Forum - View topicMost Improved Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2267 |
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That's not quite right. At one point Saber and Shiro repulse spoiler[Gilgamesh] together with both of them spoiler[swinging Saber's sword]. It looked a little corny, but this signaled them becoming partners and fighting together. Saber was no longer a tool of war saying "what are your orders master?" and Shiro wasn't telling her to get back behind him. Saber was not lounging around the pool sipping cocktails and allowing the man to do all the work.
That's wrong. Saber spoiler[couldn't stay unless she did what Gilgamesh had been doing all those years which was feeding like a vampire off the mana from all of his victims. That's a whole pile of dead people thanks to Gilgamesh]. Saber and Shiro would never have done that especially for selfish reasons this is what makes the ending bittersweet. The spoiler[boy does not get the girl], which shows some balls. I think there was another reason which had to do with Saber's special status, but I don't think that was thoroughly addressed in the shows. |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Group A Final
Fakir, Princess Tutu vs. Daikichi Kawachi, Bunny Drop Daikichi deserves a vote here for taking on the unexpected mantle of parenthood. Where no one wants to be involved with Rin, Daikichi undertakes a great task. My vote goes to: Daikichi Kawachi. Group B Final Chihiro, Spirited Away vs. Kyoko Mogami, Skip Beat! vs. Scar, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood It was between Chihiro and Scar for me here. Scar has more time to develop his character throughout a whole series which gives him an advantage. In the end, the greater good is served when Scar joins the good guys. My vote goes to: Scar. Group C Final Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin: Trust and Betrayal Youko has too much going for her. Both series are fan favorites but Youko is the better candidate. The episode 1 and episode 39 screenshot comparison that rheiders posted also helps her cause. My vote goes to: Youko Nakajima. Group D Final Simon, Gurren Lagann vs. Saber, Fate/stay night and Fate/Zero Simon's transformation is one to behold. A tragic event was the spark which started his domino effect transformation. In the second half, he grows up into a great leader and man. Though, he may be a little too free-spirited, it is what makes him likeable. After the dust has settled from an epic battle on a galactic scale, then begins the great epilogue detailing the future of the main characters. Simon, in general, is a homage to great heroes of years past. He becomes the classic old hero archetype. In his old age, Simon recognizes he is no longer needed and wanders. A new generation of heroes will lead the the world into a new age of prosperity. When troubles brews again, he will step in once again to lend his experience and knowledge. My vote goes to: Simon. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18460 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 5: Group Finals is now closed.
Only 17 votes in a round that had a couple of heavily-argued matches. The results: Group A: Fakir soundly eliminates Daikichi, 16-1. Group B: Scar holds out over Chihiro and Kyoko, 9-5-3. Group C: Youko outduels Kenshin, 16-1. Group D: Simon uses his spiral power on Saber, 11-6. Group B was actually very close until a final run of three votes allowed Scar to pull away. Simon took 5 of the last 7 to take a decisive lead in Group D but was never able to completely put away Saber. The other two were the expected blow-outs. For minigame, I racked up 3/4, but somehow I don't think that's going to be good enough to gain on more than maybe one or two of the six people ahead of me. Oh, well. And so we're down to only four left. Of them, the rankings: Power Rankings 1. Youko, 0.924051 2. Fakir, 0.922078 3. Simon, 0.75 4. Scar, 0.716049 No surprises here on the ordering. The Final Four will be up soon. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18460 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 6: Tournament Semifinals is now closed.
Results can be found here. Down to only four left! Will both of these be blow-outs? Is the pairing for the Finals now inevitable? Let’s find out! Group A/B Semifinal Fakir, Princess Tutu vs. Scar, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood Group C/D Semifinal Youko Nakajima, The Twelve Kingdoms vs. Simon, Gurren Lagann Last edited by Key on Mon May 20, 2013 11:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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CRAP!!
 Curse my narcolepsy. I don't know what the deal is. Hopefully my blood sugar isn't jacked - keep falling asleep between 10:00 -11:30 cst. Well, it's my own fault for not voting early and waiting to the last minute. Hopefully, I can keep my rage to a minimum when I try to vote early next week in the final 4. Honestly, besides Simon, I am pretty happy with the final 4, but I don't think my argument/vote against him would have mattered much.
