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Sword Art Online (TV).


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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18265
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:35 am Reply with quote
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
If you really think there's no possible other way to interpret the two points I was discussing here other than your opinion then I guess I shouldn't keep trying to discuss it with you and i'll leave you be on that.

If I'm not willing to listen to further arguments on an issue then I'll bluntly say "I'm done with this" or something like that. Anything short of that means I'm still open to hearing out arguments, even if there's little chance that I'll accept that viewpoint. Posting in forums would be boring if everyone always agreed, after all. That's why this is actually my favorite series discussion thread in quite some time. Wink

In retrospect, though, it does seem like the eye-rolling emoticon came across as needlessly rude, and I do apologize for that.

Quote:
Oh yea, on a side note I do think it's kind of weird that both of us seemed to like the last few episodes but have been disagreeing so much on certain aspects of them lol.

Not at all. You have clearly stated that you like the past few episodes despite what you perceive as certain major problems, while I either am not acknowledging them as big problems (because I interpret them a different way) or am willing to overlook them. That's pretty common in series discussion threads, in fact.

Pixelationist wrote:
My problem with Asuna as a character has nothing to do sexism, I just don't think she's that interesting. Her whole devotion to Kirito just comes off as being another lazily written male power fantasy devoid of substance, or perhaps just too rushed in terms of development like the show at large.

Fair enough, although (as I've stated previously) I'm instead of the mind that Kirito is the one who isn't that interesting as a character unless Asuna is around to interact with.

Quote:
However I couldn't dismiss spoiler[the Asuna not being able to finish off the dude issue] so nonchalantly, I think this is definitely tied to the writer's view on what it means for a women to remain a pillar of innocence, that somehow this is still ultimately a man's job regardless of the situation.

Boy, I think you're reading way too much into that.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:43 am Reply with quote
I'd add that Kirito and Asuna aren't necessarily flat characters, but their relationship is what makes the story work. They are without a doubt more appealing as a duo.

Last edited by Bugnin on Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15523
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:44 am Reply with quote
You guys think having fairly modern teenage girl spoiler[kill a begging man would be good because it would make her] a deeper character. Sorry but that is a little sick.

Are you guys forgetting that they are normal people inside a game, not hardened warriors from fantasy worlds, spoiler[killing other people something their society tolerates at all. If anything the creator is probably interested in seeing how the creation of the society is going to affect their morals, like killing becoming something easy to do.]
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:49 am Reply with quote
It would have been understandable, under the circumstances, but it wouldn't have been consistent with Asuna's character, who generally spoiler[becomes lethal only when lives are in danger. At that point, Kirito was no longer in harm's way, and it allowed her a moment to think about that she was doing, instead of acting on instinct, which is what she was doing before.]
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:22 am Reply with quote
Bugnin wrote:
I'd add that Kirito and Asuna aren't necessarily flat characters, but their relationship is what makes the story work. They are without a doubt more appealing as a duo.

Exactly!

And as a general comment: really, people, SPOILER TAGS! I've stopped adding a note on posts where I'm adding them in because I've had to do it so much in this thread. We are apparently being more tolerant in what's allowed to be openly talked about in The Stream threads (for reasons that I'm not going to get into here, so you'll just have to accept that), but here the normal forum standards still apply.
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ChibiKangaroo



Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2941
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:41 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
ChibiKangaroo wrote:
If you really think there's no possible other way to interpret the two points I was discussing here other than your opinion then I guess I shouldn't keep trying to discuss it with you and i'll leave you be on that.

If I'm not willing to listen to further arguments on an issue then I'll bluntly say "I'm done with this" or something like that. Anything short of that means I'm still open to hearing out arguments, even if there's little chance that I'll accept that viewpoint. Posting in forums would be boring if everyone always agreed, after all. That's why this is actually my favorite series discussion thread in quite some time. Wink

In retrospect, though, it does seem like the eye-rolling emoticon came across as needlessly rude, and I do apologize for that.

Quote:
Oh yea, on a side note I do think it's kind of weird that both of us seemed to like the last few episodes but have been disagreeing so much on certain aspects of them lol.

