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Hey, Answerman! - Requiem For a Mangastream


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Petrea Mitchell



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Near Portland, OR
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:08 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
You can't pirate those sexy little PVC figures. I know plenty of people who don't pay a dime for anime and manga, yet will drop hundreds on PVC figures of the characters and other merchandise.


Give 3D printers a few more years, and I think we'll start seeing cheap homemade knockoffs of the PVC figurines. After that, it'll take time to improve the quality of the knockoffs, but it will happen.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:19 pm Reply with quote
Petrea Mitchell wrote:
TitanXL wrote:
You can't pirate those sexy little PVC figures. I know plenty of people who don't pay a dime for anime and manga, yet will drop hundreds on PVC figures of the characters and other merchandise.


Give 3D printers a few more years, and I think we'll start seeing cheap homemade knockoffs of the PVC figurines. After that, it'll take time to improve the quality of the knockoffs, but it will happen.
There's a series of Lucky Star figures with real cloths, which I'm pretty sure 3D printers will never be able to do, so there's plenty of ways to deal with the issue that could be started today. Of course, figures have a fairly short turnaround, so I'm not even sure the makers will care - so long as the designs don't leak before the thing ships, they're golden.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:29 pm Reply with quote
This brings up something I addressed in my own thread in the Manga section. What I believe is a huge potential growth area in terms of capitalizing on digital manga is being overlooked too long. An online version of anything associated with Viz will obviously only cater to mainstream title fans. So why not a online, subscription based digital manga site that caters exclusively to very niche titles that actually make up a large portion of titles released in Japan?

Because of physical copies, we have this mindset that something needs to move a lot of copies to be profitable. Something that is very niche, and not attractive to a mainstream audience is not going to sell a lot of copies no matter what you do. Take the advantage of direct to digital (in multiple languages), so that costs to distribute it to reader are negligible compared to the costs with simply creating the title. The one difficulty to consider of course is DRM or other means to prevent unauthorized dissemination to non-subscribers. DRM makes people nervous and really preventing a subscriber from simply screen-capturing those images and posting them on a website is something I don't have a solution for. So yes it has its own challenges.

But I think there are people out there who want to support these niche title manga-ka, and the Mangafox, etc. user will still always be there but at least some revenue is coming from the fans who do care about the objectives of the industry, but importing is too much of an inconvenience/cost. And we can feel good that we are supporting artists of the type of stuff we like to read.
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Ichigo77



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 389
Location: California
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:11 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

Answerman: do you still go to conventions (aside from for "work")? I only ask because it seems like a lot of ANIME fans (people who watch and truly enjoy ANIME) do not. Why? Because they're full of a bunch of internet-meme spouting brats. How much cosplay now is taken with "Homestuck" or "Ponies" or "Dr Who" or various video game franchises? I'd say your odds are at LEAST 50/50, if you swing your arm out at an anime con you'd hit someone who would have no issue admitting that they either haven't watched any anime in the last 3-5 years or even ever.


From what I have seen it is more the younger fans. I think a part of anime fandom has mutated and become like the anti comic con. Comic Con has went from being a comic cook convention to this mainstream appeal show where shows like Glee and Shameless appear there and people who haven't read a comic in their life go because comic con is now a media con. It seems with anime fandom the cons are being used for the opposite as in the immature niche crowd hang outs there and that is where their stuff is represented, but I see it more at the local cons. Last year fanime was fine but at sac anime its like a 12-16 year old hang out where the parents drop them for the weekend to get out of their hair. I can just tell by looking at them they don't buy anime or manga. I would truly hate to see anime cons go the way of comic con but I think if anything the local cons will go first and then perhaps us older fans can do what we can to save the bigger ones.


