Forum - View topicBest World-Building Tournament: Concluded!
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rheiders
 Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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Group C-17
Gold Crown Town, Princess Tutu Noein seems really cool and I don't have a strong opinion about this match either way, but I'll go with the show I've seen because of the way the setting is the story itself. Group C-18 Ikebukuro, Durarara!! I disagree that this show could have been set anywhere. Ikebukuro is given a unique vibe and color that sets it apart from other urban settings. It's a character in its own right, and it's the characters who form it and make it interesting. The rumors and urban legends weave together to form a complex culture and mythology within this district of the city. It's easily the best example of an urban fantasy setting in anime that I've seen, and for that it definitely deserves my vote. Group C-19 Prester, Last Exile Maybe if it included more of what eventually gets explained in the manga, Trigun would be more of a contender for me. As it stands, they leave out a lot in favor of telling a simpler and more concise story. While I think this generally serves the story better, for this tournament it's a weakness. Meanwhile, Prester is a very interesting world in its own right. Love the differences between the classes and the way steampunk elements are integrated into the society. The visual style, with its weirdly harmonious blend of 2D and CG elements, complements the world-building nicely, too. Group C-20 Solar System, Cowboy Bebop Going against my nomination because I think Gargantia is a bit bland and cliche compared to Bebop, which has a vast setting that includes an array of different cultures and has a very unique and pervasive atmosphere. |
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Galap
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Group C-17
Gold Crown Town, Princess Tutu vs. Noein Multiverse, Noein – to your other self Noein has real depth in both the development of the fantastical locales such as Lacrima and Shangri-La (which is an eerie mixture of misty plains, abandoned marble buildings, and weird hindu god-esque statue forms), and also the development of the more familiar present of Hakodate Japan. It’s also does worldbuilding in the classic science fiction sense of “what would be the consequences if X were true,” where in this case X is macroscopic coherence of quantum effects. I think that people are really selling this one short in this matchup. Group C-18 Ikebukuro, Durarara!! vs. Humankind Empire Abh, Crest/Banner of the Stars franchise Humankind Empire Abh has a pretty interesting space opera setting, with cool ideas like the conflicts between humanity and their ‘children’ the Abh. What really does it for me is that across all the different series, the presentation is very different each time in both mood and scale. Group C-19 Gunsmoke, Trigun vs. Prester, Last Exile Gunsmoke is very successful at creating depth and interest into what could have just been a somewhat futuristic dusty west. When we learn the nature of Vash and the Plants, along with the sense of slow progress in the world, the colonists starting to get on their feet and terraform their new home, it really shines through as an odd but well constructed world and society. Group C-20 Solar System, Cowboy Bebop vs. Gargantia, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet Pretty difficult matchup for me. Bebop was certainly better in terms of the low-key and visceral world building, in which we get the sense of the atmosphere and culture of this future, but Gargantia played with really big ideas (though they were secondary in importance), and developed meaningful themes through these unique ideas. The divergent paths of humanity into Ledo’s people and the Hideauze, along with the aesthetic designs of each was really interesting, as was the setting of Gargantia itself. It was clearly a very well thought through setting with a lot of complexity and nuance. Shame the story wasn’t stronger. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9135 Location: New Hampshire |
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Group C-17
Gold Crown Town, Princess Tutu vs. Noein Multiverse, Noein – to your other self Seen neither, but everyone seems to love Tutu, and they've made some compelling arguments in this and the last tournament, so I'm voting for Gold Crown Town Group C-18 Ikebukuro, Durarara!! vs. Humankind Empire Abh, Crest/Banner of the Stars franchise again, haven't seen either show, so based on arguments, I'm voting for Humankind Empire Abh Group C-19 Gunsmoke, Trigun vs. Prester, Last Exile haven't seen Last Exile and only seen 3 episodes of Trigun, so based on arguments, I'm voting for Prester Group C-20 Solar System, Cowboy Bebop vs. Gargantia, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet[/quote] finally, two shows I have seen. I'm voting for Solar System because I feel we saw and learned more of Bebop's world than we did of Gargantia's |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18462 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group C is now closed.
Yes, amazingly, I am actually getting this done on schedule for a change! With 14 votes in, the results: C-17: Gold Crown Town enchants Noein into submission, 12-2. C-18: Humankind Empire Abh fights off Ikebukuro, 9-5. C-19: Prester grounds Gunsmoke, 10-4. C-20: Gargantia floats past Solar System, 8-6. The winners in each match were in the lead from the beginning and for the entire week, even though C-20 ended up tight. I see the results here as setting up one power match-up next time which should decide the Group winner and one solid pairing that is is only second-tier by comparison. Will definitely be interesting to see how certain people vote the C-21 match-up. Next Group should be up shortly. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18462 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group D is now closed.