Not at all. You have clearly stated that you like the past few episodes despite what you perceive as certain major problems, while I either am not acknowledging them as big problems (because I interpret them a different way) or am willing to overlook them. That's pretty common in series discussion threads, in fact.



Thanks. Like I said I know I can come off as really assertive sometimes so I'll try to be more mindful of it and sorry about that. And yea you're right, it makes sense to have such variety of opinions given how hotly debated this show is.
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jl07045



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:50 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Bugnin wrote:
I'd add that Kirito and Asuna aren't necessarily flat characters, but their relationship is what makes the story work. They are without a doubt more appealing as a duo.

Exactly!


I'd sooner say that the story works because living in a game world is a wet dream for many a nerd and a thought that has come to mind to probably everyone that has ever played an immersive game. The romance works because there are no internal reasons to make it impossible, but it is no different from any number of anime romances where the perfect girl just happens to fall in love with the loner protagonist.
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:02 am Reply with quote
jl07045 wrote:


I'd sooner say that the story works because living in a game world is a wet dream for many a nerd and a thought that has come to mind to probably everyone that has ever played an immersive game.


Dot Hack was as shallow as they come and failed as a story on every level....so no, simply living in a game does not automatically do it.

Quote:
but it is no different from any number of anime romances where the perfect girl just happens to fall in love with the loner protagonist.


There's a great scene in the book where spoiler[while on their honeymoon, Asuna explains to another player her reasons for falling in love with Kirito]. I'm hoping they leave the scene in the anime, but it's doubtful, given the time constraints of the show. Calling it "no different than any other anime romance" is simply untrue. Kirito and Asuna don't "save" each other as much as they complete each other. How many animes have a leading male and female protagonist that stand on roughly equal ground? That's pretty rare IMO.

Episode ten was really powerful on a lot of levels. You simply do not get that kind of development in other anime.
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:41 am Reply with quote
Hmm, let's see what this anime isn't bad at, yet:

Action: It's decent enough, but even the last episode's fight wasn't that great action wise. Compared to the other episodes, yes, but to good action anime, no.

Drama - The wounds that never heal.

Fantasy and science fiction - What science fiction? Traces of it yes, but that's it. I'd never watch this thing for the science fiction, and I doubt anyone would if they knew what it had to offer. Fantasy is below average, a whole world to explore with NPCs, but all I see is character interaction, and drama wise, Crawling explains this better than I ever would.

Romance- And here we have the Mr Nice Guy who can't even touch a woman. I'll give you that spoiler[he kissed her], but that's about the only good romance part I've seen so far.


The writing isn't even a train wreck. It seems more like a witch's cauldron. Throw whatever comes to mind and - tun tun tun tun - hopefully magic makes it work!
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:46 am Reply with quote
egoist wrote:

Romance- And here we have the Mr Nice Guy who can't even touch a woman. I'll give you that spoiler[he kissed her], but that's about the only good romance part I've seen so far.


Dude. spoiler[they had sex, he proposed to her that night, and they planned their honeymoon all before the show ended. How much more did you need? ]
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:54 am Reply with quote
Dude, duuuude. Did they liek spoiler[have sex] while I blinked? Talk about being good at romance!!111!! Totally missed it, dude!
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:55 am Reply with quote
...were you expecting hentai? spoiler[Yes, I'm aware they weren't exactly descriptive, but your description of the guy as being afraid to touch a woman wasn't really accurate.]

Last edited by Bugnin on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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egoist



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:57 am Reply with quote
Really? How about kissing each other instead of putting his clothes on, like he just had an encounter with a hooker? What's wrong with you dude, that isn't even love. Much less romance.

Oh I'm sorry, I forgot that I had to be 100% accurate in this sanctified thread.


Last edited by egoist on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bugnin



Joined: 09 Sep 2012
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:59 am Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
Really? How about kissing each other instead of putting his clothes on, like he just had an encounter with a hooker?


Ok, that was pretty funny.

Believe it or not, it's written that way in the book, too. I'm not saying it was steamy, I'm just saying its not accurate that the leading male character won't touch a woman.
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EmbraceMe



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
Posts: 2015
Location: Growing old and jaded.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:59 am Reply with quote
Bugnin wrote:
...were you expecting hentai?


No, it could had been like Mirai Nikki's sex scene.
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