TitanXL wrote:


Keep in mind the western anime fandom is one of the most spoiled communities on the planet for one simple fact: nothing that happens in the west really matters at the end of the day. Japan doesn't look at sales in America and make it's decisions based on that. What only matters is how much the series does in it's home country. Anime and manga lived for decades before it even got big in the US, and it'll live on even after it leaves (or more accurately, the licensing companies fold, since fansubs will still be going strong). That's the true fault of the comparison: American comics, shows, and video games don't have that luxery, which is why they're so concerned about piracy. All piracy really affects in the US is companies like Viz and Funimation, so people should be more concerned about supporting them than the original creators.


Very true. When I see all these 15 year old girls screaming when Vic Mignogna walks into his panel at a con I think to myself "Do they not realize if they keep pirating Vic will not only be out of a job but the licensing companies will go under, anime will be nothing here, and it wouldn't be legal to have cons if there is no legal anime here. Sure Vic could probably get by with video games and american stuff but with no anime all those voice actors are going to be competing for less jobs.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:16 pm Reply with quote
Past wrote:
This brings up something I addressed in my own thread in the Manga section. What I believe is a huge potential growth area in terms of capitalizing on digital manga is being overlooked too long. An online version of anything associated with Viz will obviously only cater to mainstream title fans. So why not a online, subscription based digital manga site that caters exclusively to very niche titles that actually make up a large portion of titles released in Japan?


Like JManga, which has already published volumes from three different yuri series, Girlfriends, Poor Poor Lips, and Love My Life?
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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 1727
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:45 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Keep in mind the western anime fandom is one of the most spoiled communities on the planet for one simple fact: nothing that happens in the west really matters at the end of the day. Japan doesn't look at sales in America and make it's decisions based on that. What only matters is how much the series does in it's home country. Anime and manga lived for decades before it even got big in the US, and it'll live on even after it leaves (or more accurately, the licensing companies fold, since fansubs will still be going strong). That's the true fault of the comparison: American comics, shows, and video games don't have that luxery, which is why they're so concerned about piracy. All piracy really affects in the US is companies like Viz and Funimation, so people should be more concerned about supporting them than the original creators.


Japan is still concern about piracy or else we wouldn't be hearing stories of how they keep arresting people who distribute it in their country. Also how some game companies like Nintendo region-locking their 3DS. I know there are a few cases of Japanese media expanding due to increase sales from the West, so its possible they might look to overseas sells for a few things sales are strong.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:16 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
Past wrote:
This brings up something I addressed in my own thread in the Manga section. What I believe is a huge potential growth area in terms of capitalizing on digital manga is being overlooked too long. An online version of anything associated with Viz will obviously only cater to mainstream title fans. So why not a online, subscription based digital manga site that caters exclusively to very niche titles that actually make up a large portion of titles released in Japan?


Like JManga, which has already published volumes from three different yuri series, Girlfriends, Poor Poor Lips, and Love My Life?
Oh thank you so much, I was not familiar with that site. I've already written them an email stating my interest in gender benders (they currently have zero, zilch, nada), but I will pester and annoy them Wink until that changes.
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Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:56 am Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:
Answerman wrote:
And honestly, I've never really agreed with the argument that there's a large group of fans who just "will never buy anything anyway." Because a pretty solid percentage of those fans whose only exposure to anime is through fansubs and scanlations will gleefully spend the money to go to conventions, make costumes, and so forth. And that's not cheap. It costs a pretty penny to rent a hotel room in Baltimore, or to purchase enough plastic and PVC pipe to construct your own sword from Bleach.

Answerman: do you still go to conventions (aside from for "work")? I only ask because it seems like a lot of ANIME fans (people who watch and truly enjoy ANIME) do not. Why? Because they're full of a bunch of internet-meme spouting brats. How much cosplay now is taken with "Homestuck" or "Ponies" or "Dr Who" or various video game franchises? I'd say your odds are at LEAST 50/50, if you swing your arm out at an anime con you'd hit someone who would have no issue admitting that they either haven't watched any anime in the last 3-5 years or even ever.

Then there's the idea that your con-goers are your biggest buyers. Like there was a panel last year by JET that was doing a survey on US consumption habits, and when asked "do you prefer to buy physically or digitally," pretty much everyone wanted something physical.