Results can be found here. We have some very interesting match-ups here, especially D-20; I particularly want to see some detailed arguments there from the probably small number of participants who, like me, have seen both, as both have really strong arguing points. At least two, and maybe three, of these match-ups I can see going either way. Group D-17 Neo-Verona, Romeo x Juliet vs. Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes Group D-18 World of Castle in the Sky, Laputa: Castle in the Sky vs. Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex franchise Group D-19 Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne (TV series) vs. World of Pokemon, Pokemon franchise Group D-20 Daikuuriku, Simoun vs. Glie, Haibane Renmei Last edited by Key on Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Group D-17
Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes Past arguments for this have impressed me more than Neo-Verona did in the episodes of RxJ that I have seen. Group D-18 Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex franchise GitS took out my expected winner and, while I am sad for the minigame, I do think the setting sounds pretty damn cool (yes, I know, I need to get around to seeing this). And the Castle in the Sky world that isn't Laputa makes that entry not as strong as it could have been, though I probably wouldn't have voted any differently even if just Laputa was competing (though that thing was pretty damn cool). Group D-19 Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne (TV series) I'll keep going with Gaea since I'm not convinced Pokemon is really that great an entry and, even though Gaea has flaws too, it is still a pretty interesting and diverse world that is had a fair amount of craft put into its development Group D-20 Daikuuriku, Simoun Yikes. I haven't seen either of these (actually, I saw the first two episodes I think of Haibane years ago but I don't remember it well) but both settings sound really interesting and worthy of moving forward (and no doubt crushing the D-19 winner). I read the guide entries over and over before finally deciding who to vote for but I am definitely going to be reading arguments from those who've seen it carefully to make sure I still agree with it later. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4159 |
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Group D-17
Neo-Verona, Romeo x Juliet vs. Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes Legend of the Galactic Heroes is the only series in group D I haven't seen and it hasn't been licensed and I'm not sure if it's streaming anywhere ... where was I supposed to have seen this again? So I gather it's too massive, too inclusive for outsiders to enter easily while Neo-Verona is Shakespeare on an alien planet with a bit of swashbuckler action thrown in. And flying islands. And giants trees. And flying horses... Is there anything about this series that doesn't feel like it's borrowed from other stories to fill out its runtime? I remember the bit about convicts setting up a farming village being original, why they felt it necessary {they were mostly males so how would that work?} I have no idea... Legend of Galactic Heroes Milky Way over Neo-Verona though I do believe if it was as good as people say it'd be a little more available. Group D-18 World of Castle in the Sky, Laputa: Castle in the Sky vs. Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex franchise World of Castle in the Sky over Japan 2030; I loved the broken robot/golem thing which was treated as an inhuman threat eventually to savior by the main characters while the self-sacrifice of the tachikoma was treated as "Well, that happened" from the main character, herself a self-declared human soul in a robot body. Isn't it weird that Laputa had a better take on "value of life in the machines" than the series that wanted so much to exemplify the concept and, on top of that it's a fantasy movie where it wasn't even its main concept? Also, air pirates that actually do pirate things. Group D-19 Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne (TV series) vs. World of Pokemon, Pokemon franchise OK, I liked the original Pokemon game but I felt that it and the show really got out of control after the designs stopped being pleasingly clean counter creatures and monsters; First they went cartoonish, then they went ugly. Gaea has an overall conceit that isn't about selling a series of outlandish games that have to get incorporated into the anime whether they fit in or not, such as Tracy and Pokémon Snap. Gaea over World of Pokemon. Not much of a contest, really... Group D-20 Daikuuriku, Simoun vs. Glie, Haibane Renmei Daikuuriku over Glie; You can wonder all you want about what's outside those walls or why only some of the beings have wings or why ... everything really, even the idea of jobs without money seems more "wishy-washy" than meaningful, and it's not like you'd get any answers. Against that, you have an alien world with direction and meaning that's unambiguous as well as ambitious. |
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Ghost_Wheel
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Too bad I didn't get a chance to vote last week. All my nominations and most of my favorites have gotten sidelined at this point.
