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Fencedude5609 wrote:

Bingal wrote:

He expanded on his critique and told you exactly what he did not like about K-ON!, which then got twisted and contorted on your part into an obvious straw man. You might want to look at your own advice and notice the specious reasoning behind fabricating his train of thought and falsely attacking his argument with misdirection by pointing out things he never stated nor even hinted at. ''You may want to consider that just because Chagen doesn't enjoy something doesn't mean that it sucks,'' for example, is a blatant showing of substituting his actual position with something irrelevent, with something he never said.

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My point is the complete and utter lack of conflict. Stories need conflict. SOL shows tend to be mind-crushingly boring because they don't even have conflict. There's no conflict between the main cast, they never have any problems, it's just a solid horrendously boring stream of sickening and cloying optimism.

This is, in fact, factually incorrect on multiple levels. K-On does have conflict, (albeit quite minor) and it assumes a number of things that stories "must" have that they, in fact, do not.

Additionally, extensively pontificating on a work you have not see very much of is always a danger. Which is why I don't comment on things I haven't seen or have seen very little of.

All I'm seeing is a passionate assertion, or should we start every opinionated sentence with ''In my opinion?'' If so, that sounds ridiculous, and honestly, doesn't amount to more than a tiresome reminder of our personal judgement. Go ahead and point out the flaws in his reasoning or criticism, but to say something as equally silly as the unsubstantiated opinion of the person you're attacking is self-defeating and pointless.

I first got my copy of this blu-ray on its launch day. On said day, my 8 year old brother was seriously ill at home and due to Mum being in hospital that day due to having treatment, I was home alone with him. He liked season 1, so I put season 2 on.

My brother was in a lot of pain. To put a long story short, the day after that he was rushed into hospital due to a bowel obstruction caused by a duplicated upper bowel that had become twisted. He had to have emergency surgery (which lasted 5 hours) and was in hospital for a month afterwards and still has a scar that literally goes from one side of his stomach to the other.

Despite all the pain he was in, while K-ON!! was on he was glued to the screen and barely even murmured while I hurried around doing whatever I could for him. So y'all can go on about whether you think K-ON! is what anime should be like in your ideal world or not or if the show has any substance, but whatever quality K-ON! has that makes it so engrossing, it was enough that it could keep the attention of a little boy who was in more pain than any of us could imagine.

So yeah. That's my two cents (or pence, because I'm British =3). Some people like K-ON!, some people don't, but I sure as hell am thankful that it exists. Personally, I loved K-ON! even before that (bringing back memories of my school days etc) but now, I absolutely adore it.

naninanino wrote:

Not really. The only one I remember is when Mio got annoyed by Ritsu, and for a reason too. I thought, "hmm, I guess we'll see an episode of them making up". We didn't, the whole thing was just air that accidentally got into the episode by a directing mistake. I was left with a bad taste in my mouth, since I really expected to see such developments.

I don't remember this moment (you need to be much more specific than "Mio gets annoyed at Ritsu"), but i'm not sure what you were expecting. Thats how their relationship works

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And that is what K-On lacks. Moments, nice moments that just feel good. Situations and dialogues that give substance to the characters standing and chemistry. I don't even believe that the characters are friends with each other. Why would I? They were doing nothing but fooling around. There was nothing to learn about them or their relations. And that is because they stay in the comedy mode all the time.

Yeah, like, the entire last half of the second season (and a good chunk of the first) and the movie, are all about this. If you couldn't see it, well...that actually makes me feel kinda bad for you.

Timeenforceranubis wrote:

Beatdigga wrote:

SquadmemberRitsu wrote:

Narutards need to learn what a good escapist anime is. But they're too busy watching their poorly animated excuse of a shonen cliche when they could be watching something much better made and a whole lot more fun

Please. Maybe a show that is nothing but pandering to a fetish isn't worth peoples time.

I like how people like to use the word "fetish" to when they talk about moé and shows that utilize moé. Might I ask what fetish K-ON! is pandering to?

