Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-03-23]
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
penguintruth
 Posts: 8489 Location: Penguinopolis |
|
|||
Wah, you can't afford something, you have NO CHOICE but to steal it. Hey, I can't afford a ferari. That doesn't mean I'm going to go steal one. There's a little something that nobody in America seems able to do any more - GO WITHOUT. You can't afford something? Tough. Save up for it - or else simply go without. You don't need to have everything you want. As for the rant itself, the ranter forgets that it's an import product that is owned by companies and distrubutors. They will distrubute how they see fit and if it's a legal, attainable product in your country's marketplace, you either buy or don't, but stealing is still wrong, and even though it might not break the bank of the corporations if one or two people steal, it's still spitting in the face of the people who put hard work into making the product. Maybe you want to go to the houses of the animators, directors, and editors and spit in their faces, but I'd rather respect their work by supporting it with my money. You don't get to decide how anime gets to you - it's something owned by other people. If those people decide you can buy into it with your capital, then you have to do it the way they tell you to. |
||||
|
||||
|
10円
Posts: 605 |
|
|||
Um, how old were you when you were in Japan? |
||||
|
||||
|
sumgai
Posts: 19 |
|
|||
|
Downloading fansubs isn't stealing...its copyright infringment.
Sure, it is breaking the law, but as a funsub downloader I don't like being called a thief for downloading something that I would never buy otherwise because I didn't know it existed. Suzumiya Haruhi for example, which I now plan on buying. If I hadn't viewed it beforehand I would take one look at it and dismiss it as garbage. |
||||
|
||||
|
bayoab
Posts: 831 |
|
|||
|
Because this needs to be said... again...
Doujin != Contains pornographic material Most doujin is pornographic, but not all. Higurashi is a doujin game, not an h-game. And regarding cosplay, you make your own commentary. If you do a decent job and look like the character in proportional terms, then you won't get negative comments. |
||||
|
||||
|
fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
|
|||
Went to Japan when I was 9, left at 18. |
||||
|
||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16961 |
|
|||
|
For starters where's the love for the 360? I see you guys mentioning the Wii and PS3 but why not the 360 huh huh?!?!?!
 That's discrimination and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves! Now go wash your mouths out with soap and sit in the corner for an hour. No juice and cookies for you tonight!
I think that flake is the guy I've mentioned before. Anyone who's seen my posts regarding this guy I know, yea that's him. Maybe not directly, but in essence that's him. These kind of people make me want to drop them off in downtown DC in Cherry Hill. Tell a sista that kind of crap and watch what happens. It's like you're admitting you wanna be a male chauvinistic pig and womanizer. "Yes I want my woman to be all subservient and cute and do my every wish." Here's a dollar, go buy a personality jack ass. What burns my bacon even more is that there are women who actually do this! What the hell is wrong with you?! Do you not have one shred of self respect and dignity? No woman should act like this for any guy. I don't care who you are but no one should be anyone's slave, which is exactly what that crap is. Guys like him prey on weak girls that they can use and twist into their own little sex slaves, which is all they really want. Don't give me any bs on how you want a nice girl who's sweet to you. Go blow that out your ass. All you're looking for is a girl to bend over the table for you to take what you want, when you want it. That's all that is plain and simple and anyone that says differently is in a big world of self denial and self pity. To be fair, there are women who do this too. Though, it happens on a much smaller scale. As for the rant, yea another sub vs. dub debate. Strip away everything else and that's all the rant is. Is it me or are the rants really getting sad and shallow lately? It's just the same arguments we hear every day dressed up all nice to come off as something else. If there weren't fans who subtitled and watched ahead of licensing – much of the anime that gets licensed wouldn't ever get licensed, because the company and sponsors couldn't be sure of a fan-base here. That's a load of horse crap if I ever heard it. Give solid proof of ONE licensing company that made a choice to dub/not dub a series based on fansubs. Considering all fansubs are illegal I'd love to see the company that openly admits to illegally downloading and watching pirated anime. Then they base their own decisions to license a show on said illegal fansub. Show me one honest to god legit press release along those lines and I swear to God in Heaven I will get a bikini wax done (I'm a guy so that would really hurt). A full on wax, legs and all. Hell, I'll even posts pics of my shaved legs as proof. Fansubs have not one thing to do with shows that do or don't get licensed. You're just trying to make excuses to justify your behavior and theft. In the music industry we see the perfect example – artists were no longer selling as many CDs, but their popularity skyrocketed, because people were listening to their music. So, instead of making the bulk of their money on CD sales, smart musicians realized that the future would