D-17: LoGH Milky Way Made sure to finish the series in time for this vote. All I have to say for now is that this show has a lot of time to develop its world and uses it extremely well. A single season would square off well against any of the competitors here. D-18: Japan 2030 Tough choice for me here, as I have yet to get more than a few episodes into Ghost in the Shell, and while I do love Castle in the Sky, GitS seems like it has a ton of potential. What's worse, they seem to be good for entirely different reasons, making them more difficult to compare. I'll give it to GitS by a nose because I can extrapolate from what I've heard about it. D-19: Gaea I know that spoiler tags don't really have much use in this thread, but I think in this case I'll bust one out, because I will be going into major conceptual spoilers: spoiler[The fact that Gaea is a normal fantasy world which derives a lot of its technology from the alchemy of Isaac Newton is something which is particularly compelling to me. Isaac journeyed to a world where his theories were true, and from that clay, he was able to shape a society in his image. Through watching the show, you can see evidence of what the society was like before Newton; a natural fantasy world in which these laws had a passive effect on society. You can also see to what extent the integration of science and technology did to the world and its communities. The resulting society is pretty unique, with mech designs funtionally closer to Honneamise spaceships than something like code geass Knightmares, astrology, fortune telling and alchemy handled in a very Foundation-like way. The world isn't the entirely of what's great about the show, but it is intriguing, unique, and certainly where I derived a lot of my enjoyment.] D-20: Daikuuriku If it's anything like Geneshaft, as the votes in that round seemed to insinuate, it's something I should probably check out sometime. Guide entries and arguments seem to support this too. |
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zawa113
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Wow, I've seen most of the worlds on here, so there are actually all easy votes for me, really.
But real quick @Animegomaniac, the reason LoGH is probably never going to come over here is because LoGH isn't just a ridiculously long OVA. It's an additional 60 episodes of side OVAs, 3 movies, and it's based on 11 novels that Japan seems to have insisted for years be bundled together with the anime. And there's like manga and tons of other side stuff. And it doesn't help that it's a 90s space opera, it doesn't exactly have the wide spread appeal of something like Sailor Moon where it being 100+ episodes is ok. So... yeah, I'd totes buy if it ever came out over here, but it'd take a Christmas Miracle (please? pleeaaasssse??) In the meantime, no one is watching it through legit means, but it has less to do with quality than to do with politics. D-17: Legend of the Galactic Heroes Milky Way Few series have the deep history of this series. And battles? They rely on the geography established in the series. Big time. It's easily the best space setting in this entire competition because when I was watching that show, I was just living and breathing in its Milky Way. D-18: Castle in the Sky Either way, I'm going for LoGH next, but between GITS and Laputa.... well, honestly, this is in part because all I remember of my attempt to watch GITS is The Major shoving her bum towards the camera. It's not fair, but it's kind of how I view the whole world. One giant bum. So, despite not being a Miyazaki fan, Laputa is still my favorite of his movies, and it is mostly because of the world. Which, yeah, is a lot of atmosphere, but those robots are awesome. D-19: Pokemon World We all live ~ in a Pokemon world PO-KE-MON! But seriously, I do have a vacation home there. In Verdanturf. Once again, I'm probably talking about the games here, but the anime is nothing if not willing to steal all its plot lines from the game. And the game has waaay more myths and legends than you might think. So it's got that going for it first off. Then there's of course all the magic fighting monsters and the complex battle system. Gen V had this cool thing where every gym had its own unique theme in White2/Black2, but even then, gyms have had unique outer designs for a couple gens now (and they've always had unique indies) But it really does help give each city a unique feel based on its gym theme. On the other hand, I rather remember Gaea as just another fantasy world. But with mecha. Still, it could've been Byston Well ala Garzey's Wing and the only thing I could honestly tell you is different is that only one is populated with complete idiots and Tomino's off phase. Sure, Gaea has the whole spoiler[destiny & fate thingy], but I never thought it meshed well enough for me to think of it as a positive. I should go play a 90s RPG. D-20: Daikuuriku Yeah, I'm not having much trouble on this one. Part of it, as others have said, is that Glie mostly relies on not showing you things, which is fine for building atmosphere, sure, but not a well established world. I finally got a PS3, and this recently played Journey and Brothers, both are short indie games with incredible atmosphere, but have very little in explaining its world all the same. Which is a shame as there are definitely things I'd like to know (seriously though, play those both). Sure, I said Laputa above had more atmosphere than explanation, but I also think it's up against a weaker opponent. Daikuuriku, on the other hand, establishes all sorts of political things, magic places (like the magic spring thingy), has lots of attention put into the giant flying space ship thing, lots of stuff. Things outside of the country aren't as well known, but we're following our mains in their country, so I don't see a problem there. For a limited time, only you, too, can buy all of Simoun for under $10 for the holiday! Over at Right Stuf, naturally. So... for anyone going "I should check this out", who can't use it a cart topper? (Well, this is the holiday sale, so it probably won't be a cart topper, but something you add on to the other inevitable $200 you're going to spend) |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18462 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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That was explained quite clearly in the series. The goal was to get the village up and running first and then bring their families there. And they were doing it there because they did not feel that they had a place anywhere else.
