Forum - View topicParent's groups Fight to KILL
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ryusaki
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_en_tv/tv_violent_kids this can only get worse
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Efan
 Posts: 340 |
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Another group of ranting adults who have nothing better to do but complain about anything having to do with children... Of course animated shows are going to be violent, that's why they're animated and not live-action, could you immagine Elfen Lied live-action? And like they said, it goes through a large number of reveiws before it is rated, and if children 10 years old are going to watch a show that's 14+, their obviously going to see something that makes it 14+, and not 8+. |
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don'tlookbehindyou
 Posts: 44 Location: being distracted by shiny things. |
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Crazy soccer moms heres a thought, If you don't want your kids watching violent things, heres a thought take them to do something not plop them in front of the tv because your tired of hearing them talk to you. Or heres another idea, why don't you talk to your kids and explain to your kids why its wrong instead of letting them figure it out themselves. God, freaking idiotic people want to have freedom of speak and press but someone uses it in a way you don't like they moan and complain about the damn children. Heres a tip, we like it and the sheltered are way more likely to become ax slinging maniacs then the rest of us who get exposed to it. Damn people make me sick they barely talk to their kids and they think that they have the right to tell other people how to raise their kids.
Sorry needed to rant a little. But seriously I don't get why their getting in a huff about this. yes their violent we all can understand that but if you don't like it don't watch it. Not to mention that some of the shows they mention have a definant sense of right and wrong built right in so the kids learn that if their robbing a bank their bad but if their trying to stop the robbers their good. Again sorry for the rant just needed to get that out of my system. 
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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All right... time for a drop of reason in a sea of hysteria.
What is this group saying? Firstly, they're saying that children's television (that is, television aimed at the below-14 age group) is significantly more violent now than it used to be. Can anyone say that this isn't 100% true? No, I thought not. Of course, it's true. They're right on this point. Secondly, they're saying that it isn't just a matter of quantity of violence, but also of quality. That is, the character of the violence shown isn't as innocent (or "cartoony", if you prefer) as it used to be. It's darker, more psychologically intimidating, and less stylized. Again, there's no disputing that they're right about this. Thirdly, they're saying that all this violence desensitizes younger children to violence. This is a somewhat less clear-cut question, though I tend to think that they're generally right. However, I don't think they're giving children enough credit for their ability to distinguish fiction from reality. Fourthly, they're saying that all of this violence is robbing children of a fundamental privilege: being allowed to retain one's innocence during one's childhood years. In other words, by exposing children to gross violence at an early age, they are being forced to reach a mature attitude to violence at too early an age. I am completely in agreement with them on this. Nowhere in that article do I see anyone crying out for censorship of the airwaves or "getting all that anime smut off TV", or all of the implied bigotry that you all seem to be reacting to. Instead, these people are saying that a lot of the animated stuff (including anime, but not limited to it) being aired in timeslots that can reasonably considered "children's TV time slots", is too violent, and that parents and networks should act to limit the children's exposure to it. I completely agree. This isn't about adult television programming, such as Elfen Lied being broadcast in a late-night slot. This is about too-violent television being shown to 8-year-olds. - abunai |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3791 Location: Montreal |
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I am completely in disagreement with them on this. It's a parent's job to make sure their kids are prepared to face the world when they grow up. In order to do this, you have to teach them the basics before they become teenagers, because at that point they won't listen to you anymore. And the basics involve a deep-seated understanding that some things are fundamentally bad, like violence. "Protecting their innocence" is just a selfish desire to keep children cute and immature for as long as possible. Deconstruct their innocence while you have control, otherwise it's going to get smashed while you can only watch from afar. But then again I don't have kids so what do I know... |
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Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
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While I agree that this is a noble cause for parents to be concerned about violence on children's television timeslots (Mononokehime on Cartoon Network at 7:30 p.m. anyone?), I can't really agree with any of their examples of what "violence" is.