Moe is a fetish, and it clearly shows in the way moe characters look and behave. When people refer to the moe fetish, that's what they're talking about.

K-On is souless, it is an artistic dead end, it is pointless. That is the problem, it is pointless.

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fet·ish
[fet-ish, fee-tish] Show IPA
noun
1.an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.
2.any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.
3.Psychology . any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

Which of these definitions do you ascribe to K-ON, Beatdigga?

Because if it's #2 then I agree with you.

Beatdigga wrote:

[Moe is a fetish, and it clearly shows in the way moe characters look and behave. When people refer to the moe fetish, that's what they're talking about.

Even if it is, which is highly debatable, so what? You can't just throw "fetish" around as a pejorative.

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K-On is souless, it is an artistic dead end, it is pointless. That is the problem, it is pointless.

K-On is the exact opposite of soulless, all the girls are complete characters, their actions flowing from their personality and the situations they are placed in.

As for "artistically dead" thats hilarious, K-On!! (and especially the movie) are a master class in animation as a medium. I'd advise reading this review of the movie. (Warning: Spoilers for K-On! The Movie and The Dark Knight Rises)

Beatdigga wrote:

Timeenforceranubis wrote:

Beatdigga wrote:

SquadmemberRitsu wrote:

Narutards need to learn what a good escapist anime is. But they're too busy watching their poorly animated excuse of a shonen cliche when they could be watching something much better made and a whole lot more fun

Please. Maybe a show that is nothing but pandering to a fetish isn't worth peoples time.

I like how people like to use the word "fetish" to when they talk about moé and shows that utilize moé. Might I ask what fetish K-ON! is pandering to?

Moe is a fetish, and it clearly shows in the way moe characters look and behave. When people refer to the moe fetish, that's what they're talking about.

K-On is souless, it is an artistic dead end, it is pointless. That is the problem, it is pointless.

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to explain to me how moé is a fetish, because, by referring to it as a "fetish," you're putting it in the same league as all the doo-doo in Night Shift Nurses and that's a pretty laughable prospect to me.

Also: "Soulless?" An "artistic dead end?" Please go on. I'd like to hear how you arrived at this conclusion.

Welcome to Fencedude5609's Q&A. Topic of the day: K-ON!

Oh damn, I'm a couple of days late. Can any moderator edit it into the first reply?

Like Pokemon, K-ON! was good enough until they tried to expand it. Unlike Aria (pardon me for the gross comparison), it doesn't have anything going for it besides cutesy, and 12 episodes was just around the edge of my endurance.

Beatdigga wrote:

Moe is a fetish, and it clearly shows in the way moe characters look and behave. When people refer to the moe fetish, that's what they're talking about.

K-On is souless, it is an artistic dead end, it is pointless. That is the problem, it is pointless.

For what it's worth I've never felt moe while watching K-ON! Sure the girls are cute, likeable and fun to watch but I don't feel moe towards any of them.
And I love K-ON!

Anyway I can't agree that K-ON! is soulless or an artistic dead end. At the very least its production values are too high for it to be an artistic dead end. It's a very good looking show. As for it being pointless, can't the fact that something is merely being entertaining be enough to justify its existence? It's fine if you hate K-ON! but calling it soulless,an artistic deadend and pointless does kind of beg for more elaboration.

notazaku wrote:

Beatdigga wrote:

Moe is a fetish, and it clearly shows in the way moe characters look and behave. When people refer to the moe fetish, that's what they're talking about.

K-On is souless, it is an artistic dead end, it is pointless. That is the problem, it is pointless.

For what it's worth I've never felt moe while watching K-ON! Sure the girls are cute, likeable and fun to watch but I don't feel moe towards any of them.
And I love K-ON!