That was never the goal/point of any of the GITS titles, so let's not entirely misrepresent the franchise just to justify a vote. And now for my actual votes: Group D-17 Neo-Verona, Romeo x Juliet vs. Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes Neo-Verona is definitely worthy of getting this far, as the design of the city has few equals in fantasy anime. However, I will agree with the point that it feels like it is borrowing many of its ideas from other sources and the mechanics of the setting are nothing too impressive. Thus I am still giving Milky Way Galaxy the benefit of the doubt for now. LOGH fans are going to need to present some stronger arguments for the next two rounds, however. Group D-18 World of Castle in the Sky, Laputa: Castle in the Sky vs. Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex franchise Japan 2030 is arguably the most fully-realized cyberpunk setting in any movie/TV medium, not just anime. The setting is one of the very rare ones in visual science fiction which can genuinely be regarded as visionary, and certainly no other anime setting explores the potential of cybernetics with so much thought and detail. That simply overwhelms the merits that Laputa had. Group D-19 Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne (TV series) vs. World of Pokemon, Pokemon franchise Probably the weakest pairing of this entire round, and the winner here will undoubtedly get stomped by whomever wins D-20. I still maintain that Gaea is only a typical example of a fantasy world, so I will continue to give the edge to World of Pokemon for one more round. Group D-20 Daikuuriku, Simoun vs. Glie, Haibane Renmei If D-19 is, indeed, the weakest match of the round then D-20 is the strongest, as both of these deserve to at least make it to the Group Finals. As someone who's seen both, I will do a breakdown of the chief merits of each: Daikuuriku 1. Possibly the most original sci fi/fantasy setting in the tournament. 2. Mechanics of the setting allow for the exploration of some intriguing and high-minded concepts. 3. Fantastic ship designs. 4. Delves into religious, political, military, and gender identity aspects of society. Glie 1. No title in the tournament is more purely focused on its world-building than this one. 2. Explores its setting in minute detail while still leaving an air of mystery about why everything is the way it is. 3. Superb visual detail in its settings. 4. Successfully integrates an air of the fantastic into setting elements that mostly seem very ordinary. This is a really tough call, and I would be happy with either advancing, but I will give the slight edge to Daikuuriku strictly based on the fact that it helped put its series on my Top 10 of the 2000s list while Glie and HR were a near-miss. EDIT: And if Right Stuf really is selling all of Simoun that cheap then you'd be a fool not to pick it up. The series is good enough that I can virtually guarantee that you'll be quite satisfied with what you're getting for that. Last edited by Key on Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Thanks for the shopping tip, classicalzawa, I just ordered Simoun as well as the second half of Rose of Versailles
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4159 |
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Without it, it's a technological crime drama - I didn't point out that the "detective" was more advanced than most of the tech in the TV series. I implied it though {They were stuck with the "supertech" because of the movie}. And then there's this:
Except where it doesn't. AI developing self awareness? "Can't be bothered for I am more important than they are, being a consciousness placed in a artificial body and clearly superior. Kill 'em all." The series works because, wait, I didn't think it worked because I never saw how it pulled its head out of its *** to see its own hypocrisy in the end. I could also say that my largest complaint with cyberpunk as a concept isn't the technological element but the human part; I could swear they use a dartboard to decide how people will react to "being wired" or exposed to "future shock". Here's the thing: It's always negative in order to have a story but the reactions have to vary in order to ... not be boring or fall in a rut. I don't believe people are that varied. I'm really not a fan of the series. I thought the movie was, what's the word, fun? After Stand Alone Complex {the part of franchise explicitly being considered}, I can barely remember enjoying the concept. I watched two episodes of the second season before realizing that I didn't have to put up with her anymore if I just stopped altogether. Quite the relief. I could do more, the series certainly merits a good thrashing from someone but I'm just trying to validate why I would choose the Miyazaki film with the most interesting world over, whatever "Stand Alone Complex" is. As for Romeo + Juliet, the "They" initially was for the creators of the show as it's not as if it went anywhere, especially considering the following "plot twists" though I got distracted by remembering the show and forgot to spell it out. Even as padding, it seems questionable because of, well, I'll put it this way: "Come to me, my family, and we'll maybe bring a barren rock to life." Not much of an enticement in my mind. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18462 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Where is the hypocrisy in GITS:SAC? And are you going to flat-out deny that the series does extensively explore the possibilities inherent in the cybernetic world there? The very concept of a "stand alone complex" is not something that I have seen brought up, much less explored, in any other anime title. That something like the stunts that the Laughing Man pulls could be done in this setting does not exist in any other anime title. (And really, I think the series goes farther with that than any other sci fi title, period.) The setting explores many different aspects of what it means to partially or totally be a cyborg; that is what it focuses on.
