Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2005-10-14]
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Zaraki
Posts: 27 |
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Like me. That's exactly what I do. I have a sixty gig hard drive, and while that's not really anything to scoff at, having tons of anime lying around would certainly fill it up quick. As to the fansub debate, it's because of fansubs that I own a lot of the anime that I do. One example is Elfen Lied; I downloaded it, liked it and currently own the first two volumes and plan on getting the remaining two. It's the same with other series. Neon Genesis Evangelion, Fullmetal Alchemist, Tenjou Tenge, Excel Saga, Samurai Champloo, Naruto, Bleach - all series I have or am planning to get because of fansubs. So it may of been illegal to download them, but because I did, I went and spent money buying them and supporting the industry - something I wouldn'tve of done otherwise. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Somehow I feel there's a higher ratio of Sinophobia among North American anime fans then among average North Americans. Please read more carefully next time:
Red texts have shown that aden was not from China. [Edit: Aden Posted From Baltimore -t] |
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Dagwood
 Posts: 222 |
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 Have you ever acted before? Acting takes a lot of talent. On the stage and in film you can express your character through many different visual cues along with the voice. In voice acting you have only your voice to express feeling. It’s tremendously difficult.
 ) myself, I can appreciate the vast amount of talent these people posses. I'm impartial when it comes to anime (sub or dub). I really enjoy hearing both Japanese and English actors; for me an anime DVD is a two in one deal  .
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Somehow I get the feeling that those of you who still can't grasp the concept of business, economy, and therefore life (this damned human existence we created for ourselves) have never held a job or been in a position were something you've worked hard for was stolen. In a few years, if and when you grow up and mature a little, maybe you'll understand. Things aren’t free, life isn't easy, and the world doesn't revolve around you. Now, I don't want this statement, which is in no way general, to be blown out of proportion just like dear Zac's editorial. Seriously, I just don’t see why some of you got so offended. I guess my final point is that I applaud Zac for telling it like it is. If he held back always worried he might offend someone we probably wouldn't have much of a column to read. Every time I read the column it’s like a deep breath of fresh air. Keep up your unique work Zac  , “Normality is a myth; and those who seek it are lost. Where as those who accept their individuality and can embrace it, they are free.”
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Well, I think that the issue is the subject matter and the writer's style (confrontational at times). If a writer thinks that a certain group or person supplying a question is <insert inflammatory description here>, that's fine, but he/she shouldn't reveal it on a public forum unless the point is to generate controversy in my opinion. While the Naruto question prob has been done before, the person submitting still took the time to participate on your website and should have received some type of decent treatment. "Flake of the Week", while it is an amusing title, is actually insulting the contributor. I feel that your site should be above this type of behaviour. It may not have been Zac's intention to insult fansubbers, but this statement actually does. "They" refers to the anime fan sub-group and not the fansubbers.
You also should note that the original question was not adequately answered in my opinion. The original question to refresh everyone's memory was
The questioner then goes on to describe the anime fan sub-group he is in contact with. A similar question was answered in these Ask John column posts. http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=694 http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1040 Here is another Ask John post that touches on fansubs. http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1177 Please note that in all his responses John never insults the questioner. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10455 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Nor did Zac. Zac insulted the people the questioner was going to argue with. And yes, he did answer the question. He may not have provided the answer that the questioner was looking for, but he addresed the issue nonetheless. Arguing with certain people about the validity of dubs is a complete waste of time if these people are just using the arguement as an excuse for a completely different issue. Zac obviously believes that the people the questioner is referring to fall into this category, so rather address their "excuse," he addressed what he believes to be the root of the issue.
