Forum - View topicWhy do people hate Dubs so much?
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therax
 Posts: 64 |
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Steroid's opinion has been the best I'v read to date *thumbs up*
Some people dont like cheese. I love cheese, but I dont go bashng people on the head with a Hickory Farms Cheese log either 
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DarkTenshi90
 Posts: 440 Location: Nebraska |
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I have more mixed feelings for dubs. If it's good, I'll watch it instead of the sub. If not, I'll continue watching the sub, so I give both the option and equal chance. People have their own opinions (god, how many times have I said this?) so it's okay for one to like subs better than dubs, but when they constantly bash it or call you a "moron" for liking them, then yeah, they really need to get a clue. I have noticed, lately, that a lot of anime has better sounding dubs (I like the Samurai Champloo, FLCL, Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh, anf Fruits Basket dubs, I like even more, I just don't feel like typing them all out.) however, if they sound like an adult and are still... five *cough Fullmetal Alchemist cough*, then yeah, that's just annoying.
When my mother watches anime with me, she prefers to watch it in english because she doesn't really care for subtitles (which is fine... at times XP) but she does also agree when a voice sounds like it didn't give enough effort into their role. Like Spiral, that's on my top ten most hated dubs of this year, but I love the sub. However, I don't care for the Cowboy Bebop sub as much as I do for the dub. Spike just seems more fitting with Steven Blum's voice, and Faye's voice fits her perfectly. It all depends on what your tastes are in anime and what not, but you can't flail around going "OMG, liek, how can u watch dat in english?!!!11" you're literally screaming at a brick wall. |
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Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
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Moderators, PLEASE can we put a "sub vs dub" thread and a "why dub sucks" thread as two separate stickies? I think we get both of these every month as regularly as a woman's period and we'd appreciate it if the threads were on a permanent bump aka stickies.
It's not like every new forum user knows what a "search" function is yet every new forum user knows the "new thread" function.
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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That was an acceptional review of dubbing Steroid, and mirrored many of my own feeling on the issue.
I just dislike many of the things that happen in a dub, such as the voices not suiting the characters, or not emoting as fully, and then rewriting dialog to sound more natural in English or to fit mouth-flaps, rather than simply to match the original Japanese dialog as closely as possible. I'd much prefer dub tracks that are word for word identical to the honest subtitle tracks, regardless of how that matches the character's mouth movements on screen. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6896 Location: Kazune City |
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I guess tastes can vary, but many reviews say that it's hilarious, including ones here on ANN, which also say that the original language track is uninteresting. ADV acknowledges that they weren't being 100% faithful, but the actual story is intact.
Again, most dubs do not cheat or deliberately distort the storyline, and only the infamously bad dubs try to completely deculturize the shows and pretend that they aren't set in Japan.
Read or Die TV, somewhere around episode 9 or 10--it's a classroom scene where they ask to translate an English phrase, and in the dub, they translate to Japanese--yes, dub actors speaking Japanese, quite interesting.
While I agree with most of what you say, this sounds like some of the elitism that I was talking about. R1 companies license anime and release it over here for the purpose of making money, not for the purpose of filling the collections of the "right" fans. There's no such thing as "people who have no business being fans"; if they like the shows and buy the DVDs, then their busines is appreciated. There is discussion here about the logistics of sub-only DVDs and a later dub release; it's neither feasible nor a good idea. I didn't post on that thread, but my opinion is that since most shows that come out on DVD these days have been fansubbed before (or after) licensing, the people who DL fansubs and want subtitled-only anime won't have incentive to buy the DVD, especially not if they believe that fansubbers do a superior job. Translation issues will be with us forever, but if anything, I think dubs are becoming closer and closer to the original; we're seeing more dubs that leave in -senpai and other name suffixes like -chan. -kun etc. |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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R1 companies are hardly the most objective source to cite in determining the best way to treat anime importing. As I have said elsewhere, if the goal is to make money (a noble goal to which I myself aspire 5 days a week), there are many easier ways to do so that do not involve distributing anime at all. It would be interesting to see the policies of a private non-profit anime distribution company to compare with those in existence.