And remember, we're talking about the TV series here, not the original movie. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6587 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Group D-17
Neo-Verona, Romeo x Juliet vs. Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes: I've seen it and it deserves to be here (although it has shortcomings I'll mention next round) because of the epic nature of its world and the fascinating themes it derives from that world and how it explores them in depth. I haven't seen Romeo x Juliet and need a very persuasive argument to be convinced of its superior merits. Group D-18 World of Castle in the Sky, Laputa: Castle in the Sky vs. Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex franchise I've been remiss leaving it to Key to defend Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. There really isn't any contest here. Laputa is nicely imagined and explored world but it is, largely, just a backdrop to the adventures of Sheeta and Pazu. The most interesting ideas are generated by the characters, not so much the world. In contrast, GitSSAC's world is not only every bit as well imagined but the 50 odd episodes allow that world to be explored in much greater depth and detail. More telling, though, is that the franchise uses that world to explore many fascinating issues and exciting possibilities. Group D-19 Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne (TV series) vs. World of Pokemon, Pokemon franchise As in D-17 I think that Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne fully deserves to get this far, thanks to its blend of shonen & shojo elements, Newtonian philosophy, fantasy tropes and modern sensibility, which somehow cohere into a satisfying whole. Again, it's gonna need a very persuasive argument to convince me that I should vote for the series I'm not familiar with. Group D-20 Daikuuriku, Simoun vs. Glie, Haibane Renmei Like D-17 and D-19 I've seen one of these only - Haibane Renmei, which also thoroughly deserves to have reached this far - but, this time, there have been convincing arguments, so I'm voting for Daikuuriku, Simoun on the basis of those arguments. Now, guys, I'm going to watch Simoun in due course and, if it turns out the world building isn't as good as Haibane Renmei's, I will never forgive you. |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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Group D-17
Neo-Verona, Romeo x Juliet vs. Legend of GH Milky Way, Legend of the Galactic Heroes The Galactic Heroes Galaxy has to take the cake again here. I really like how the progression of events really feels like a historical document, the narration making it almost seem like a documentary on that period of time. Group D-18 World of Castle in the Sky, Laputa: Castle in the Sky vs. Japan 2030, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex franchise only seen 3 eps of GITS, and not Laputa. I think I'll give it to Laputa, because I got the impression that GITS cared more about the intrigue than the science fiction. I've seen people say both things about GITS, that it strongly developed its science ficiton themes, and also that it did not, so I'll go with what I thought based on what I've seen. I could change my vote if others were to explain in more depth how GITS explores its science fiction concepts. Group D-19 Gaea, The Vision of Escaflowne (TV series) vs. World of Pokemon, Pokemon franchise Gaea. To take a different angle, I like a lot of the little things it does, like have the months of the Gaean calendar be named after colors, like Red or Green, have them have colloquial speech, such as melef being short for guymelef (what they call the mecha), how some Earth things somehow show up in Gaea, like a CD, how the dragon heart pink matter mechs are used for mundane purposes as well, like bulldozers and backhoes, and how the weapon of mass destruction seen at the end works by bringing several masses of pink matter together, much like an atomic bomb. Group D-20 Daikuuriku, Simoun vs. Glie, Haibane Renmei Daikuuriku. It adresses more deep science fiction concepts than Haibane Renmei, which seems more metaphorical, so I'll go with Simoun. Last edited by Galap on Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:20 am; edited 3 times in total |
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