You know, you're absolutely right. Zac was insulting towards this person as well as a particular kind of fansubber. Earlier in this thread I've already explained why that doesn't bother me and why I'll allow him to continue with the Flake of the week. -t |
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MissLeedz
Posts: 5 Location: AK |
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Well I guess I was wrong. I wonder if that is like the $99 I shell out a month for my dish service? or do they have to pay viewer fees on top of a cable or dish subscription? This sort of stuff has been around since the beginning of time. People always want to get something for free. I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon. I buy, I download, I don't think I am going to hell (well not for that anyway) |
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Chrno2
 Posts: 6172 Location: USA |
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Hahaha!! Was the only part of the comment you 'zero'd in on? I said it, and you're wrong right there. You can't assume or prove that I'm lying. You don't know what I do. Did I say I never downloaded fansubs? NOOO! I admitted that I did. To say that I don't ALOUD and then do it in secrecy would be hyprocracy. So why can't I waste bandwith just to DL and then delete an episode? What? I'm supposed to keep them? Keep a inferior product of a show when the likelyhood of it getting released are high? Get real! First of all there are tons of shows out there. Too many for me to even care for. Of the shows I watch on a whim or have an interest in; only a small fraction will make it into my collection. YES, I DO buy the anime I've watched fansubbed once it gets licensed. I may not rush out right away because it does cost a bit. Which is why I wait for the "thinpaks", which are more economical. But it all depends whether I want it now or later. My collection consists of both domestic and import releases. Some of which are import DVD and LDs of shows I bought on a whim. Because I was interested and didn't think the shows would ever come here. Guess what? They did. Want to know something else? There were no BT fansubs there were magazines to do your homework from. So some people do take the plunge. I bought the entire 'Saikano' series without seeing any fansubs on it. Still sound too unrealistic to you? It's only because fansubs exist that people are now being picky. It's the same old argument about video games too. So I've heard it all before. As for the guy that can pay $1.25 for an entire series. Good for you! <sarcastic clapping> Most of my research for work comes from fansubs. So I'll admit that I kind of view the whole deal like a TV network. Only difference is that you don't have to go into Japanese video rental shop for a show. And some of those place DO sell copies of TV series. But yes, I'm still aware that fansubs are still illegal and unethical and there is no way around it unless something positive can be worked out. Yeah, it's not natural. I'm being hypocritical, I'm lying my sweet sweet ass off. I should DL anime all day and not delete it because that makes no sense. I should keep it on my HDD and never ever spend my hard earned cash for a series because I got it for "free." After all why should I pay those big bastard companies who want to make a profit off anime. If that's what you believe fine. It's your opinion, but not mine. Sure fansubs are here to stay no more than the rich staying rich and the poor pirating to put food on the table. Welcome to the real world. Last edited by Chrno2 on Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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MissLeedz
Posts: 5 Location: AK |
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I know I walked into that one by mentioning 'hell'. The commandments are being broken countless times in the Anime we are paying through the nose (and others not so much  ) to watch, so let's not go there...anymore.
I know this is an extreme analogy but it is kind of like saying I pay for all the porn I watch so I am just and you are a degenerate because you steal it off the internet. I'm sure all the people claiming to buy all their anime don't just watch Pokemon. because I am sure this could be debated forever, I will end by saying this: I am evil before anyone else passes judgement on me, I download (steal) anime and manga, I still the artists' livelihood. I watch anime and manga, I watch porn(oddly enough I do pay for it), I do drugs legal and otherwise, I lie to my kids(Santa , the easter bunny btw who have nothing to do with the original intention of the holiday they represent), I judge people based on their looks, blah, blah. I am so glad for the righteous on this forum to show me the light.  (bow, exit stage left)
“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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( Goes off to get a bag of stones.)
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shenlongmizuno
 Posts: 51 |
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I cannot speak for other but the reason why I reacted so negatively is simply because his comments about fansubs reminded me of teachers/professors who use the classroom to preach their political ideology and politicians who will use any opportunity as weapons to attack their opponents and further their political goals. I hate people who constantly bash others over the head with their private agendas in situations where they are unecessary and unwanted.
Read the Answerman article, it was just the tired old sub vs dub debate and instead of answering the question zac went on his little fansub rant. Even thought I generally agree with what he is saying, people who act in that manner rub me the wrong way. gg |
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MissLeedz
Posts: 5 Location: AK |
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If you read all the listings..I do pay for anime just not all of it. Organized crime? LMAO Why don't you look at yourself in the mirror and be honest with you, you are not perfect nor am I so get off your high horse. |
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matthewlow
 Posts: 147 Location: San Ramon, California |
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So true, so quickly we forget.
Amen. I'm one of the few people I know in everyday life that believes file transferring programs and downloading episodes is evil, and prefers to buy all his anime even if I've already seen it before. And yes I know I have problems, but if you look for sales on the internet, I've bought many DVDs of series like DBGT, Inuyasha, Case Closed, YuYu Hakusho, among others, for $10.49-$14.99 each, mostly around $13.49. Preordered that is. Shipped too. It's hard for me to find an excuse not to buy there. Anyway, I wanted to supplement Zac's points about becoming an anime writer with my personal experience: I'm a writer for Scrye magazine, which isn't anime but rather a gaming magazine, as in card and miniatures games. I'm sure that many of the tactics are similar though, and hopefully someone will get something out of this. As a writer for Scrye, I write for two popular anime card games, Inuyasha and Dragon Ball Z. How I got there took a lot of work. A lot. At 16 years old, I first started out as a novice DBZ player with decent English skills, and top cut one event, which in reality doesn't mean much. A call went out on Pojo.com, a site for mostly card games but a few of other things as well, looking for Card of the Day reviewers for DBZ. I offered to join the staff, and was offered a position. Note that this was all voluntary; I have never gotten paid for it. After just a few reviews where I went above and beyond expectations to review the cards, I was offered an article in Pojo's Unofficial Guide to DBZ. Soon after I was sent email from fans of the game, and then opened up an answer column that ended up taking a lot of my free time. I would be sent multiple emails each week and soon would not be able to keep with the amount of traffic because it would end up being a part-time job to keep up. My accomplishments in the game started to build up as I attended event after event, which helped me to spread my name. After over nearly one and a half years, the owner of Pojo.com recommended me to another writer who wrote for Scrye as well as Pojo. He pointed me to Jason Winter, then editor of Scrye, who read some of my work, was pleased by it, and contacted me to add me to their list of freelance writers. I was assigned an article later that summer of 2004, and ever since then I've been assigned more articles with increased frequency, sometimes one on each game in a single issue. Sometimes to get this far, you need to be selfless and be willing to help others and write for free. When I first wrote for Pojo.com, I did it because I wanted to write and help others, and never thought I'd ever write for Scrye. I'm thankful I've gotten this far, but it would have never started if I didn't write for free for years. Hope that helps. |
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Mike Toole
 SubscriberANN Columnist  Posts: 105 Location: THE GOOD OLE U-S-A |
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While we're punching holes in fallacies, let me step in on this little side discussion.
