Forum - View topicBest World-Building Tournament: Concluded!
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rheiders
 Posts: 1137 Location: Colorful Colorado :) |
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Group A-17
Twelve Kingdoms, The Twelve Kingdoms I love the world of Mushishi, but I agree with others that it's a bit too disjointed to beat 12K, which provides more details and is more consistent. Group A-18 Aqua, Aria franchise I felt wholly immersed in the setting of Aria, while I didn't find Sternbild City particularly impressive past its initial premise. Others have mentioned that it feels like looking at someone else's vacation photos, but I think it feels more like you're on vacation yourself, which is a cool enough feat for me to vote for Aqua in this round. Group A-19 Land of the Beast Gods, Princess Mononoke This one's hard because I love both, and maybe my bias toward one of my favorite movies is getting in the way, but it's amazing how developed Princess Mononoke's world is given its run-time. Rich mythology, multiple factions each with complex and interesting motives, and you really feel the epic scale of it all. Meanwhile, I agree with errinundra that Chevalier's world, while interesting, never quite shakes its aura of B-movie silliness. Group A-20 World of Wolf’s Rain, Wolf’s Rain I still think it's one of the best worlds I've come across in anime, with a rich mythology steeped in symbolism, and the subtlety in the execution can't be beat. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9135 Location: New Hampshire |
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Group A-17
Twelve Kingdoms, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. World of Mushishi, Mushishi I've only seen a bit of both, and 12 K looks to be far more developed than Mushishi. vote goes to 12 Kingdoms Group A-18 Stern Bild City, Tiger and Bunny vs. Aqua, Aria franchise I've only seen Tiger and Bunny, but errinundra has convinced me that Aqua is the right choice here Group A-19 Land of the Beast Gods, Princess Mononoke vs. 18th Century France, Le Chevalier d’Eon haven't seen either but based on arguments, Mononoke looks to be the right choice Group A-20 Academy City, A Certain Magical Index franchise vs. World of Wolf’s Rain, Wolf’s Rain vs. Macross Universe, Macross franchise[/quote] I'm going with what I know, so I'm voting for Academy City |
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Group A-17
Twelve Kingdoms, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. World of Mushishi, Mushishi Twelve Kingdoms. Mushishi's world probably has the best atmosphere in this entire tournament, but atmosphere alone won't let it beat the thoroughness and realism of the Twelve Kingdoms Group A-18 Stern Bild City, Tiger and Bunny vs. Aqua, Aria franchise Haven't seen Tiger and Bunny, but what I've seen of Aria and other's arguments make me vote for Aqua. Group A-19 Land of the Beast Gods, Princess Mononoke vs. 18th Century France, Le Chevalier d’Eon 18th Century France. There is just so much going on, between countries and within the country of France itself. Group A-20 Academy City, A Certain Magical Index franchise vs. World of Wolf’s Rain, Wolf’s Rain vs. Macross Universe, Macross franchise Macross. I'm voting for the only one out of the bunch I haven't seen. Wolf's Rain has good atmosphere but because of the plot the world is never fully developed. Academy City is decent, but does a lot more telling then showing its world building. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18462 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group A is now closed.
With 15 on time and one late (Tris8's were counted because they didn't change any of the outcomes), the results: A-17: Twelve Kingdoms swept by World of Mushishi, 15-1. A-18: Aqua edged Stern Bild City with a late push, 9-7. A-19: Land of the Beast Gods went primal on 18th Century Europe, 13-3. A-20: World of Wolf's Rain outlasted Macross Universe and Academy City, 7-5-3. The A-18 match-up was close throughout but arguments supporting Aqua apparently made the difference at the end. A-20 was even after six votes but a contest between only WWR and MU after that, with WWR taking the last two to secure the win. And to answer an earlier question, yes, technically you should be giving arguments on all matches now, and I totally forgot to mention that at the beginning of the round. Next round is coming up soon. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18462 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 3 Group B is now closed.
Results can be found here. Time for some bigger clashes! How many of these will be competitive? Let's find out! Group B-17 World of Beast Player Erin, Beast Player Erin vs. New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Group B-18 World of Madoka Magica, Puella Magi Madoka Magica vs. Bath House of the Gods, Spirited Away Group B-19 Nausicaa’s Post-Apocalyptic Earth, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. World of One Piece, One Piece Group B-20 Victorian England, Victorian Romance Emma vs. Amestris, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Last edited by Key on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Beltane70
 Posts: 3972 |
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Well, this round certainly cost me heavily in the mini-game with me only having one correct prediction. It's going to take a miracle to get me out of last place at this point. At least one thing's consistent, me placing last or close to last in these mini-games!