Anyway I can't agree that K-ON! is soulless or an artistic dead end. At the very least its production values are too high for it to be an artistic dead end. It's a very good looking show. As for it being pointless, can't the fact that something is merely being entertaining be enough to justify its existence? It's fine if you hate K-ON! but calling it soulless,an artistic deadend and pointless does kind of beg for more elaboration.

He won't elaborate because he can't.

SquadmemberRitsu wrote:

notazaku wrote:

Beatdigga wrote:

Moe is a fetish, and it clearly shows in the way moe characters look and behave. When people refer to the moe fetish, that's what they're talking about.

K-On is souless, it is an artistic dead end, it is pointless. That is the problem, it is pointless.

For what it's worth I've never felt moe while watching K-ON! Sure the girls are cute, likeable and fun to watch but I don't feel moe towards any of them.
And I love K-ON!

Anyway I can't agree that K-ON! is soulless or an artistic dead end. At the very least its production values are too high for it to be an artistic dead end. It's a very good looking show. As for it being pointless, can't the fact that something is merely being entertaining be enough to justify its existence? It's fine if you hate K-ON! but calling it soulless,an artistic deadend and pointless does kind of beg for more elaboration.

He won't elaborate because he can't.

There's a lot of reasons for shows to exist. However, in the case of K-On, when the sole point is to promote this moe ideal at the expense of anything resembling literary value, the show becomes nothing more than a fetishistic piece. Wasn't Satoshi Kon decrying this type of work years ago? If anything, the obsession with cuteness and purity has become even more disturbing since Kon made Paranoia Agent.

Beatdigga wrote:

There's a lot of reasons for shows to exist.

In my opinion the most important reasons for shows to exist is to provide entertainment for fans and make money for producers. If the shows do not provide entertainment then the producers will not make money and will not be able to make more anime.
The entire K-On! franchise seems to be doing an excellent job of providing entertainment and making money. It will not be entertaining for everybody, but it is entertaining for enough people to make it very successful. Those are very good reasons for it to be what it is.

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... Satoshi Kon ...

Satoshi Kon was never involved in anything that was of interest to me.
That does not mean that there is anything wrong with him or the people who do like his work. It simply means that his work appeals to people with tastes that are different from mine, just as K-On! appeals to people with tastes that are different from yours.

Paranoia Agent is like salad. K-on! is like dessert. I have both Paranoia Agent and K-on! in my DVD collection. But I like a full meal, from the salad to the dessert and everything in between.

Razz

♪ You don't make friends with salad! ♪
♪ You don't make friends with salad! ♪
♪ You don't make friends with salad! ♪

There's always room for Jello.

Beatdigga wrote:

There's a lot of reasons for shows to exist. However, in the case of K-On, when the sole point is to promote this moe ideal at the expense of anything resembling literary value, the show becomes nothing more than a fetishistic piece. Wasn't Satoshi Kon decrying this type of work years ago? If anything, the obsession with cuteness and purity has become even more disturbing since Kon made Paranoia Agent.

If all you see in K-ON! is a fetishistic piece then I guess it is an artistic dead end for you at least but I can’t agree. Putting aside its solid production values, I also found K-ON! to be funny and genuinely touching at times. For example the anxiety over graduation and thus the club losing its members and leaving Azusa behind by herself, all looming in the near future. All that felt real not forced. To me that lifts the show above something that just panders to its audience.

Maybe K-ON! doesn’t have great literary value like Satoshi Kon’s work but it also doesn’t have to. Some things are just meant to be fun and entertaining, not deep and thoughtful.

But I have to ask why K-ON!? By that I mean, there are anime that pander a lot more aggressively with far less artistic merit. I’m not saying there’s no pandering in K-ON!. It’s just that there are other anime you could point to as an artistic dead end that fit the bill better than K-ON! which is more reserved in its pandering by comparison.

I've watched both seasons of K-ON!, and I must say, so far, from my viewpoint, it's one of the best slice-of-life anime shows that I've seen to date. Smile

I've enjoyed every single funny (and sometimes sad) moment that this show had to offer. Very Happy

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