Forum - View topicJapan should ban child porn manga/anime
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dannavy85
 Posts: 114 |
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I don't understand why some people are so against the efforts of some Japanese politicians to do what should have been done in Japan since the 1960's
End Government support of all child pornography...Manga, anime, video and books. The whole sick industry is a 10 million dollar a year enterprise. It's time to force Japan to put this industry to an end. |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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Because some people believe sincerely in principles of liberty of expression that cannot accept empowering government to pick and choose who gets to express what. Mere outrage is the author of many bad laws.
What government support is there? I've never heard of the Japanese government actively paying for the publication of child pornography. It might allow its publication, but that's just the absence of suppression.
I don't think that it is. Is the probably really that publications that sexualize children exist, or is it a problem with the consumers of those publications who create the demand for it? If the latter, then they are the problem to be addressed, not really their pornography. Actually, that is an interesting problem. I can't imagine that more than a mad thimbleful would choose to be a pedophile, given how severe the stigma is, but then if it's innate in them, just as accepted sexual preferences are, maybe the usual outrage and fury is a bad way to handle the situation. Last edited by Surrender Artist on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jaymie
Posts: 915 |
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Posting this on an Anime forum is like throwing a torch into a barrel of gasoline.
Though I'm not an advocate of the sexualization of children, it's debatable whether a 2D image can be considered to be child pornography. Those laws were made to protect children, but it's not like 2D images need protection, right? And 10 million dollars a year isn't really that large of an industry. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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einhorn303
 Posts: 1180 |
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Similar to Gandhi's statement that "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated," I believe that "The greatness of a state and its civil liberties can be judged by the way it treats child sexuality." Personally, I believe possession of child pornography should be completely legal in the US; by that I mean both drawings and actual photographs. Even if it's child rape, it makes no sense to treat possessing a recording of a crime as a crime itself. First of all, there is no other crime that works like that. Murder, rape of adults, even much worse crimes than child rape, like genocide, for example. Also, making it legal to possess images of crimes makes it much easier to recognize the victims and prevent actual crimes from happening. No one, ever, in any case, should be sent to jail for the simple act of looking at a picture. To suggest that looking at a picture is ludicrous totalitarianism. If OP wants to argue his fringe view, than I shall do the same. And to also quote Adolf Hitler: "The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation." - Mein Kampf |
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st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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I think it would be a more effective use of time and money for governments and law enforcement to go after people who produce child porn involving real children, rather than just lines on a page. I also think it's actually better that child porn or whatever you want to call it manga/anime etc exists, as it means that people who are into that sort of thing can get their fix without any real children having to be harmed. I'd guess there are probably a lot of people out there who encounter underage characters in adult manga, but who wouldn't dream of finding real life child porn on the internet.
My basic moral view of the world is "Do whatever you like, as long as it doesn't harm other people", so as long as the artist didn't use any real life child porn as reference when creating their work, I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I wouldn't personally enjoy it. I also believe in freedom of speech, so I don't think it's my/your/any government's business to tell Japan what is "obscene" or not, just because it doesn't fit with your narrow "morals." Like Surrender Artist said, the Japanese government as an entity doesn't actively promote adult manga, it just doesn't ban it. It's largely only the West that's getting its knickers in a twist about whether lines on a page that come together make a picture of a child involved in sexual acts is exploitative or not. Quotes from article linked by Past:
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I just want to say einhorn you are awesome. I admire your willingness to express what so many would consider a radical viewpoint. Even on an internet forum where anonymity reigns supreme, it's pretty bold.
While I disagree with your position concerning photography, I find myself pondering and am very supportive of the categorical distinction between photographs (real life subjects) and illustrations (fictional subjects). Generally I believe with illustrations, however they are produced, anything goes: If it can be drawn, imagined and put on a piece of paper or into a digital canvas, there's probably someone out there who will appreciate it. Furtheremore there is validity in giving artists and the people who view that art unlimited and omnipotent freedom over what is created and appreciated. Compromising that freedom has dire consequences wherever such oppression is allowed to fester and thrive. |
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superunature
Posts: 110 |
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loli? lolicons?
if people want it, they will make it. Freedom of expression, however, they are not allowed to create/make any images that closely resemble (looks identical to) a real child being abused. Honestly, although I do not support scenes representing having sex with children like figures (aka lolis) but I do not wish for them to place a ban on them as that would bring more problems then necessary, it will still be created, but with the power of the internet, and people's desire, it would still be distributed illegally. and btw, $10mil. a yr industry is nothing. |
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einhorn303
Posts: 1180 |
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As a frivolous aside, that would be 0.0135% of the video game industry in 2011 (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/05/report-game-industry-worth-74-billion-in-2011/) |
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Soundmonkey44
 Posts: 1243 |
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Japanese media has abused various sexual fetishes for quite some time now. Its nothing new, but the increassed abuse of various types of ecchi content is rather annoying.