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getchman
He started it Posts: 9135 Location: New Hampshire |
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double whammy for me. no points this round for the minigame, and my winner (Academy City) is eliminated
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Yeah, I had Spice and Wolf as the winner, oops. Oh well, it's fun to be surprised. And hurrah, Wolf's Rain advanced!
Group B-17 New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Interesting match-up for this one. I'm going with New Yogo Empire because I've heard more about Moribito in general and I think a good number of past votes for Beast Player Erin have been cast because people liked Moribito. Group B-18 World of Madoka Magica, Puella Magi Madoka Magica As I said before, Spirited Away didn't leave a great impression on me, while Madoka Magica did. I think it has an excellent execution of slowly revealing the world to both the characters and the audience (in oppose to something like 12 Kingdoms, which I think will eventually fall because execution is the show's greatest weakness). Group B-19 World of One Piece, One Piece Nausicaa looks like another "Miyazaki" world, though since it came before Castle in the Sky, this hurts it less for me. One Piece does sound like a very fun world, showing why it is one of the few shounen shows that sparks my interest every now and then (I definitely would have watched it by now if it wasn't so damn long). Group B-20 Amestris, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Emma hasn't impressed too much in previous rounds so I'll go with FMA for now. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4159 |
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Group B-17
World of Beast Player Erin, Beast Player Erin vs. New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit It's one thing when series from the same creator go head to head, it's a whole different problem when anime series coming from the same novelist go head to head. So, what do we have here? Medieval Asian light fantasy ... versus Medieval Asian light fantasy [facepalm]. Wait, I got a coin here somewhere... Seriously, may as well go by episode count since if you're going to try to create a visual presentation strictly from words, you need enough space to properly construct it; A picture may be a thousand words but a moving picture can be anything. World of Beast Player Erin over New Yogo Empire but I have to admit that having seen Moribito, I have little interest in watching Beast Player Erin even if there are a surprising lack of samurai and ninja posing as "I'm not a samurai or a ninja" warriors and guards. Group B-18 World of Madoka Magica, Puella Magi Madoka Magica vs. Bath House of the Gods, Spirited Away Now this is interesting; Both coming of age stories, one set in the realistic fantasy bath house of the land of a million Gods, the other a futuristic ... no, wait, the plot, characters and delusional "witch realm" are a lot more interesting than the actual setting which is incidental; The only reason the main world is set in the future is to create a sense of dislocation in the viewer, a feat which Spirited Away manages to do just by going through a tunnel. Even the show description seems more inclined to favor the ever shifting plot and "universal rules" as a reason to vote for Madoka rather than the world all this inhabits. Bath House of the Gods over "lots of words" Madoka. Group B-19 Nausicaa’s Post-Apocalyptic Earth, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. World of One Piece, One Piece Ok, here we go: Here's my biggest gripe with One Piece; It's a series of open ended imagination, precisely because it's open ended. After eighty episodes, I got tired of it because I literally couldn't see where it was going; Sure "Here there be monsters" is fine and all to describe exploratory adventures into parts unknown but following that up with "Here there be further monsters", "Here there some more monsters", "Surprise, more monsters!" and "Here there be monsters that make you wish they were back to those other monsters!", you get the sense that the guy is just, just maybe, making this world up arc from arc. In comparison, Nausicaa has giant bug monsters and sticks with it. Nice! Nausicaa's Post-Apocalyptic Earth over the World of One Piece. Group B-20 Victorian England, Victorian Romance Emma vs. Amestris, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Amestris over Victorian England. I wasn't that impressed by Fullmetal Alchemist until we learned what the outside world {and that there was an outside world} thought about Amestris' policy of "Attack first, question any survivors later. Then kill them too". Sure, there were the Ishvalens but they're a conquered people inside Amestris so yeah, we know what they think and we also know they can't do much of anything about it without help. Without the outside influences, the world would seemingly perpetually form one fascist government after another until you get to the ultimate fascists, the "you know who" guys. Which is what happened in the first series. The real series is a lot more hopeful for the future as even though the government is still led by the military, the real future for the nation lies in the future families of Ed's and Al's generation {spoiler[People have often wondered why Roy and Hawkeye never got together "officially" or why other leading candidate Olivia seems destined for "Old Maid" status. Well, there's one reason for you, it doesn't work thematically.]} Emma's world in comparison has little depth or width and that's just against the first series. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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Group B-17
World of Beast Player Erin, Beast Player Erin vs. New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Candidates of this caliber should meet at a later stage, but if I have to choose, I suppose New Yogo Empire will be the winner here, because more participants are familiar with it, so my vote goes to World of Beast Player Erin, which is equally strong. Group B-18 World of Madoka Magica, Puella Magi Madoka Magica vs. Bath House of the Gods, Spirited Away Bath House of the Gods Apart from the magical girl stuff, Madoka’s world is the same as our contemporary world and although the mechanism is somehow interesting, it is also simple and that’s not enough for Madoka to advance any further. Group B-19 Nausicaa’s Post-Apocalyptic Earth, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. World of One Piece, One Piece World of One Piece I have heard a lot of good things about it. From what I have seen, around 20 episodes, these positive opinions may be justified, so I will give this world my vote. Group B-20 Victorian England, Victorian Romance Emma vs. Amestris, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood I have read some Fullmetal Alchemist and skimmed through the whole thing, the world seems interesting, but not all the possibilities were explored and certain things were much better in the first anime, so my vote goes to Victorian England, which manages to capture well the time period in which it is set and, for me, is more memorable. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6587 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Group B-17