"Programs like "Teen Titans" on the Cartoon Network and ABC Family Channel's "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers" often feature intense fights with swords, guns and lasers, the group said." Power Rangers is violent? Please, parents have been complaining about the violence in Power Rangers for years. Have the children of America started going killing each other with swords, guns, and lasers yet? These parents should take a visit to Japan and see the Japanese version of Power Rangers that children in Japan have been watching since the '70s and then they won't complain about violence in the American version. "It detailed a scene on Fox's "Shaman King" where two characters have a lengthy sword fight. One character is knocked out by a blow to the head, and his opponent reaches into the chest of his screaming rival and pulls out his "soul," leaving him dead." That's violent? Hah! Show those kids an episode of Naruto and then try to complain about Shaman King. Shaman King doesn't even have any blood in it and the dub has been sanitized by 4Kids. These people don't even know what violence is. They're just being nit-pitcky as usual. ""Popeye beat up Bluto and you cheered," he said. "That was perfectly fine. Now the protagonists will be caught in dark, powerful, oftentimes scary scenarios where there is hard violence." So, violence where the main character beats up a guy that steals the protagonists' girlfriend is supposed to be more acceptable than any of today's "violence"? "Children under age 8 are cognitively unable to distinguish between real and fantasy violence, he said" Gee, I wonder why? Maybe it's because NOBODY TELLS THEM IT'S NOT REAL. If you actually tell the stupid kids that it isn't real, then they would know it's not real, but if you just flip on the TV and leave the kids alone to watch whatever they want, of course they're not going to be able to tell if it's real or not! It's your responibility as parents people to tell your kids what's real and not real and to tell your kids what's acceptable in the real world and what's not. Television is not a babysitter, people. I don't think this article is going to change anything. It's just another case of parents whining about the "violence" in Power Rangers and cartoons like they've been whining about for years. It's nothing new and these parents should learn to get off their lazy asses already and raise their kids themselves, not let the TV do it for them or set those freaking parental controls on their cable boxes that they begged for already. Last edited by Kouji on Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Hmm. I think we're actually not saying opposite things, here. You want (if I understand you correctly) to expose children to the concept of violence early enough for parents to intervene in the way that concept becomes gestalted into the child's worldview. That is, to teach a child that violence exists, but it is unacceptable. On this, we completely agree. However, I don't agree that the way to do so is by exposing the child to a constant barrage of violent television, especially where a lot of the violence is presented as entertainment, so to speak. A 12-year-old is perfectly capable of seeing an episode of Dragonball for the over-the-top silliness that it is. A 7-year-old is less likely to understand that this is not behaviour to be emulated. Certainly, it is possible to teach younger children that violence is to be shunned (if at all possible) without dropping them head-first into a morass of TV violence and expecting them to understand that it isn't a positive model for their behaviour. By the time they're 10-12 years old, they are usually quite capable of distinguishing -- but the younger children deserve to keep their peace of mind for a while yet.
I do have kids, but what do I know? Ask any parent, and they'll tell you that no matter what you do, it'll be wrong somehow. My own children are all below 10, and I allow them to watch violent television only in the presence of an adult -- which is another way of resolving this issue. Stick around, so you can explain the violent situations on-screen to your children. Don't just plop them down in front of the television and wander off. The TV is not supposed to be a substitute for parenting. - abunai |
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don'tlookbehindyou
Posts: 44 Location: being distracted by shiny things. |
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Abunai you are making good points here that TV is violent. Anyone here who says it isn't is lieing. But what about actually talking to kids about this stuff. They need to be told that this stuff is not a good thing to be doing at any point unless it is an absolute last resort. And none of us can argue that in this world you can get away with no knowledge of violence because we do in fact live in a violent world. What you need to do is make sure to monitor your kids programming yourself. I did this with my little sisters and even watched it with them and made them explain some of the shows to me so I could see how they saw them.
And I know because I don't have children that I can't truly under stan this. But you can't censor this stuff from kids they need to be prepared, all the stuff on TV is just a tiny glimpse at what can happen to you if a real sicko gets ahold of you. By censoring you unleast a potential South park situation I'm going to black out the next part for those who haven't seen the moviespoiler[Terance and Phillip come out with a movie that makes my swearing look like a baby gurgling. The parents of the kids start a whole war between Canada and the US because of this. Tarrence and Phillip get killed and Satan is unleashed upon the world because the blood of the innocent was spilled. It turns out ok though.]. Now i know I just got serious points against me for using South Park in a serious discussion but the moral is clear. Due to the parents obsession with censoring they end up hurting alot of people and unleashing a greater eveil then they had before. Censorship is a good idea in principle but in the long run it may hurt more then it helps. |
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-gecko-
 Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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I don't see all this 'darker' violence on kids TV. I have two children and watch TV with them when i can to make sure they are not being 'corrupted'. i worry more about mature situations than violence these days.
Kids TV in my day was more violent than today (with more plot, too), so I really don't see the 'constant barrage' that has been mentioned. I tend to use anime for teaching life lessons to my kids. 
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opaquescum
Posts: 235 |
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This is the typical angst against violence we read over and over again. It is laughable really. We have a group of people trying to indoctrinate people into beleiveing that one violence is preferable over another.
