Forum - View topicNEWS: Funimation Sues 1,427 John Does Over Ip Man
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Nayu
Posts: 676 |
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Because it would cost MORE to fight the accusation than it would be to settle even if you knew you'd get off more. This isn't about winning to Funimation, its about squeezing these IP addresses for some capital. You pay us or Guido Stone here will break your kneecaps. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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I'm not sure if you're disputing my point or if you're just woefully misunderstanding what I'm talking about here. I'm not disputing that it's cheaper to settle than to fight it. What I am addressing however is FaytLein's claim that Funimation is suing these people for a mere hundred bucks a person. Obviously this is not the case. If that were the case it wouldn't even be a question of fight or settle. At such a low number your best option is just to lose. Don't bother fighting. Hell, don't even bother to show up to court and lose by default. That just means you'll pay the hundred bucks which is a fraction of the proposed thousand plus dollar settlement. No, obviously it is as you say, the entire point is to shake people down for settlement money by threatening them with a big scary lawsuit worth much more than the settlement. |
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FaytLein
 Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
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The fact that everyone is completely ignoring is the fact that Funi is not suing each individual person, they are suing everyone at once. Going that route, Funi can't collect 150 grand from each person since that is the grand total of a suit. If you and three friends file and win a lawsuit and all you asked for was 20 grand, that twenty grand will be split between the four of you, NOT get multiplied by four.
Funi asking for 1500 to settle is based on fines imposed on the government having to do with distributing pirated work which is 750 dollars. Funi was asking for twice that because they were treating it as a double feature; one instance for posessionand one for distribution. |
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Maximym Meyham!!
 Posts: 46 |
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I miss the old days of hand drawn anime too. But I like moe for its not crap series, and Touhou amongst my love of G Gundam, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Fist of the North Star, Ruroni Kenshin, Gunsmith Cats etc etc.. It's funny to see how back in the days of video games, moe wasn't that popular in Japan... for plenty of reasons I researched etc etc... |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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In that analogy there are multiple plaintiffs, and a single defendant. In this case there is one plaintiff (Funimation) and multiple defendants (the pirates). Your analogy is backwards.
Wait, what? It's not the government that's taking these people to court. It's Funimation. Why would government fines have anything to do with it and for that matter, why would Funimation be the one who collects? And if the person didn't choose to settle, what then? Are you suggesting they would pay this $1500 fine for some reason? If so, to who and why? And if not, that just brings us back to the original issue: If they're only on the hook for $100 then what possible motivation is there to settle for $1500. Also, do you have any basis for these claims whatsoever? Because every time I point out why what you're saying makes no sense you bounce back with some new and increasingly convoluted and illogical claim. Frankly man, I think you're just pulling stuff out of your ass at this point. |
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the wired knight
Posts: 17 |
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They are suing for $150k per person because the accusation relies on that each download/upload was an individual act that constitues infringement. Not all of them as one act.
Otherwise the settlement numbers don't make sense. Letters sent to does request close to $2k with a warning that if the offer is not accepted they risk a judgment of $150k. If you think about that logically they would never take the settlement as the judgment would e less if they were to pay it individually. It isn't a joint settlement because then they would have to accept it as a group rather than each receiving a letter. I've actually handled a case like this, I know how it plays out. |
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FaytLein
Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
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Nope. In both cases, there are only one plaintiff and one defendant. The number of people on either side is irrelevant. You can't sue a person and add a multiplier because the four people suing are acting as a single entity. You would have to file four separate lawsuits. And in this case, Funi isn't suing person A, then suing person B, then suing person C. They are trying to have A,B and C sued at once. Which means that if Funi won the case, the amount that they would win would be divided between the 1,427. If Funi filed 1,427 lawsuits, then and ONLY then would the amount have to be paid by each individual person.
Because when Funi is suing 1337 people in a single suit the defendants would be responsible for 100 something each. Single the judge said that wasn't right and they have to file against every single person, Funi could go to individuals and ask to settle out of court. The $1500 came from basing the settlement on the government's fees for this type of activity.