World of Beast Player Erin, Beast Player Erin vs. New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit The top two in the group and a shame they've ended up pitted against each other so soon. I'm going for New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit because its pitching itself to an older audience and is therefor more sophisticated in its treatment of its world. Group B-18 World of Madoka Magica, Puella Magi Madoka Magica vs. Bath House of the Gods, Spirited Away The wonder of PMMM isn't in its cityscapes, which, like Stern Bild City last round, are little more than an attractive prop. The life cycles of the magical girls and the witches, however, are fascinating, and are almost enough to topple Bath House of the Gods, Spirited Away, which is a marvellous example of turning a limited space into a complex world. Group B-19 Nausicaa’s Post-Apocalyptic Earth, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. World of One Piece, One Piece I think Nausicaa’s Post-Apocalyptic Earth, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind thoroughly deserves to be here and, while I haven't seen a single full episode of One Piece, Animegomaniac's arguments have convinced me to stick with the film. Group B-20 Victorian England, Victorian Romance Emma vs. Amestris, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Victorian England, Victorian Romance Emma based on the arguments of people before me. I'm open to changing my vote on this one. |
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Ghost_Wheel
 Posts: 203 |
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Animegomaniac, I don't know how you do it, but every week you manage to make an argument against a show that makes me respect it's worldbuilding more. Let's get to it; this time I can actually vote on a few things.
B-17: World of Beast Player Erin Haven't seen either, but I'm going with this one because of the description. Sounds cool and well developed. B-18: World of Madoka Magica This is one I've struggled with for a while actually. At the end of the day, I've met tons of people with a much higher appreciation of Madoka than I'm willing to give it. It's not something I'm willing to vote over everything in this tournament, but I'll give it the edge here, and here's why: spoiler[One of Madoka's greatest strengths is in its overarching setting. That there are races of intelligent extraterrestrial life who have figured out how to redirect the looming problem of entropy is compelling in its own right and brings up its own series of questions. What kind of responsibility does individual have when considering the life of the species and the extremely long term future universe? In the show, one thing that particularly strikes me as a scientist is that even these modified physical laws seem like less than a zero sum game. Monkey's paw type wishes and the the emotional and physical cycle that comes with being a magical girl/witch all carry with them the sense that you can't cheat the physical system, that you can't create something from nothing, with consequences flowing as naturally as drag or friction slows down a system of bodies. The direction the show took with its characters and arcs is not the choice I would have made in order to fully explore these questions, but it's not the worst choice either, and the show wouldn't be half of what it is without this setting.] In this sense, Madoka distinguishes itself here. Bath House of the Gods has a setting which is aesthetically pleasing and foreign, but for me the world only really serves to disorient you and serve as a strange backdrop for the journey, rather than being the main focus. B-19: Nausicaa's Post-Apocalyptic Earth Unlike Bath House of the Gods, the world is really the main focus here, and it's very layered and interesting. The sci-fi elements are unique (consider everything involving the petrified forest for instance), revealed organically over time, and hint at a much larger fleshed out history. Here's hoping it goes farther so I can explain more when I have time. B-20: Amestris Amestis still deserves to go this far. The alchemy is well developed and interesting, and the show has a lot of time to develop its rather diverse regions. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4159 |
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Cool but three out of four of yours were in accord with my own selections. I've got a degree in chemistry and I've studied the concepts of quantum mechanics and entropy for many years - Do you really want me to mention spoiler[the aliens who were outsmarted by the teenage girl? Plus, entropy is inevitable and no sort of magic or science will prevent the end of the universe or its breakdown. However, the scale on which this happens makes anything and everything any intelligent lifeform would attempt to affect it meaningless. May as well try to catch Niagara Falls with a thimble.] I really try to ignore the science of Madoka with all my strength {the whole "wish process" itself makes a joke out of the Laws of Thermodynamics even by correlation, never mind action}. But maybe their ignorance and blind pride was the point and spoiler[they needed the wish of a young girl to make their plan more of a success? This isn't true because of two thing: Homura's time travel ability and Madoka's travel to witchhood which are unrelated and unknowable to even those who can see the future, not all futures apparently, yet still are dependent upon one another. Also, I can understand how Homura's action with Madoka would go and increase her capacity as a magical girl/witch, I don't see how that energy potential would affect Madoka though or why it would only focus on her. Except plotwise, of course...] |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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Group B-17
World of Beast Player Erin, Beast Player Erin vs. New Yogo Empire, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Beast player Erin seems more interesting because I get the impression that it has more uniqueness in the setup and society (haven't seen either) Group B-18 World of Madoka Magica, Puella Magi Madoka Magica vs. Bath House of the Gods, Spirited Away Worlf of Madoka Magica: For one, I never found Spirited Away's setting very interesting. It seems like it's just there for the sake of being whimsical and doesn't really add up to anything.