involve concert tours and in-person appearances that couldn't be mimicked on the Internet. Have you ever worked in the music industry to know what the bloody hell you are talking about? For starters tours don't pay for s#$t for artists. You obviously have no idea how much money GOES INTO a tour. The amount of people that have to be paid for their services. All the workers at each venue they play at. All the bands own tech and personnel support. Artists make most of their money on merchandise which includes, but is not limited to, cd and dvd sales. Sure they make money on concerts but no where near as much as you think. Unless of course you're Madonna or Elton John but super stars like them are exceptions. So, Elitists – please just be aware that you are at the end of a very long chain and that those you look down on for watching fansubs are actually an essential part of the market which keeps the popularity up and the money rolling in for those who create Anime. Actually I look down on narrow minded, self deluded morons like you who go out of their way to justify the fact they're stealing, or committing some sort of crime. All your rant is is one giant excuse for you to not pay for anything. You're cheap, simply admit it and move on with your life. People who pirate and steal the anime are an essential part of the market you say? Every single one of you who says that should be forced to work in a recording studio and a production studio. Run your mouths off there and let the people actually creating and bringing anime to you educate you. Can fansubs help bring knowledge of series that viewers may otherwise be unable to find, sure. Can they help viewers determine which series they should buy as they have limited funds, yes. Do they help determine which shows are or aren't brought over to America or anywhere else, no. Fansubs in no way help the money "roll in." Quite the opposite. How can anyone in their right mind say that by watching the show for FREE they are helping money roll in for these companies? Do you not understand the definition of the word free? All these arguments by people like you are nothing more then ignorant attempts for you to justify the fact you're cheap bastards who can't shell out one buck for their anime. Fansubs themselves are not what make you all moron and thieves. The fact you refuse to EVER pay for any of your anime does that. People who watch fansubs them subsequently buy that show as it's released, if it is, help the industry. People who watch 5 series fansubbed because they can only afford 2 and want to judge which 2 are worth it still help the industry. Hell, even people who watch fansubs but never buy a dvd at a store but go to cons and buy merchandise there are still somehow helping the industry. Don't come here and spew your garbage about how you're helping the anime industry by getting everything for free and never contributing one cent to that industry. Now in an attempt to be fair, the right side elitists who feel anyone who watches fansubs for any reason is tainted and will burn in the lowest circle of hell is just as ignorant. That however is a different topic and will probably, at this rate anyway, be a rant in itself soon enough. |
||||
|
||||
SoloButterfly
 Posts: 239 Location: Masaki Residence |
|
|||
As long as you actually buy the product, you aren't really the problem. It's the people who download or watch the whole thing and never show any real support for the show. However, I'm really starting to hate the "well I wouldn't buy it anyway" excuse. If you weren't somewhat interested in it, then you wouldn't have made an effort to see it...so don't. You can see things and decide not to buy them..it's called renting, or going to the theater. You still had to pay to see it, but the fee was smaller compared to owning it. Or at least that's how things worked in the past... |
||||
|
||||
Mephistophilus
 Posts: 200 Location: Fresno, CA, United States |
|
|||
I know you aren't really the issue, but I see that bit of semantics come up a lot. For all intents and purposes, downloading fansubs is stealing. You are receiving a product that you did not pay for, and in doing so taking revenue from the creator of the media. I don't care if you download fansubs, and you can justify it in my eyes by making a promise that you will buy the series when it is licensed, but please do not justify it by saying that "it's copyright infringement, not stealing."
This is partially true, but it still doesn't mean that everyone should have free reign over nitpicking every part of a costume of a first-time cosplayer that put his/her time and effort into making that costume. Honestly, "proportional terms?" I'm all for *trying* to make the costume, as I do realize that making a shirt-ninja cover and putting a Naruto headband on does not make a good costume, but when someone puts their effort into something and maybe just doesn't know how to use a sewing machine with great precision, you have to give them a break. As long as you are not 500 pounds in a bikini or something, "proportional terms" should not matter that much, and people really shouldn't be made fun of regardless. Be nice, as it probably won't kill you and it'll make the world a better place. |
||||
|
||||
|
Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6896 Location: Kazune City |
|
|||
|
Oh yeah, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, I played that a number of times 2-3 years ago. Think you I would forget such a thing!? C:SotN stole my soul and made me its slave, but perhaps the same can be said of all religions.
