With Lazarus coming up, Lucas and Coop take the opportunity to explore Shinichiro Watanabe's catalogue.
Disclaimer:The views and opinions expressed by the participants in this chatlog are not the views of Anime News Network. Spoiler Warning for discussion of the series ahead.
Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, and Space Dandy are available to stream on Crunchyroll. Live-action Cowboy Bebop and Carol & Tuesday are available to stream on Netflix. Macross Plus is available to stream on Hulu, and Lazarus will be available on Toonami. Kids on the Slope isn't currently streaming anywhere.
Lucas
Coop, we were treated to the English dub trailer for Shinichiro Watanabe's latest joint, Lazarus, last week, and it looks slick as hell! I was prepared to crown it with the title of "The Slickest Anime I've Ever Seen," but then I realized that can be said for pretty much every entry in Watanabe's filmography!
So, as we're sure to have plenty of conversations about Lazarus once it's live, I figured this TWIA would be a great chance to chat about Watanabe's legendary career and impact before we're treated to his latest release next month.
Coop
It's safe to say that Watanabe has come a long way since starting his anime career as a production manager on 1985's Blue Comet SPT Layzner. After almost a decade of working his way up the ranks, Watanabe made a splash with his first directorial effort— 1994's Macross Plus.
Not to mention that this little Super Dimensional follow-up kicked off a decades-long collaboration between the director and regular collaborators Keiko Nobumoto and Yoko Kanno.
Having recently revisited the series for review, I was struck by how Macross Plus set a perfect tone for the rest of Watanabe's career. Plus demonstrates the director's tremendous talent for balancing granular sci-fi elements with a thrilling interpersonal drama. He knows that even though he might be playing in a cool sandbox, it doesn't matter if his characters aren't compelling.
That is Watanabe's secret sauce...along with the killer tunes that punctuate his work (even if those tunes aren't always from Yoko Kanno).
Wait a minute, Coop, you're telling me that Watanabe made an anime BEFORE Cowboy Bebop!?? I'm sure that a particular genre of casual anime fan is going to be shocked to learn this!
While most flavors of Macross remain a blind spot for me, I know it's storied enough to make it one hell of a franchise for Watanabe to cut his directorial teeth on. And I see what you mean about playing in the same sandbox. As far as I can tell, Bebop is like 80% of what Macross has going on, except that it just swapped out the older series' campier elements for cool noir vibes!
Macross Plus is an absolute must-watch for any Cowboy Bebop enjoyer. It's the initial jam session brought this team of legendary creatives together and made them think, "What if we did more of this together?" Additionally, it's worth pointing out that Shoji Kawamori allegedly played a big role in helping Watanabe and Co. get Bebop off the ground.
But you brought up an excellent point there, Lucas. Let's get this out of the way right now: Cowboy Bebop is a stone-cold classic. I know it, you know it, your grandma knows it, the guy who tries to sell bootleg merch at the mall knows it, and it goes on from there. However, I feel that Bebop's outsized reputation in North America has unfortunately pigeonholed Watanabe to a degree. Well, at least whenever he has a new project developed for North American audiences, that is.
We can agree that Shinichiro Watanabe's talents can be seen in more than a single show he directed almost thirty years ago.
Unfortunately, while I think Grandma Lynda dipped out of anime after wrapping on The Record of the Lodoss War, your point still stands! Cowboy Bebop is nothing short of foundational to anime as the medium and the community built up around it. Unfortunately, a bunch of folks who don't have great media literacy have reduced it to being "the good anime," and that's super frustrating.
In Bebop, we see a more crystalized version of what would become hallmarks of Watanabe's works. Bebop has a unique blend of genres, directly confronts social and political issues in ways big and small, and, of course, has a kick-ass soundtrack.
But, to your point, we don't need to rizz up Bebop even more than it already is, and I'd love to mosey on over to Watanabe's other incredible works, Samurai Champloo!
Most of my familiarity comes from Samurai Champloo's PS2 outing, Sidetracked, and a few random Adult Swim airings in the early aughts. However, it's been one of those series on my radar for a long while.
However, my interest shot up after I had a wonderful in-person chat with Nujabes collaborator Substantial at Otakon last year. The dude is super cool and incredibly nice. But back to Champloo itself, a collision of hip-hop and samurai stories is right up my alley. Though I'd have to say, I might've been pushed away from the series at a younger age due to the sheer amount of "THIS IS FROM THE BEBOP GUY!" I heard back then.
Lmao, I promise Samurai Champloo is more than deserving of a spot on your backlog. However, I'm biased, as I had the optimal viewing experience for Samurai Champloo, watching all day while at a dead-end job during my first college winter break.
While decidedly less sci-fi than most of Watanabe's offerings, the hip-hop-infused take on feudal Japan is sick as hell, and I struggle to think of a better-choreographed anime. It's a little too weird to ever reach the mainstream popularity of Bebop, but that's what makes it my favorite between the two!
There's no better way to watch anime than that.
Just a year before Champloo, Watanabe contributed two vignettes—A Detective Story and Kid's Story—to the animated anthology film, The Animatrix. As a kid who randomly caught the film on TNT, I remember being blown away by the tense, sketchy, mad dash to freedom presented in Kid's Story. To my knowledge, the only other Watanabe work that comes close to this visual style is perhaps the wilder moments of a certain dandy series.
I watched these before the fourth movie came out and thought they seemed familiar. I couldn't quite put my finger on why, but now it's clear that they scream Watanabe!