I'm a chemist too, and I buy what the show is doing. For one, this is a work of science fiction/ fantasy, and that means that it's normal to have a priori setups that work differently than our current physical theories dictate. The entropy aspects were what I found to be the most interesting part of the show (actually I wish it were more of the focus than it was), because it was extremely cleverly done. Kyuubey is an incarnation of Maxwell's demon (pun intended). He has the ability to reverse the entropy in a system and sort out the order and disorder. When he purifies the soul gems into the grief seeds, he's increasing the potential, because the chaos enters the seed and the order enters the gem. He's using the girls and their emotions as the fuel in a literal heat engine that counteracts the second law of thermodynamics. Brilliant. The world was interesting because this Earth is slightly different from ours. The society seems to have a wealth and abundance that ours doesn't yet, probaly due to entropic enrichment of the planet from the girls' efforts. The city is magnificent and slightly ethereal. This one wins my vote. Group B-19 Nausicaa’s Post-Apocalyptic Earth, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. World of One Piece, One Piece Nausicaa's Post-Apocalyptic Earth takes the cake for its breathtaking reimagining of biology, with the implications that all that stuff was synthetically designed to purify the planet and make it habitable for life again, though the characters don't realize this. The different cultures and their clothing aesthetics and the like are all unique, and it has a good sense of human resourcefulness in this new setting, such as them carving blades out of the ohm shells. Group B-20 Victorian England, Victorian Romance Emma vs. Amestris, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Amestris isn't as strong as a lot of other things to have made it this far, but its unique combination of turn of the 20th century technology and magic system (alchemy) with not overt but rather covert spirituality earns it my vote again. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4159 |
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Still doesn't answer why do it in the first place, still doesn't explain how Madoka was able to streamline their process by using their own methods with results they didn't care to consider {1 They're uncaring aliens or 2) They're written to be such. By the series own ending, it's 2 somehow...}. Also, I thought the whole "magical girl" trapping was to undo entropy {in a process completely unlike what Homura did; Reversing time is a cheap way of doing it, even though it's an ability given to her from them, and it has flaws of energy build-up. Even though the process ultimately saved the MG system/universe as a side result...} because they could not do it alone. I did only watch the series once around when it aired but I thought I had grasped it. I keep ending up at the result of "stupid aliens" or rather Tommyknocker techheads; Advanced beings who can create amazing mechanical things defying natural physical laws but then don't do anything worthwhile with it for anyone. Note: I can accept energy as a "thing" that can be parceled out but I consider chaos and order to be the same thing; That is, entropy has no meaning by itself, only its change {chaos and order versus neutral} and no TV show, even an anime, will convince me an alien can distill "ether" ... either. And maybe I should point out the amount of entropy Kyuubey is sowing is effectively nulling any effect he would have, especially once you start looking past the first world. Plus, with Madoka's wish and her order, the whole thing becomes a wash and guess what happens? "Demon" eliminated, right? Brilliant... Ok, I'll take a different approach {there are quite a few; It's an emotional series, not a thinking one}: Why the future? Why not use a familiar setting in a familiar time? It's not a Sci Fi series, it's a magical girl fantasy series masquerading as one {It's why they retain the "wish" aspect, the animal sidekick, the stock enemies and so on} so why the "Not too distant future"? To take the science seriously? Or is it to distance itself from the magical aspect? Unfortunately, that's the aspect I like! Rather than spoiler[artificial constructs, the one I liked is undead liches and "soul jars"] but that could be set in any time. And in the end, most of this is plot and not setting which is my main gist. The ultimate truth isn't that Kyuubey can do the impossible, it's that he thinks he can. Whether he can or not is not what the series is about, otherwise it would have been "Super Ferret Thing Kyuubey". One last thing: I didn't really care, even voted for it previously but I've only really read the synapsis this round and that is more concerned with the story than anything else; This tournament isn't meant to be voting for the series, just the setting, whatever that is in Madoka's case.
Not "world", "series". Still, I got to admit I'm having fun with this round. |
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