Squealing fangirls & Ouran High School Host Club: I can't fault the fangirls too much for liking pretty-boy anime. After all, I could list a number of shows where the main reason to watch them was the pretty, cute, hot, or moemoe girls. The fangirls' actions become more of a problem to me if they ignore all the other qualities of a series just because it happens to have "pretty boys," or if they ignore all other series solely for the crime of not having enough bishounen. And when we watched all of Ouran at anime club, I saw these fangirls in action. All squealing and sighing aside, what annoyed me was that they proclaimed Ouran to be such a good show that everyone should watch it. Then they proceeded to leave the room when unknown (to them) anime that didn't have pretty boys got played. Sure, lots of guys watch male-oriented fanservice anime, but most of these guys branch out into other genra that have more redeeming value. I've never encountered a serious male anime viewer ("fan" is apparently a connotational term now  ) who dismissed a series out of hand just because it didn't have hot girls.
Count me in as a straight male fan of Ouran (if my avatar/location weren't enough to tell that) ; granted, I've always been willing to watch shoujo/girly anime, so I'm not a true "crossover" fan. But I found the characters and the world they inhabit to be entertaining and engaging, with plenty of parody, straightforward comedy, and even a bit of sadness/drama towards the end. As others have said, Haruhi is quite different from most shoujo heroines, a far cry from the Miaka's, Usagi's, Miki's, and Tohru's of the anime world. I loved Renge's expanded role in the anime--her "female otaku" commentary on the other characters, the settings, and proceedings were so on target that I never got tired of seeing the "High-Powered Motor" introductory scene. As fictional characters go, Tamaki is a guy I can really respect: he speaks his mind without fear, he can persuade and win the trust of others, he cares for his friends as if they were family, and he's always trying to do something, to construct something meaningful and lasting. The "Host Club formation" flashbacks are especially telling on this matter. Anyway, I'm hoping to see a good R1 release of it, and I'd imagine most of the major companies (aside from Viz) wil be up to the task. H-games in America -- after Anime Expo last year, I read a summary report on the AnimeonDVD forums about Hirameki International's panel. In response to the same question about KgNE, F/SN and similar games, they said that the high fees and byzantine licensing conditions made those games impossible to bring over on Hirameki's means. Is the audience for them just a bunch of pirates? Maybe, but it seems like the demographic of people who watch and enjoy the fansubs of these types of series skews more towards the over-20 males who get emotionally invested in the stories and characters of them. Emotional investment = financial investment in this case? Possibly, but we'll probably never get to empirically test this. I'd link the AoD post, but any search I do on their forums returns 40,000 results, almost none of which contains the word(s) I'm searching for On a related note:
Manga vs. Anime: From a number of posts on this forum, I've gleaned something of a "dark truth" about anime and manga -- anime are sometimes, maybe always, meant as promotional tools to drive interest in the manga. They animate some of the manga storyline, then leave you wanting more, which you find by buying the manga. So, Berserk, Fruits Basket, Love Hina, His & Her Circumstances, Midori Days, Tenjou Tenge, Air Gear? Many fans can point to at least one "cut off too early" anime they've seen. Sure, they cite reasons like "budget constraints" or "creative differences with manga author," which may be perfectly true, but...they still want you to buy the manga to see more. This thread is a creature of chaos. It may take many incarnations 
|
||||
|
||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16961 |
|
|||
Besides, that person at least put some effort into that costume. What did you do Joe Smo? Going under the assumption the person did put effort into it, and they aren't Jabba the Hut trying to come off as Lum, cut them some slack. They at least tried and took the time to do this. How many of us have done that? How many of us here reading this have ever cosplayed and put the effort into it? I can say I honestly really haven't. I did go as Amon one yea but that simply involved sopping at Hot Topic so I hardly consider my cosplay attempt that original. I always try and show support for those who put an honest effort into their costume. It also takes guts to dress up and show your piece off in front of how ever many thousands of people. As long as you honestly tried your best and did it tastefully I tip my hat off to you. Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
|
bayoab
Posts: 831 |
|
|||
|
||||
|
||||
|
Cosfu
Posts: 3 |
|
|||
|
Aw man, CosplayJerks.com doesn't exist!