I think the only thing we can do is hope that the various manga-ka & anime creators will stop abusing their freedom of expression, and stop turning so many modern anime & manga in to softcore porn. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I am curious about why you say "so many." I kind of suspect that you have gotten away from the subject of child pornography. What kind of content are you talking about? |
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jsc315
 Posts: 925 |
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Lets burn the books because we don't like what is on the pages.
Let burn records because they have messages not everyone agrees on. Let's burn the witch because we suspect them of being one. Let's just ban anything we disagree with and don't like. That will show those silly Japanese that we mean business. I'm just going to assume this is a troll bait since the OP never responded back. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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What the hell is wrong with people on the internet?
That's a [expletive] absurd equivocation. Calling child porn a mere "recording of a crime" is just wilfully burying your head in the sand to support your point. There's a massive difference between a person committing a crime and there happening to be a recording of it and someone committing a crime precisely so they can record it. CP falls into the later category. In the bulk of cases, they're creating it precisely so they can fill the demand for recordings of such crimes. If I have a recording of a murder it's not like I caused that murder to happen. When someone looks at real child porn though they're pretty directly creating that demand which leads people to create child porn in the first place. Calling it a mere recording of a crime is wrong. It's more analogous to dealing in stolen goods which obviously is illegal for similar reasons.
This is also a special kind of stupid. How exactly does it make it any easier to catch the people actually creating this stuff? I mean, if actually making the stuff is still a crime then the people making it will be just as underground. Of course, it's also going to give pretty much everyone who's distributing it and profiting off these crimes the ability to act with impunity. Unless you can actually track down the guys who are directly creating the stuff then you're SOL. Of course, since having child porn alone isn't a crime anymore you don't really even have any leverage to try and force those who have it to tell you how they got the stuff or who actually made it. Plus, even if you do find the guys you think actually made it, good luck actually convicting them. Suddenly it becomes super easy for pretty much everyone to just shrug and claim they didn't actually commit the crime. Good luck proving otherwise. Did you even think about any of this before you started spouting this stupidity? I mean, if you were just to say the first part, that you think on principle that it should be legal, then you'd at least have some credibility even if I think you're wrong. When you start spouting this crap about how it'll actually make it easier to catch the people hurting children then it seems like you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. |
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Soundmonkey44
Posts: 1243 |
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Whoops my bad...yeah I tend to ramble alot. I was just talking about the overuse of certain odd fetishes in modern anime (like Qwaser with the hole breat milk thing, and QB which gets fetishy at times as well.) But yeah as for the main topic, Loli itself isn't bad, that is to say a loli character doesnt nessecarilly ruin a series, but the sexual exploitation of lolita characters can be rather troublesome. But then again Im an old fuddy duddy and don't care much for fanservice in general...find it much more appropriate when used for comedy or used in moderation, not shoved down ones throat. But yeah lolicon ecchi & hentai is a pretty iffy thing. I mean, characters can have small busts without being or having the bodies of 12 year old girls Japan. But yeah, I do agree with the main poster that the manga & anime industry do need to regulate themselves abit better. |
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einhorn303
Posts: 1180 |
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That's why it'd still be illegal to sell it. If there's no market for it, there's no rational self-interest basis to create it. Dealing in stolen goods might be illegal, btw, but dealing in bootleg goods isn't. That might be a more fitting analogy, since it's deal in terms of copyable intellectual property than a physicality.
Authorities frequently ask help from the public in identifying the victims who appear in apprehended child porn. One can find [url=http://www.vancouversun.com/news/RCMP+seek+help+identify+more+victims+Surrey+child+porn+case/4798170/story.html ]random examples[/url] of this easily from Google. I don't see why it couldn't be crowd-sourced.
There are many possible legal solutions to this. For example, it could be illegal to withhold information about the sources of possessed CP. And this law could have a vague and wide reach to prevent people from evading it. There are much better solutions out there, it's just that there's no thought devoted to it since a world with legal CP possession seems so unlikely. Anyways, assume hypothetically that for every one person who creates child pornography there are are 1,000 people who watch it. I don't believe that 1,000 innocents should be punished to try to help catch one criminal. |
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