Last edited by farichada on Mon May 13, 2013 11:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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I'm going for the projected! I can't tell how the final will go as they have almost the exact same power ranking (I know how I plan to vote already though)
Group A/B: Fakir-this should be no surprise, I haven't voted for Scar in (I think) any round because I think he's overrated and doesn't deserve to be here anyway. I can't remember anything about his development over two different series! Fakir on the other hand, big changes, easy vote Group C/D: Youko-a much tougher choice for me as I think they both change a lot. Think I'm gonna go with Youko for now, she's far more unrecognizable as compared to the start of the series compared to Simon (as previous pics of her showed) |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13240 |
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So the two favourites to win were never going to face each other until the finals... Key, you set this up, didn't you? J'ACCUSE!!!
Just kidding. Still BS that Simon won, but it's nice to know I'm not alone in considering him problematic. Well we're at the point where the number of votes has dwindled to such a small number that it's easy to guess who each will vote for. So yeah, going by past rounds it's a foregone conclusion how this'll end up. Group A/B Semifinal Scar - So here we have two heel-face turns. Even if Fakir is going to get all the votes for whatever reason, Scar definitely deserves it more. Fakir might have been a jerkass, but he didn't murder people. It also doesn't sound like he had a seething hatred for anything like Scar did. That's really the crux of what's in Scar's favour. He managed to overcome his hatred to work alongside those that slaughtered his people from the greater good. This is best represented by the fact that in the end he's the one who kills spoiler[Wrath, the sin Scar indulged in the most.] He's even willing to set aside his beliefs to do what he needs to do, spoiler[even using Alchemy.] Spoiler video. Group C/D Semifinal Youko - Yeah, I'm done talking about why I won't vote for Simon.
Yeah, I could say the same about Fakir. Nothing in his write up sounds particularly noteworthy. Why he's so well regarded I guess I'll never know. |
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farichada
Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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I'm pretty sure Key uses a random method once the seeds are in place to create the bracket. I think he mentioned this a while back a few tournaments ago. While Fakir is definitely the favorite to win his match; I believe that Scar has a good chance of upsetting Fakir in this round. I think both characters are quite strong in the improvement department. Unlike the C/D match-up, I am pretty much on the fence with Scar vs Fakir. Scar starts off much worse than Fakir and his improvement is surrounded by more dire/darker circumstances. Fakir starts off as Douchebageous Maximus, but Scar started off as seething evil cold-blooded killer with a skewed world view. The thing is as evil as Scar started out he was kind of badass villain that reveled in brutality that translated into awesomness. I am not sure how that should sway my opinion on this match because Fakir pretty much had no redeeming qualities at the start and was far from a badass. I do think Fakir's crowning moment of awesome and tie to the central story gives him a few edges over Scar, but I am really not sure how I will vote right now. And to your last point that I quoted, I completely agree it was BS Simon won vs Saber. He is the only remaining character that has quite major flaws and setbacks associated with his improvement, but unlike previous times, I am pretty sure Simon can't weasel his way out of a match versus someone who I believe is the favorite to win the entire tournament. Lastly, I don't know why people are focusing on Youko's change in appearance so much. Unlike Kyoko, this wasn't a fundamental part of her improvement, and Youko has many merits to rely on beyond her new look. Last edited by farichada on Tue May 14, 2013 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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zawa113
Posts: 7358 |
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@Vaisaga-guessing you've never seen Princess Tutu? Shame, you're missing out on a fantastic series!