Thank you for teeing me up to talk about Space Dandy, which I'll argue is Watanabe's most technically impressive work to date! It's also in the middle of a renaissance, if my BlueSky feed is anything to go by. Everyone here should watch it as soon as they finish reading this column!
I might be one of those watchers too! When Space Dandy (or Spance Daddy if you're one of the cool kids) hit Toonami in 2014, I was knee-deep in my sophomore year of college without a TV in sight. However, I caught the first episode during the holiday break and was thrilled by how irreverent and deeply unserious the series' setup is. You showed me a Terminator 2 thumbs up in the first episode, and you got me. Well, if I've got cable, that is.
On the topic of cable, you can't talk Space Dandy without pointing out its status as one of the first North American simulcasts ever to be televised. It isn't the first anime with that distinction (Kurokami did that long before our Dandy Guy did), but it sure made a splash.
And for good reason! Even more than a decade after its release, I struggle to think of an anime as vibrant as Space Dandy! Its character designs are off the wall, its set up is so open that it rapidly becomes a vehicle to lampoon popular television tropes, and it never stops being hilarious!
Space Dandy was just a little too off-beat for audiences to appreciate back in 2014. But as people have only gotten weirder in their maturity, this dandy odyssey is finally getting the recognition it's due!
Speaking honestly, I think Bebop's long shadow was probably a factor in that initially cool reception. Especially since Dandy was aired on the same block that had been rerunning Bebop episodes for a decade by that point. There's something of a "more Cowboy Bebop" expectation built in, for better or worse. It all reminds me of the conversation Chris and I had a while back surrounding the FLCL sequels. It's another case of some viewers (and financiers) chasing that nostalgic dragon instead of taking a wider look at the creative world around them.
It's one of the many reasons we ended up with this little show...
Man, what a bummer the live-action Cowboy Bebop show turned out to be, or maybe was always destined to be. Off the cuff and inspired by your screencaps, a feature of the original series is how meticulous the show's world feels. Communities feel informed by the backgrounds of the people who migrated to a given area and the unique challenges a given planet presents. By comparison, the live-action show feels like it happens in a version of the real world where everyone wears vaporware-inspired outfits.
Second, the dialogue and plot in the live-action series feel very much inspired by the works of Joss Whedon, which is about the most tonally dissonant element anyone could add to a Bebop project!
In sharp contrast, Carol & Tuesday goes a long way to highlight its incredibly diverse cast of characters and how the socioeconomics of Mars affect their lives.
The series touches upon these issues in a down-to-earth manner, be it class disparities, the encroachment of generative AI, or discrimination. As I mentioned earlier, it's what makes Watanabe's work sing. He and his team can cut through the sci-fi elements and get to the heart of issues people face every day. That approach is infinitely more relatable than fixating on elements that don't push the characters forward as people. Carol & Tuesday breaking into a concert hall to jam together hits me harder than a long exposition about super-technology X or Y.
Carol & Tuesday is an utter delight! And, while I'm excited for Watanabe to get back to his more action-focused roots in Lazarus, it's also such a treat to see him more directly explore his passion for music in this anime, and Kids on the Slope, an adaptation of Yuki Kodama's manga. Carol & Tuesday also gave us this delightful little earworm, and still, hardly a week goes by where it doesn't pop into my head! (Content warning for adult language incoming, btw)
Outside of Carol & Tuesday, Watanabe has also contributed to a couple of less prominent projects, including Blade Runner: Black Lotus and Blade Runner Black Out 2022. I'll be honest: while it is cool that Watanabe got to expand a franchise that so clearly influences his sci-fi proclivities, I don't think these are the best examples of his unique talents.
I'd be inclined to agree. It's nice to see him stretch his feet in other genres like the bone-chilling Terror in Resonance, but whenever he touches anything north of sci-fi, it feels as if he's still "carrying that weight."
This brings us to Lazarus. The series has a great sci-fi action setup, with the titular unit's mad dash to find Dr. Skinner within 30 days lest humanity meet its end. After the trailer gives audiences the rub, it cuts in with the jazzy rock and the Jeet Kune Do. The series looks great, don't get me wrong, but now I'm feeling "that weight."
Expectations are high going into Lazarus. I'm reading it as more of a coming-home moment for Watanabe. He's proven he can make an impressive anime in pretty much any setting and genre, and now he's returning to the Bebop style that made him a household name for anime fans of all stripes. It's exciting!
I'm looking forward to checking it out, but I hope Lazarus can stand on its own two feet—divorced of any Bebopities. Who knows, maybe Watanabe said, "I'm doing it myself," after seeing how the Netflix show turned out.
I'd be more on board with that line of thinking rather than, "I was told to direct another show like this one I made 30 years ago." In reality, it could be a little bit of column A and column B; we'll have to see.
Vicious is my favorite part of Netbop by the way...
I didn't realize I was chatting with a live-action Viscious defender! I'm unsure if I agree, but I'd love to hear your argument for why he's your favorite part of the show!
He's not good at all, but he is wildly entertaining.
A truly fascinatingly unhinged performance.
Makes for a great stockpile of reaction images, too.
And just like that, you've given the live-action Bebop the highest praise it's ever seen! Fingers crossed, Lazarus will also clear such noteworthy heights.
Welcome to the ouch, indeed.
Regardless of how Lazarus will or won't turn out, it's safe to say that Watanabe and his collaborators have more than a few amazing series for new viewers to discover!
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