These are often the same people that get their kids active in sports. Sports is organized warfare. The goal is to humiliate and obtain dominance over an opponent. Think about it the goal is to engage in a physical activity with a clear victor. Someone is going to walk away from the game fealing bad, and if they were the weak link also know the job of being singled out for the special treatment. Hey jimmy you missed 4 free throws. You freaking loser you suck. These are often the same people that drag their children to church a system specifically designed to break down your sense of self and replace it. You get to listen as a guy talks about a vengeful god. Often followed with some bloody stories, and a mature adult sits next to them their parents and tells them its all true. If it happens to be a christian church you get an added bonus their going to show you a torture victim in the throws of death, and not only are they going to show it to you, but they are going to keep reminding you about it. These are often the people that get their children into hunting for sport. Hey jimmy get away from that TV thats evil stuff on there we are going out to kill a perfectly well wild creature today. I know you want to see death in the flesh hey comeon do not cry this is going to be fun. Am I knocking this stuff to an extent yeah. The whole concept is ludicrous. We do not need organized sports kids can put their own games together. Kids can forge their own beleifs. Hunting is a viscious sport and should be a moral choice made of a free mind. Infact these supposedly wholesome activities often lead to alot of societies violence related problems. Sports help to produce outcasts and misenthropes. Organized religion well assassins suicide bombers and mass suicides anyone. Hunting most of our best psychopaths have been trained be dear old dad and got the taste from him. Cartoons being violent is a joke. We have far greater perveyers in our society. So in effect dragging the kid away from the TV probabally results in more violence. Usually where they are the victim a witness or a giver. The funny part I suppose is this group probabally has no clue that the three facts I mentioned have more of a detrimental impact that a sword fight in a cartoon. Thats what they want you to beleive. The study dosent even mention what the violences are. How many of the acts are just someone getting smacked over the head? |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I must have missed Church that Sunday. I've been going to Church all my life and my father is a pastor and that stuff is totally off base. |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4514 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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ASTOUNDING NEW STUDY: Parenting advice given by random Internet anime forum people ignored by cultural watchdog groups.
News at 11. |
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mitora
 Posts: 162 |
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Yes his argument lost me at that point. Church never scared me to that extent. The pastor made his point: Hell is a scary place that you want to avoid. That stuck to me. I never needed the Fire and Brimstone to be drilled into me, and my church never believed in it either. I grew up watching cartoons, Tom and Jerry, Looney Toons and even DBZ. I never tried to drop and anvil on someones head, nor did I try to make a Kamehameha(sp?).  Of course I also admit my parents never tried to turn my tv into a babysitter, as many do these days.
Parents adore blaming others for there mistakes. Weather it be the biggest pop star or Seto Kiba, if they get a chance to say "My Johnny is being corrupted by this immoral media" the'll jump to it. |
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opaquescum
Posts: 235 |
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Well lets just say if your into christianity islam or judaism. You do get a heaping helping of death destruction and genacide especially in the old testament. Which they all have in common. Read the bible torah or koran and you can see it is pretty brutal even without the hell reference. Personally I do not want to go through the whole thing point by point.
I ask you this question though is it really appropriate for children to see a half naked man nailed to two boards. Coated in blood. Thats pretty graphic, and yet nobody ever mentions this imagry and this is something millions of kids see on sunday morning. Just think about it take yourself out of your religion and put yourself in the place of a small child going into a church and seeing these things. They are disturbing. So why is one considered by some to be totally unacceptable because its violent, and the other many times more graphic is not? |
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Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
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I guess the problem within this thread starts with this quote, seeing as how nobody's actually ranting about how violent anime is. Please, click the link and read.
Guess what the PTC is doing? Exactly that. They're not ranting and/or whining about violent cartoons. They've conducted a study and published what is generally true, no matter how accurate or inaccurate their details are. There is no denial that media has become more violent and that children are exposed to it at an earlier age than children were back in the 90's. What I see is a mistake and the consequences of that mistake. The mistake is that parents are trying to go about controlling what their children view by trying to control the media itself. First, controlling the media is impossible. Second, the parents are blaming the media for their inability to control their children's environment, when there are plenty of ways to go about doing so (ie: parental control devices are everywhere. Most parents probably don't even know they exist). The consequences of this mistake are that children, now exposed to violent and becoming (emotionally) indifferent, are retaliating to their parents for being "too sensitive". Prove me wrong if you've watched Elfen Lied and didn't think too much about the gore. Especially because it's anime and not real life. Is there something wrong in thinking that? I believe there is. Violence is violence, and parents should teach kids to fear it whether it be in real life or in a cartoon. To teach kids to differentiate violence between real life and cartoons is wrong - violence is violence anywhere. Until a child is able to identify violence with it being morally wrong and unacceptable in society, there should be no discrimination between showing real life content and cartoon content. I've often thought that parents were being paranoid. The entire GTA issue has gotten me to thinking that. But now that I realize where I come from (having been correctly taught about violence by my parents), a lot of the kids playing GTA now will never learn what I've learned. This is not to say that I support the parents to ban GTA (Like I said, they're going about it the wrong way), but it shows that at least the parents realize that it's wrong to have children playing these games. But while this issue remains unresolved, more children are becoming insensitive to violence, to the point that I see a "Today's school shooting is brought to you by:" news article every month at Fark. |
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