The only premier site of cosplay bashing seems to be Cosfu (they have a rather inappropriate full name). They're pretty heartless, but sometimes, they are helpful in showing examples of what not to do, and they show common mistakes made by people who are new at cosplay. I've read that there are many who have said that Cosfu has helped them greatly when making decisions about cosplay. That site is like a bad car crash that you see on the side of the road. It's terrible, but you just can't help but look at it. [edit: bold, italics, and underlining removed. Totally unnecessary. -b] Last edited by Cosfu on Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:36 am; edited 3 times in total |
||||
|
||||
Kenotic
 Posts: 167 |
|
|||
Yes!!!!!! I actually came on here to say the same thing. You don't need to watch everything out there. Show some restraint once in awhile, it's not like waiting 6-12 months for a good series to come out and be rentable ($4 for two anime DVDs on Sunday/Monday at a local store nearby) is going to kill you. Besides, this "poor college student" thing would resonate a lot better if people didn't have $40 cell phone plans and pizza every weekend - and I was just there a few years back. You want to watch anime? Sacrifice. Heck, even Netflix lets you rent one DVD at a time for about $7 a month. Having said that, I'm not going to lie and say that I've avoided fansubs entirely. I'm not totally against them, just the thought that we somehow deserve them free (Hey Japanese companies - I'll pay $1-2 an episode with good subbing on some non-US released series -- $10-15 for movies!) and we're "helping" the industry. The only two series I've downloaded I later puchased. I know full well that some companies look the other way when it comes to fansubbing (Bandai and Haruhi, anyone?), but I don't expect that to keep up if logic like today's ranter prevails. Otherwise, it's amusing that both the squeeing fangirls and unrealistic fanboys were commented on this week. One thing that keeps coming up with fans that I think could be beat into our heads a bit more: Anime is not real. The male and female characters are usually created to target a certain demographic and conform to an unrealistic standard. Sure, there are great exceptions, but don't hold Rei or some Moe girl up an some example of the perfect female. They aren't real. The real thing is, much, much cooler
Last edited by Kenotic on Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||
|
||||
Mirrinus
 Posts: 230 Location: La Thiene Plateau |
|
|||
|
Heh, that flake guy almost makes me ashamed to like Kanon. I'd like to stock this example for use in the fandom topic...
But seriously now, it appears to me that the moe phenomenon and the squeeling fangirls are just two sides of the same coin. I'd personally place the blame on the fans in this case. In both circumstances, what you have are fans blowing a single aspect of the show out of proportion and drawing far too much needless attention to it, while ignoring other parts of the show that are more deserving of praise. For example, Ouran High School Host Club can pull off some pretty good comedy, but this is overshadowed because the obsessing of fans over the bishies tends to be more noticable. Kanon 2006 possesses superb directing and absolutely godly animation coupled with a very well-written story, but people will still write it off simply because it falls so well into the "moe" category that people now perceive as something distasteful (it's also somewhat incorrectly labeled as a "harem" show, but that's a rant for another time). This is not to say that all moe or bishie shows are good and actually have redeeming qualities (I'm sure many of both don't, lol). However, this is still a good example of the fandom destroying outside interest in such genres. My advice to anyone bothering to read my post is that if you ever wish to praise a show you like, do so on less subjective grounds. Focus on the detailed and quality animation, or the excellent music, or the intricate plot. Try not to draw too much attention to how moe the characters are; that's something for each person to come to their own terms with. |
||||
|
||||
|
Space Goats
Posts: 21 |
|
|||
|
I didn't even read the rant until just now but holy jesus, talk about a person who does not understand how the world works. Networks don't make money on the series because the money comes from the sponser? That is ridiculous. The fee paid to advertise is based on viewership, which is based on... what's on TV. Ads during American Idol cost significantly more than ads during rival shows at the same time. I wonder why?
As for being able to watch it free in America when it's on TV, that is also wrong. You pay for channels that air anime such as CN. CN makes its money by selling the rights to broadcast its content to cable and satellite companies and from selling ad spots. When you dl fansubs you subvert the system. You do not watch ads, nor do you have to pay money to watch the station it is broadcast on. Now the ideal scenerio would be making anime available online for download by the companies that license it. This is what is supposed to happen with Death Note, though from my understanding it has not begun. Market trends will push anime distribution in the direction of the digital format, but that does not make downloading for free morally rightious. You do not have the right to get stuff conveniently fast anyway. To sum it up, I don't look down on people who watch fansubs. I DO however look down on people who try to justify it. The ONLY justification is to say that you buy series you enjoy, which I think is pretty noble, but those people whose only excuse amounts to nothing more than "It makes other people buy it" have no right to act like they are doing anything other than stealing. |
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group