There are people who do view anime superficially. I would be indifferent to them as long as they didn't come around to places, real and virtual, where the more dedicated fans are trying to engage in our obsessions. Part of the pride I feel as an otaku comes from knowing that I have stood apart from the world at large and dedicated myself to themes expressed in anime and manga. When some folks who have done no more than buy a DVD come to me and say, "Im n ANIME fan 2OO!" I can't help feeling a little insulted.
If that is the case, then I suppose I'll hear no more complaints about fansub downloading, yes? And I think a dual release would be possible thus: an anime is aired in Japan. It is immediately translated and released on the cheap around the world. The hardcore anime fans have a chance to see it and decide en masse whether it is worth seeing. If it is not, then costly dubbing can be avoided. If it is, then a dub can be done and distribution avenues explored to reach the less intense fans. If they want the hardcore fans to come back and buy this release, they will have to produce a dub that adds value, and not one that takes it away. This is the proper path for expanding the anime fandom--a caste system that rewards intensity instead of dismissing it, bringing more people in to the depths. Elitist? Perhaps. But the only barrier to joining the elite is the lack of desire on the part of the proletarian. |
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Nobuyuki
Posts: 536 |
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OMFG... 
The Fourth Thesis of Anime Fandumb: "Anime is not punk rock; if it pains you that so many people are getting interested in it, find another scene to go save, like Bollywood cinema. If you're bent out of shape that so many "new" fans run around talking about how much they love the televised editions of Pokemon or Sailor Moon, remember that everyone had to start somewhere, even you."
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nightmarelord
 Posts: 10 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell. |
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I like both dubs and subs. I watch both.
Not to ruffle feathers around here, but the only opinion that should matter in a case like this is our own. I don't need Eddie Van Halen to tell me that Sammy Hagar was the better frontman than David Lee Roth. I like both. Sometimes I am in a 1984 mood, other times I like Women and Children First. It is a matter of opinion and why anybody should fight which is better is dumb. You like it because you like it. Don't let anybody sell their beliefs onto you. |
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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I've read them. It's excrement. But if we have to declare someone pathetic, who is the better candidate: the person who cloisters himself in dedication to an ideal, or the person who tries to shame others out of their cloisters, in dedication to the golden calf of mediocrity? Last edited by Steroid on Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Yashouzoid
 Posts: 411 |
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Maybe my views towards dubs like Naruto are just a result of total messes like Yugioh or One Piece, but I don't really think anyone could call Naruto "horribly dubbed". While there may be some disagreements on castings between the fans and the voice directors, to me it doesn't really matter unless the actor can pull off a good performance. Personally I don't find any problem with the English Naruto voice overs, and the script is pleasantly intact. When companies make minor localizations, it doesn't really annoy me, particularly with TV dubs, where I'm more lenient on that sort of thing. Anime being dubbed is a neccessity to bring series over to America if there are any hopes for them to succeed (though there have been exceptions, the one I think of specifically is Cardcaptor Sakura, which outsold its edited dub-only counterparts), and for the most part, everyone's doing a good job. While ShoPro and Kids' WB!, and FUNimation in some cases (they've just started upping the count on Case Closed DVDs and... Dragonball Z has been in America for nine years now and we're STILL only getting 3 episodes per disc!?), need to get with the times and just about anything with the 4Kids name on it is a total disaster (exceptions being the Pokémon movies and Shaman King), I don't see much to complain about nowadays (aside from the given examples). Last edited by Yashouzoid on Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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2Real
 Posts: 249 |
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it is funny that after a entier day this thread is still going strong...