These days, lots of of Japanese seiyuu go to special schools for voice acting. Most of these schools are not accredited in any way, and in fact, they're kind of the equivalent of those "Can you draw Pepe the dog? FREE ART SCHOLARSHIP FOR YOU!" charnel house art schools. The rest are gormless, talentless idiots with pretty faces who won talent shows or magazine contests. By way of example, let's go with, say, Haruko Momoi. Now I like "Halko," she's funny and subversive. But she got her start in performing by making songs for pornographic video games and appearing on TV shows about mobile phones. She has practically no range-- her entire schtick is about cartoonishly imitating the speech and pitch of a young girl. Yet, she's quite popular. Compare an established star like her with Crispin Freeman. Freeman didn't go to Seiyuu University. Nope. Instead, he has a Masters of Fine Arts from Columbia University, and cut his teeth performing on Broadway and at the American Repertory Theatre. He's a hard-working screen and stage actor who's appeared all over North America, and has worked as a voice actor in both New York and Los Angeles. Yet, for all of his work, he's still a youngster, a pup, compared to established voice acting giants like Billy West, Maurice Lemarche, and Tress MacNeille. Compared to an actor like him, the experience and techniques that seiyuu get from their little schools in this day and age are laughable. Laughable. And Freeman is by no means an anomaly, either-- most North American voice actors, regardless of location, have some considerable training and/or education in theatre, a background to draw upon for their recorded performances. Not so in Japan, at least not today. The quality of performance in Japanese voice acting has, in my opinion, degraded considerably in the last twenty years. Once upon a time, it WAS a demanding career run through with talented, versatile actors-- people like Mika Doi, Akira Kamiya, and Kaneto Shiozawa. These days, who do we have? Ayako Kawasumi, maybe? George Nakata? Anyone else? Anyone? Anyway, a couple of more points:
Try watching your gaudy fonts on a standard TV. Not so pretty anymore, eh? Besides that, the DVD spec doesn't allow for lots of fanciness.
Almost to a person, pro translators are longtime fans. Many, like Dave Fleming and Anna Exter, were once fansubbers themselves. They are not motivated purely by greed, nor do they disregard the nuances of the shows they work on. They are simply people who are good enough at their craft to make a career of it. The big lie of "Commercial translators do not care about the work they do" is one that offends me greatly, because I know a lot of these people and have observed firsthand the care they put into their work. At any rate, Zac's remarks (and Justin's elaborations) are correct, and I'm gratified that someone stepped up and said it. |
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Sage Shinigami
Posts: 3 |
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I'll agree with this. I'll also say that I love how people can find faults in the way English VAs pronounce Japanese names and words, but no "fan" cringes when they're watching fansubs and a Japanese VA absolutely murders an English word. Happens a lot, but no one says anything. Amazing...
Almost to a person, pro translators are longtime fans. Many, like Dave Fleming and Anna Exter, were once fansubbers themselves. They are not motivated purely by greed, nor do they disregard the nuances of the shows they work on. They are simply people who are good enough at their craft to make a career of it. The big lie of "Commercial translators do not care about the work they do" is one that offends me greatly, because I know a lot of these people and have observed firsthand the care they put into their work. [/QUOTE] I always wondered about this. It seemed to me that many of the people that donate all their time (even if they are being paid) to such a slow process as translating would most likely love anime. And it sort of figured to me that a lot of fan translators eventually stepped up to doing it professionally.
Maybe so, but looking through this topic...was it really worth it?  Seriously though: There are many types of anime fans, and some of them are respectable and some of them are not--I'd rather not bother insulting any of them, because they all have their "reasons" for doing what they do. Whether they be actual reasons or very flimsy excuses..
Personally, I know anime can't be free, and I do download ones that have been licensed. But I spend every dime I get on anime when I can. Last year, I was given 100 bucks to spend on whatever I wanted. I went right to the store and plopped it down to buy Martian Successor Nadesico--an anime I'd never seen on fansub, just because it looked interesting. But then, I don't need to defend myself because--Zac wasn't really talking about me. I clearly spend money on anime, and I obviously don't think it should be free. So I wasn't the one he snapped on. 
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