Forum - View topicNEWS: Crunchyroll to Stream Puella Magi Madoka Magica Anime
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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No, everyone except you is saying that the company that designed the DVD-ROMS to be a permanent record of data knows full well that you cannot rewrite DVD-ROMS. I don't know whether CD-R's are bit 0 or bit 1 as pressed, but the write laser melts what's there to flip it the other way. So if its bit 0 originally, and you had exact enough writer software and hardware, "00000000" could be rewritten to anything, but "11111110" could be left as is or rewritten to "11111111". So people writing write-protect routines for CD-R media would have to be sure that you can't hack it by flipping unset bits to set bits. Back in the old days there were a few hacks along these lines for EPROMs, where someone with an EPROM writer could hack a cartridge by rewriting the same data except for a few key unset bits changed to set bits. One was for the NMOS6502 (Apple II, C64, NES, early Atari's), so I don't recall whether it was "11111111" changed to "00000000" or the other way around, but as I recall it involved either inserting or removing a BRK instruction ("000000" in the 6502 family). But EPROMs were cheaper per unit than ROMs at the production runs common in lots of software niches in the late 70's / early 80's. Writable optical media, on the other hand, costs more per disk than disks with the data molded in at the factory for any sales volume that justifies a release. Unless its a DVD-OnDemand setup there is no financial incentive to release on writable media instead of factory-molded media. So its factory-written optical media you are talking about rewriting, and factory-written optical media cannot be rewritten, as everyone says, and you insist it can based on zero evidence except that you claimed it could and now it would be embarassing for you to admit that you were spouting nonsense. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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GATSU vs. The World (The ANN hemisphere, that is)
ANN's own version of Jack@ss, because it's always amusing to watch people slam into a brick wall face first. 
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GATSU
Posts: 15462 |
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TheAncientOne:
Because then they can just cut and paste English on the Japanese text and not have to pay for new packages. That, and they could probably just reuse warehouse boxes with returned items without having to pay for new ones. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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In other words, it would save packaging and shipping costs by making packaging and shipping costs higher. Duh! TAO, why don't you get it that a far more expensive grossly labor intensive process is a "saving" compared to a mechanized, standardized, automated process! GATSU, I'm happy you mentioned warehouse boxes, because I worked in a warehouse for a while, and I can tell you that no ifs, ands, or buts, you are talking nonsense on that front. If the warehouse cartons can be reused, they can be reused either way. And the cost of warehouse cartons are a tiny fraction of the total cost of the warehousing of the product. |
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TheAncientOne
 Posts: 1884 Location: USA (mid-south) |
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Which they could also do if they were pulling out the old discs and putting in new ones. Re-using packaging would have nothing to do with the discs themselves. You also overlook that unless the work is being done in a country where labor is cheap (i.e., not Japan or the U.S.), labor on any repackaging can quickly negate the cost of the packaging itself. Your explanation also seems to include no savings of shipping costs. In fact, shipping costs could actually be higher, as the discs and packaging would have to be shipped from Japan, rather than being manufactured here in the United States. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15462 |
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agila:
As opposed to paying for new packages, which you also gotta sort into different boxes so you don't accidentally ship out R2 discs.
Except they're sharing it with Sony, so that cost should be negligible. Ancientone:
If it's the same people repackaging discs who packaged them the first time around, then labor costs should be the same, no?
Well, materials are going to be shipped overseas, anyway. The CDs are probably imports, for example. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2242 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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To the general point, though,
Of course work (and therefore, money) can be saved by reusing assets when re-authoring discs. For example, for the work I do for Siren in Australia, instead of re-rendering the subtitle tracks from scripts and retiming everything, I resize the bmps to PAL and ramp-shift all the timecodes to account for the NTSC->PAL speedup (about 4.7%). Then the subtitles can be used without modification, even with new menus and PAL instead of NTSC video. Actually, although I don't think this has ever been done, it might be possible to save a lot of money on blu-ray licensing costs by adding in english subs and keeping the rest of the disc about the same, and trying to get away with only a single ACSS license (which is something like $3000 a disc). I.e. sell a version in Japan w/ no subs. Then add subs but claim it's like an "upgraded" version or something of the same disc... I'm not sure whether you can get away with that, but I bet if the episode content doesn't change, just adding subs wouldn't require a unique license. |
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TheAncientOne
Posts: 1884 Location: USA (mid-south) |
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LOL. I take it you've never worked in a production plant of any kind if you believe repackaging something would be the same amount of labor (and therefore labor cost) as packaging the same item. Also, in most disc manufacturing plants, packaging is a mostly automated process, whereas repackaging would have to be done by manual labor. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2imL8EmOtSQ Lest we stray too far, let us also not forget the fundamental problem with your original assertion: Commercial (stamped) optical discs cannot be re-encoded after manufacture. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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Precisely, it saves packaging and shipping costs by making packaging and shipping costs higher, as opposed to the cheaper approach of new packages coming off an efficient, mechanized production line. And as you point out, your approach being labor intensive is prone to mistakes such as accidentally shipping out R2 disks, where the cheaper alternative is making all fresh R1 disks from R1 molds made from an R1 master, so there is no danger of accidentally shipping out R2 disks because R2 disks were never part of the process ~ it went from materials (which as samuelp points out will be open to lots of re-use, because they are data rather than physical media) to mastering to production with no R2 disks anywhere along the process to accidentally get mixed into the workflow. And as TAO noted, you are skipping the whole point that there is no way to do the key step. The only thing that could conceivably be reused is the plastic disk backing the optical media: the optical media itself is molded at the start to contain the information, it is not designed to be remoldable: quite the reverse, since with early problems with durability of DVD's, the design push was to make them more permanent. They started out with insufficient malleability to be remolded, and what malleability they had (which did not render them rewriteable, it only rendered them useless) has been engineered out of them since. Its only in market segments where production runs in the singles to hundreds are needed that writable media is used, and even there the cheaper write-once media is used rather than the more expensive rewriteable media. |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Guys, you are all arguing with a brick wall, except it's even more pointless, as a brick wall at least doesn't respond with completely illogical answers.
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