the only reason anyone hates anything is because they are narrow minded and cant accept it (wut ever they hate). if people would grow up and stop looking at things in black and white and relise there are more collars (a metaphore) then prehaps then we will see a change but, i highly doubt that this will ever happen because in my oppinion humanity as a whole is stupid (yes even me sometimes). the fact of the matter is that everyone has likes and dislikes, if only others can accept that and not go over-board. so lets all shut up sit down and get high together, and we can all share a good laugh. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Honestly, the Naruto dub (based on the first two episodes) is pretty good. Some pronounciations (like Chuunin and Juunin) didn't sound right to me, but they may have actually been correct. The general consensus, in my experience, seems to be that Naruto has a pretty good dub. The only people that seem to complain about it are people who hate anything dubbed and extreme elitist Narutards. Heck, I remember that some of them complained about 'edits' that didn't exitst. 
I may be repeating what some people have already said, but I'll say it anyways: I think there are several reasons for fans' hatred of dubs: 1. Bad experiences with dubs. There are some truly atrocious dub jobs. Especially the early ones, but there are bad dub jobs today as well. These experiences may have 'scarred' them and they just refuse to watch dubs or can't accept that good dubs do exist. I know zilch about psychology, but I suppose it's possible that bad dubbing could cause an pyschological aversion to dubs. 2. They see Anime as art and see dubbing as sacrilege akin to painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa By changing the spoken dialogue, the anime is not being watched in the way it 'was meant to be seen.' My personal opinion is that 'reason' is crap and is a thinly veiled justification for #3, but arguing this is for another thread, not here. 3. Elitism They believe that by watching it in the original language, the are superior to someone who has to have a show 'dumbed down' to their own language. It makes them feel like part of some exclusive club. 4. The allure of a foreign language. When Japanese is not you're first language or you don't understand it, it may have an exotic appeal. Plus, it's harder to tell when voice acting is bad when it's in a foreign language. 5. Audio sensibilities Just as people have different ways of learning (audio, visual, hands-on), people have different.. how should I put this... ways of appreciating things. People that lean toward audio pleasure sensing (for lack of a better term), the differences in the voice talent may be more obviouse. While there are good dubs, the Japanese studios have access to better voice talent because anime is mainstream in Japan. I actually heard this from someone on another forum, so I can't explain this properly. I will link to his post when I have a chance. The post was from months ago, so it may take me some time to find. |
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Mousuke
Posts: 4 Location: USA |
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Why I "hate" dubs:
1. Japanese sounds so much better on the ears 
2. Dubs often incorporate bad American lingo in attempt to make it "hip" 3. No Japanese culteral jokes/references 4. No -chan/-kun/-san/-sama endings (which can say a lot about the relationships between characters 5. Hearing characters call out their battle moves in English makes me cringe. I'd rather read a subtitle of the move "Half-Beast Clone" than hear it yelled out. 6. Odd sentence pacing (I know this is so the voices will match up with the mouth movements, but it still bothers me) 7. It's not so much that the dub VA aren't talented, but that their voices just can't live up to the titles of the Japanese VA 8. Also, dub VA are usually pretty bad at screaming, grunting, etc. 9. (Often) edited profanity 10. Malpronounciation/Overpronounciation (ex. Hitomi from Escaflowne *cringes*) So there you have it. I'm sure I have more, but that's all I can think of right now. In short, I feel that a lot of the anime is lost in dubbed additions, the voices are less than pleasing to the ear, and the VA end up making anime sound like Nickelodeon cartoons. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I could easily counter every point you just made if I thought it would do any good, but I'm fairly certain it won't as it's all perception anyways. I'll simply say this, you must have had rather limited exposure to dubs as those are quite broad generalizations to make and to openly state one hates all of something in general is almost admitting to confirmed bias. I watch subs and dubs of everything I own and don't see the majority of what you brought up in most titles and those I do are generally only television releases I don't bother with anyways.
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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That, and this thread isn't for debunking the reasons, just explaining them. Otherwise, I would have glady done so on some of the reasons I mentioned. If we start 'countering' reasons, this thread will likely degenerate quickly, so it's probably best that we don't. |
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