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NEWS: Yuki Suetsugu Copies Art From Other Manga


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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:42 pm Reply with quote
That's too bad. I mean, frame copying is pretty dirty, but it sounds like this will probably ruin the mangaka's career, if not her life, while Rob Liefeld's been sitting pretty for years now for no worse.
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noisy_mouse



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Hrm.

As an artist, I have to say I was fairly unmoved by the scans. It is of course undeniable that she was copying off of that manga.

BUT you guys, having used photos and comics and just about anything else I could find for references for difficult positions myself, I think I can safely say that she did NOT mean to plagarize the manga and was just trying to find some good references of basketball-playing guys. She wasn't copying the linework or the compositions too much, you can see that she was mainly just copying the figures. I think it's pretty lazy to use someone else's stuff instead of doing your own research and taking your own photos, but I do not think she was trying to do anything more sinister than that.

This is an eye-opener for me, though. For my class assignments and projects, it's easy to grab photos and pictures from where ever to look at, I think I was beginning to take for granted that these images belong to someone else and I legally cannot copy them.
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Bahamut God



Joined: 10 May 2002
Posts: 113
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:58 am Reply with quote
Hmm, it doen't bug me that she copyed, a lot of it is simply copying the poses. I'm focus on the story than the art though. However, I've not read this series, so I don't know if maybe that was stolen as well...)

In any case, I wonder if this effects the Doujinshi community at all... I'm guessing it dosen't, because they went after a major publication.
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:33 am Reply with quote
Quote:

BUT you guys, having used photos and comics and just about anything else I could find for references for difficult positions myself, I think I can safely say that she did NOT mean to plagarize the manga and was just trying to find some good references of basketball-playing guys.


No, no. There's no excuse for a professional artist to copy another artist's work without crediting them. I don't fault her for the Kate Moss thing, that was taking a photo and turning it into a manga image. I also wouldn't fault her if she copied a photo or screen cap of an actual basket ball player, that's just refference. But the fact that she had a whitish looking guy shooting over a black guy's head, with the same hair, clothing, everything intact, it's too close. That's not refference, that's duplication.

I think what she did was wrong, I just think the reaction was a bit harsh.

Quote:

In any case, I wonder if this effects the Doujinshi community at all... I'm guessing it dosen't, because they went after a major publication.


Doujinshi is a separate thing. They are quite clearly copying the designs, and perhaps the style of some other artist, everybody knows it, and understands it, there's no deception there. The problem here is that she was trying to be sly about it, passing it off as her own original art. If she'd have actively sought permission from the original artist, and/or credited him in the back or something, it wouldn't have been an issue.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6215
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:39 am Reply with quote
not to sound controversial or anything... but i think the reason she's getting it worse is cause she's a woman.

Last edited by v1cious on Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:38 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Izlude



Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 323
Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:58 pm Reply with quote
Way to fight the system Tokyopop! Wooooooo! Razz Laughing

In other news, Battle Vixens is canceled due to a lawsuit filed by DC CMX!
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Haru to Ashura



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 617
Location: Termina
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:25 pm Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:
not to sound controversial or anything... but i think she's getting it worse is cause she's a woman.


Hmm...could be true. Who knows, there isn't enough info to say.
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blossom



Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Haru to Ashura wrote:
VespaChick wrote:
Haru to Ashura wrote:
VML wrote:
You people might wanna see this picture. Yuki also copied from a photo of Kate Moss! Shocked

[/url]


God, how could someone not have noticed that? Kodansha needs to hire some better editors, sheesh.


Drawing from a photo is not plagerism.
The other works are copying an image in the same medium, that's complete plagerism. However working from photos is hardly illegal and is what she should have done if she needed references for her other panels she copied.


Wrong, it depends on the nature of the photo. Drawing off of random stock-photos, self-taken photos, and unprofessional photography is fine. But coping off of this sort of photo is illegal (unless in the nature of parody) because this photo is professional and artistic - it's considered commercial art, as are manga/comics. Basically, even though it's not the same medium, it's an artist coping a different artist - they just used different mediums. If someone copied a Van Gogh painting, but used watercolors or pencil instead of oil, it would still be copying - same concept. Well-composed photography is accepted as a form of fine art and commerical art.


Well, I have see this type of plagerism frequently all over shoujo manga. I often seen tobira images patterned after famous photographs.
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shirokiryuu



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 714
Location: Northern California (SF Bay Area)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 11:38 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Wyvern"]
Haru to Ashura wrote:

I remember when L' Arc En Ciel was performing the fourth ending song to Rurouni Kenshin, and they actually removed it from the show and replaced it with the previous ending song because one of them had been caught doing cocaine or something...but unlike Psycho le Cemu, L'Arc is still around. Cause they rule.



umm... haven't you forgotten that Sakura (the one caught doing heroine) left the band? Yukihiro replaced him and that's why L'arc is still alive.
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jgreen



Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 1325
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:36 am Reply with quote
Haru to Ashura wrote:
It'd also be interesting to see if/how much plagurism occurs in the American comic industry.


