whether he really knew how it sounded in English is an open question, but it still sucks. I do agree that the rest of the dub is fine. But that's where our agreements end. Now, before I get into this, I want to link you to this. It's long, I know, but it's a complete breakdown of all the various problems that Other M has as a story, scene-by-scene. It (barely) touches gameplay. A lot of what I'm about to say below is in there, and much more. I really encourage giving it a read. The author can be a bit a aggressive, but his points are spot on. Now then. Other M is a travesty of a game at practically every level. The plot is poorly-told (MONOLOGUES! ABOUT THINGS WE CAN SEE HAPPENING!), full of holes, and anything interesting about it is derivative of Fusion's story (and, in fact, kind of ruins it). To add insult to injury, this plot is SHOVED down the player's throat - the incredibly long, poorly-acted cutscenes are unskippable the first time through. The game is an awful Metroid game, being linear to a fault and involving practically zero real exploration of any kind. Strip it of any Metroid standards, and it's a barely competent action game, which is the highest praise I can give it. And yes, Other M IS sexist. I'll link you to this, which is much shorter than my first link and specifically addresses the sexism in the game, but most hardcore defenders of Other M have already read it. Anyways, I know the term "sexism" gets bandied around a lot in gaming criticism, but in this case, it is ENTIRELY true. Samus is absurdly weak as a character. She literally accomplishes nothing of importance - all the major enemies are beaten BY SOMEBODY ELSE, including the Deleter, Ridley, and the entire area full of Metroids - and she often needs rescuing by the various male leads (there are a good three times this happens). She is constantly second-guessing herself and bowing completely to the non-existent authority of Adam. She is literally just "there" for the entire game. It's actually kind of obvious that Sakamoto wanted to create a game about Adam, but felt he had to strip Samus of any strength to convincingly make him a hero. And, throughout all of this, Samus' femininity is endlessly emphasized, both through fanservice and dialogue. THE BABY THE BABY THE BABY. Samus aside, all the other female characters in the game are submissive and compliant non-entities - even the one that's the director of a science research facility. Ugh. As for Ridley, the most common defense is of course PTSD. Too bad the game never establishes (even through a FLASHBACK) that he killed her parents. That manga is very, very obscure. It's a weak excuse anyways, because she has killed Ridley fives times previously. Even if you don't consider the Prime games "canon" (for some unfathomable reason), she's still fought and killed him twice. At this point, it shouldn't register as any more than mild surprise. AND Sakamoto directed Zero Mission, a game that had Samus emoting in cutscenes and such, and her FIRST BATTLE with Ridley registered...nothing. So he's being inconsistent. Look, Metroid Prime is my favourite game of all time, but I hold Super Metroid up on an equally high pedestal and adore the Metroid franchise in general. Other M is a bad nightmare that should only be remembered as precisely how not to make a story-driven Metroid game. Last edited by Krotchstak on Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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It might be convincing if we lived in a world where other (better) games didn't exist that displayed different ways to express a stoic hero. Hell, even a stoic hero is usually slightly snarky in there own mind in a noticeable way, yet it could be argued that the Samus in Other M was written with the rather draconic mind set that she is secretly a Yamato Nadeshiko type who just coincidently goes on missions to blow up aliens, it would explain why she is so subservient in action when clearly a situation would more than warrant her to use higher fire power before "getting permission". That said, it is noticeable that Samus was written as a "woman" first (as far as Japanese social expectations are concerned) and other character traits being secondary in the dialogue, so her history as an experienced space warrior (note that the concept of bounty hunter is either too foreign or if understood considered an overly shady occupation in Japanese society) is in practice a foreign concept where clearly her personal history would more than warrant her to share personal observation on the situation even if she is technically an outsider to the circle of space marines in the context of the mission. |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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Not at all. I vastly prefer Other M to the Prime series. The Prime games ignored all the story, lore, and character of the franchise in favor of a typical first person shooter games, which I found very disappointing as I do not care for shooters. Metroid is unfortunately a franchise with a strong dichotomy, unlike Mario and Zelda. Americans had little interest in Metroid until Prime, and Prime became the best selling games of the franchise in America. America is very fond of shooters so that is no real surprise. Meanwhile in Japan, the Prime games are the lowest selling, while all the side scrolling games sold more, which is understandable given Japan is not that into shooters. In this case there's very little way to please both countries at once. I will be sad to see the franchise revert back to it's shooter days, but I think Fusion was a great send-off, so if that is truly the last Japanese Metroid game, then I can accept that. People can simply choose to ignore all the western-developed games just as I do for Silent Hill. The best one can hope for is for them to alternate games so Americans can have their alternate-universe with Prime and fans of the original games can have that universe. Also unfortunately, the dichotomy is not helped by the hot button issue of focus on sexism in the American video game journalism community. Samus has always been a character which played up the fanservice and sexuality, which is often considered a bad thing in American culture, but what I'm personally confused over is why this is considered a new development by some arguments. Samus has always been this way, but in a lot of arguments I see from western fans she was originally a 'badass' which was depowered. Perhaps that was how she was in the Prime series, as I only played halfway through the first one before losing interest, but in all the canon games, as well as various manga adaptations, that does not really fit with how she actually was portrayed in the normal canon. Seeing Samus in her underwear was a reward for beating the first game, and became a recurring thing for all games, except Prime, to come. |
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Rahxephon91
Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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The Prime games are anything but typical First Person Shooters.
What the hell are you talking about? You're post reads like one wrong and very "hail nippon" bent post. Yep it's true that Americans only love shooters even though the 2d games on average sell better here. Nope, Americans just love fps games and nothing else. I don't even know where to begin with whats wrong with that. It's simply not true. And to say Samus has always been seen as a sex object? Not really. You see her in basically bikinis and she's drawn to look attractive that's very much it. But the series dosen't play up her sexuality. And again, these people who defend TNA and cry about the sex argument get it wrong. You seem to think it's really just about the presentation of TNA. Even though no part of this discussion has talked about that. It's been solely about how she has been characterized and her role in comparison to men. None of the other Metriod games put her in a weaker or subservient role to men and she's not characterized as weak is most other games. Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:46 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ShatteredWorld
 Posts: 265 Location: ATL |
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Never played Other M before, but I've seen a few walkthrough videos. Really didn't seem that bad at all. I'd rather the personality from Other M as opposed to the one we usually get from Samus
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AiddonValentine
 Posts: 2298 |
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Because it's exploiting an issue in order to demonize someone, thus making their argument seem like it has more weight than it really does. Heck, like I said, we really don't KNOW how much Sakamoto did. And from the track record of OTHER 3rd parties who worked with Nintendo reporting no trouble, I can't help but feel that if anything Sakamoto was probably TOO lenient on Team Ninja. It also doesn't help that TN's Ninja Gaiden 3 was derided for a LOT of things...including having a terrible story. Not very hard to be suspicious with that.
I WOULD believe that people are being sincere with the accusations of sexism with Other M, if it weren't for the fact that only THIS game is deserving of sexist derision for some reason. Any other game gets off scot-free or at least has TONS of defenders, and THIS is where people are suddenly so sensitive to the representation of female characters? Seriously guys, you're not fooling anyone. Last edited by AiddonValentine on Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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