Course the two people I remember talking to there weren't big fansub folks. One guy was back in '06 that prefered dubs because he couldn't read subs fast enough for it to work, another came from the SoCal outskirts and didn't have the internet connection to torrent things, all her shows came from youtube rips when visiting friends.
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Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:02 am Reply with quote
Past wrote:
This brings up something I addressed in my own thread in the Manga section. What I believe is a huge potential growth area in terms of capitalizing on digital manga is being overlooked too long. An online version of anything associated with Viz will obviously only cater to mainstream title fans. So why not a online, subscription based digital manga site that caters exclusively to very niche titles that actually make up a large portion of titles released in Japan?

Because of physical copies, we have this mindset that something needs to move a lot of copies to be profitable. Something that is very niche, and not attractive to a mainstream audience is not going to sell a lot of copies no matter what you do. Take the advantage of direct to digital (in multiple languages), so that costs to distribute it to reader are negligible compared to the costs with simply creating the title. The one difficulty to consider of course is DRM or other means to prevent unauthorized dissemination to non-subscribers. DRM makes people nervous and really preventing a subscriber from simply screen-capturing those images and posting them on a website is something I don't have a solution for. So yes it has its own challenges.

But I think there are people out there who want to support these niche title manga-ka, and the Mangafox, etc. user will still always be there but at least some revenue is coming from the fans who do care about the objectives of the industry, but importing is too much of an inconvenience/cost. And we can feel good that we are supporting artists of the type of stuff we like to read.


What you do is don't worry about that dissemination. Either provide the most unobtrusive and invisible DRM or non at all, but worrying about that and trying to prevent that is just unrealistic.
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:44 am Reply with quote
Asterisk-CGY wrote:

Then there's the idea that your con-goers are your biggest buyers. Like there was a panel last year by JET that was doing a survey on US consumption habits, and when asked "do you prefer to buy physically or digitally," pretty much everyone wanted something physical.

I'd would be better to base judgement on actual sales, not wishes. Everyone would like to have mangas printed on snow white paper with hard covers, but in fact people (apart from die hard fans or collectors) tend to buy what's cheaper and more available.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:53 am Reply with quote
Asterisk-CGY wrote:
Past wrote:
... The one difficulty to consider of course is DRM or other means to prevent unauthorized dissemination to non-subscribers. DRM makes people nervous and really preventing a subscriber from simply screen-capturing those images and posting them on a website is something I don't have a solution for. So yes it has its own challenges. ...

What you do is don't worry about that dissemination. Either provide the most unobtrusive and invisible DRM or non at all, but worrying about that and trying to prevent that is just unrealistic.

A second alternative is to worry about the dissemination but drop the fantasy that there is some DRM that will prevent it. Digital fingerprinting is far more useful for finding the file sources of the highest volume bootleg publishers, and its only the high volume bootleg publishers where its plausible that the benefit/cost ratio of policing is over 1.

Combining obvious fingerprinting with randomly selected discrete fingerprinting means that sooner or later anyone stripping out the digital fingerprinting will slip up and distributed a fingerprinted file. If the focus is on high volume, high profile bootleg publishers, then the volume means that that's likely to be sooner rather than later.
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belvadeer





PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:47 am Reply with quote
People who think they're entitled to free anything need to be smacked in the head several times.
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Sippin Coffee



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:18 pm Reply with quote
belvadeer wrote:
People who think they're entitled to free anything need to be smacked in the head several times.


Amen to that
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Ichigo77



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 389
Location: California
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:44 am Reply with quote
Sippin Coffee wrote:
belvadeer wrote:
People who think they're entitled to free anything need to be smacked in the head several times.


Amen to that


I second that.
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baadaku12345



Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:40 pm Reply with quote
Ichigo77 wrote:
Sippin Coffee wrote:
belvadeer wrote:
People who think they're entitled to free anything need to be smacked in the head several times.


Amen to that


I second that.


I agree as well. The amount of complaining these people do is insane. Things in this world have to be payed for, that's how life works.
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