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-04-27/lawyer/some-one-piece-downloaders-settle-out-of-court This is where the whole porno thing and 1500 bucks comes into play. |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4447 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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They should be going after people that do illegal streaming of their anime licenses as well as the video sites that host them. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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That's not even a coherent sentence, let alone an answer to my question. If you acknowledge that people are only on the hook for $100 if Funimation sues them then that leaves us with the same problem I originally pointed out: According to you, Funimation is going to people and saying: Pay us a settlement of $1500 or else we'll sue you and you'll have to pay $100. That. Makes. No. Sense. |
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FaytLein
Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
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Because Funimation's lawsuit isn't asking for $150,000 from 1,427 individual people. In order to do that, Funi would have to file 1,427 lawsuits and ask for $150,000 dollars. But they aren't doing that. Funi is trying to sue all of the individual people as a single unit. Which means that the 1,427 would act as a unit to pay the amount the suit asks for. Now, the reason settlements were being done in the first place for the One Piece suit was that the judge shot down Funi's attempt to have the 1,337 sued as one entity. So Funi went after people on an individual basis, the cost went up since the 1,337 were no longer a single unit, which means that individual persons cost goes up. |
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the wired knight
Posts: 17 |
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And you're missing the point that:
1. You CAN sue like that (though they aren't in this case) and more importantly 2. That EACH ACT OF INFRINGEMENT is entitled to those damages. that means each actual download is a separate infringement. It's not 1400+ as the number of people times the statutory damages. It's 1400+ as the number of downloads times the statutory damages. They are alleging a civil conspiracy for which the does are jointly and severably liable for the total amount. You admittedly are correct on that they HAVE to file separately for each person because this ISN'T some form of civil conspiracy (something I stated a few pages back) since all the acts are seperate and unrelated outside of how the program works. For which they should file against 1400+ in seperate lawsuits each alleging the statutory damages. THey're trying to circumvent that and sue as a group allleging 1400 acts of infringement each of which are entitled to the statutory damages - which is improper joinder. I am honestly going to ask this. Have you ever actually handled one of these cases? Because I have. I have actually spoken to the attorneys in these cases and actually had to file and send paperwork for it to deal with the matter. I'm betting you have not. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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the wired knight pretty much summed it up. Yes, they tried to sue everyone together. That is because they assert that the people in question acted together in a sense in perpetrating these acts of infringement. However, that does not mean they are suing these 1300+ people for one single act of infringement. The lawsuit is still over 1300+ different acts of infringements (perpetrated by these 1300+ people). Hence, the defendants are on the hook for $150,000 in statutory damages for each act.
What this means is that it ends up cancelling out essentially. Funimation is suing for $150,000 * 1300+ acts of infringement. This total is then spread across 1300+ people as you said. Hence, the 1300+ cancels out at it still ends up being $150,000 per person. That's how it works. On top of that though, I'd also like to point out that your version of events all just begs the question: Why not threaten to sue individually in the first place? What possible advantage is there to pulling this stunt where you try and sue them all together? If you do the math, at $1500 each you only need 100 people to settle in order to make the same $150,000 you would by suing them together. There's 1300 - 1400 people so if even 8% settle you'll actually make more money. In fact, if most of em settle you could make as much as 2 Million dollars. Even if you factor in added legal fees, suing people seems like nothing but a big giant detriment under your assumptions because it caps your potential returns at a single $150,000 maximum. |
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FaytLein
Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
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I should have studied more! Oh well.
Maybe I was misled by the claim that since everyone was acting as a mass swarm they couldn't or weren't saying IP man was downloaded 1427 times but that these 1427 people were responsible for a single count of uploading and distributing. Oh well, learn some lose some! |
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BeanBandit
Posts: 303 Location: Canada |
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Good, I'm glad companies like Funimation are really starting to clamp down on these kinds of shenanigans. Piracy has become way too rampant and Funimation is well within their right to protect their product from what is basically outright theft. Sure acts like this do very little against piracy in the grand scheme of things but someone has to take a stand somewhere and frankly I'm glad Funimation is willing to take some sort of stand against pirates.
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... okay, maybe 50% of the reason. I miss the golden age... and Geneon... and CMP... and (the old) AD Vision but alas. It is what it is. 
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