Are you KIDDING me? This kind of thing is called "swiping" by the US comic book industry, and it happens ALL THE TIME. generally, if an artist is copying a well known image, like say referencing the layout of a famous cover, then generally where the artist signs the cover they will point it out (i.e. if I swiped the cover to Fantastic Four #1 I'd sign it "Jason Green After Jack Kirby").

There was a website with a "swipe of the week"file that detailed this stuff. The most infamous guy on the site was Rob Liefeld, the creator of Youngblood and former X-Force artist. When his "Fighting American" series started (FA himself was a ripoff of Captain America, but that's another story...), there were whole two-page spreads swiped from the manga "Eat Man."

But yeah, this kind of thing happens in American comics all the time, and while it's not illegal in any way, shape, or form, it's generally frowned upon, and a lot of the big swipers (Liefeld, Roger Cruz, Fabio Laguna) have a lot of trouble finding work.
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mrsatan



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 912
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:46 pm Reply with quote
Lots of other mangaka do this. Take a look the links at http://mitleid.cool.ne.jp/menu-p.htm.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4496
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:09 am Reply with quote
jgreen wrote:
Haru to Ashura wrote:
It'd also be interesting to see if/how much plagurism occurs in the American comic industry.


Are you KIDDING me? This kind of thing is called "swiping" by the US comic book industry, and it happens ALL THE TIME. generally, if an artist is copying a well known image, like say referencing the layout of a famous cover, then generally where the artist signs the cover they will point it out (i.e. if I swiped the cover to Fantastic Four #1 I'd sign it "Jason Green After Jack Kirby").

There was a website with a "swipe of the week"file that detailed this stuff. The most infamous guy on the site was Rob Liefeld, the creator of Youngblood and former X-Force artist. When his "Fighting American" series started (FA himself was a ripoff of Captain America, but that's another story...), there were whole two-page spreads swiped from the manga "Eat Man."

But yeah, this kind of thing happens in American comics all the time, and while it's not illegal in any way, shape, or form, it's generally frowned upon, and a lot of the big swipers (Liefeld, Roger Cruz, Fabio Laguna) have a lot of trouble finding work.


From everything I've seen, despite being the most hated man in comicdom, Rob Liefeld seems to be able to find work on a regular basis.

As for this manga-ka? Well, it goes to show, plagarism is wrong.

Don't be a Liefeld kids.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15445
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:09 am Reply with quote
Inoue updated, but made no comment about the plagiarism. (Although one of the pages of the latest Vagabond appears to have been printed wrong...) Poor guy must be really busy right now to issue a statement. (Yeah, he says it in the header: " I haven't been writing this news column, and I've been extending my deadlines and missing appointments, and I've even got a pile of telephone calls and messages from friends and peers that I haven't answered. I'm sorry, please forgive me.") Real 5's out next month. That's about it ATM.
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terren3i



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:50 am Reply with quote
most of you guys has been point missing, its not about the artist's morality when they do plagerisum, its JUST about the trouble they'll get when they do and when they get caught. No, in reality it is not illegal that you make reference from other people's work until THEY HAVE PROVEN THAT YOUR GUILTY! and believe me they will try if they found it you've got a lotta cash, issue mostly from the company but not from individual, because that meants million of cash involved. So watch out kids when you publish something for real. FOr me i think she's really way out of it, for messing with a manga that high influrential not just in Japan but about in all other asia countries. or she wrote too many doushiji she couldnt help it. *side note* it is unofficial rule you can referencing anything except those from your own field, the difference in japan and in america is crediting someone's name isnt good enough in japan, its simply "you cant, so dun ask, get your own stuff". for myself, i always support original creativity.
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Ztarr



Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:34 pm Reply with quote
As a mangaka myself, I just hope that people don't get "plagerisum" and "reference" mixed up.

What makes the basketball scene plagerisum is that it is nearly identical in everyway-- the characters aren't really changed, and even the panel layout is pretty much the same.

Reference is when you take the composition of something and apply that same composition to your own art. This is not plagerisum... you can take a pose, for example, from a character, and apply it to your own. However, you can't take that character's hair, face, clothes, etc... and place it in the exact same page layout!

I would just hate to see someone accused of plagerism by someone who thinks that using any reference at all is "cheating".
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