I find the A/B matchups similar and the C/D ones similar. C/D are both shy to outgoing, A/B are both change of heart. It already seems like A/B will be the one where I need to argue where I thought it would be C/D. In the case of Scar, I got the feeling he never really wanted to be a killer to begin with. He had a tendency to go a bit crazy because of the alchemy thing on his arm. He was killing alchemists out of revenge, sure, but then we see him kill spoiler[Nina], and he does so out of mercy, which led me to believe he was never truly a bad guy to begin with because, despite killing someone in that story, it made him the closest thing to a good guy at the moment, not to mention that he felt remorse for having to do that. And this is really early on! I never truly believed him to be evil is my main complaint, upset due to the genocide of his people, certainly, but I think he wanted to get to the bottom of things more than murder people. Fakir on the other hand... Ok, so he doesn't murder people, but he doesn't exactly live in a world where that's the worst thing that can happen to you anyway (finale, anyone?) Fakir's heart had hardened due to an event that happened as a child. He became a control freak and horrible person on the basis that he believe he was genuinely being the good guy. I never got the impression that Scar was ok with killing people left and right (he was pretty damn clearly crazy when he killed spoiler[Winry's parents] and seemed to indicate regret of this mistake), Fakir was more than ok with being domineering over Mytho and preventing any glimpse of happiness from coming to him. So when he slowly starts to realize that what he's been doing wasn't the right thing for Mytho, he resists at first and it takes him a while to come around. To himself, Fakir had been the good guy, protecting Mytho in a little bubble, protecting him from the outside world, and Tutu, returning his memories, was the evil one. His first step was to realize that he wasn't the good guy before he could actually become one. The sacrifices he has to go through in the finale to finally achieve this also meant that it wasn't an easy task in the least and he had to give up a lot for it. It definitely would've been easier to go back to the way he was. Scar on the other hand, agreed to a cease fire with the Elrics pretty fast when push came to shove, his main reason for hating them was Ed being a state alchemist in the first place, so when more pressing things came up, whatever to that one. Ed had never wronged Scar and Scar seemed to know this and was lashing out blindly at all state alchemists. I don't think it took a very big change of heart for Scar as much as re-directing his focus because he never really had a justified beef to pick with Ed anyway. And he was alright with Al pretty much immediately despite Al being the biggest walking abomination known at the time, I don't see how a true bad guy could be good with that. Fakir's mindset was the much harder one to change and the much more impressive one to see it change and it makes him the most unforgettable character in the series. Scar seemed to know his killing of non-state alchemists was wrong from the start, and I think that's a big distinction for their initial mindsets at series start and why Fakir is so much more impressive, he simply had more to change and a harder task to complete this. |
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farichada
Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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I am quite surprised you thought C/D would be the match that you thought you would have to argue for. Simon has glaring weaknesses, and Youko's improvement cannot be matched in complexity, magnitude, and credibility. It's gradual nature coupled with good story telling and character development really sells Youko's change quite well from a directionless, unlikable, lacking in confidence school girl to a wise and well respected leader. It is far from an easy journey and success did not always come naturally at the start, and unlike a few others that are left the change was very slow and oozing with complexity while riddled with challenges. Last edited by farichada on Tue May 14, 2013 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13240 |
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He didn't this time:
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farichada
Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Interesting, I am wondering if this is why this tournament might be on the higher end of the scoring spectrum as far as the minigame is concerned. Of course, you have to adjust for the fact that less points are available compared to the older tournaments. |
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Vaisaga
Posts: 13240 |
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In all honestly, from a professional standpoint, as the tournament organizer Key shouldn't be eligable for the mini-game. But I've never said anything because I do trust him to be fair.
... Though Youko's nomination is still invalid... 
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farichada
Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Despite having a past record of being accused of cheating, I honestly trust Key enough for this to not be an issue for me. The only time one of Key's decisions regarding the administration of the tournament rubbed me the wrong way was he allowed a vote to count after the tournament had ended that resulting in him placing higher than he would have normally placed. I think him and Dorcas_Aurelia ended up reverting the score, but that was a long time ago; I don't exactly remember. Key specifically stated that he was nominating Youko and if he didn't; the nomination was inevitable. The only advantage is that is what was written by Key who is probably one of the better writers on these forums. Plus you have to remember, that Key has been around as an admin/writer for ANN for quite a long time; I seriously doubt he would risk his reputation over something as petty as a minigame. |
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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Why would you even bring this up if you believe in Key? What you are referring to happened over 10 years ago, and many people in the MTG community believe he was falsely accused despite the draconian five year ban. The DCI was out for blood and Key was pretty much singled out to be made an example of. No need to be so ambiguous to bait people into inquiring what you are referring to. I think it is already bad enough something so old is still one of the top Google results when his name is googled. Sometimes the internet can be a double-edged sword. farichada please don't be such a dramamonger, it good that your trust him and bringing this up is beyond pointless. |
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