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Forum - View topicREVIEW: Honey and Clover DVD Box Set 2
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Nebs
 Posts: 386 Location: University of Illinois |
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I loved the final arc in season 1. Having a character go through a transformation has become really cliche in anime, but Takemoto's development felt so natural & so realistic that it really brought a great closure to the series. His whole journey in the last quarter of the story was just excellent. That being said, I still haven't gotten around to watching season 2 yet. When Viz starts releasing that I'll finally get my chance.
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3979 Location: New York state. |
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pachy_boy
Posts: 1341 |
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My individual thoughts:
-I won’t comment on Hagu again, since I understand both sides of the argument which have been stated over and over again. -Ayumi continually clings onto her unconditional feelings for Takumi, practically letting herself torture herself rather than even try to move on. Takumi in turn had turned her down, breaking her heart while knowing about her feelings, refusing to change his unconditional feelings for Rika. Yet, he feels he has the right to keep other guys he feels uncomfortable about to make any kind of approach to Ayumi. Between the two characters, I really don’t know which one grated on my nerves more. Even so, while in Takumi’s mind he doesn’t believe he’s being selfish with Ayumi, I couldn’t help but feel a really smug satisfaction when Ayumi punched him, saying something like “you have no right controlling my life.” In fact, I flat-out cheered during that scene. The one scene that actually made me stop reading the manga for good was when Takumi’s coworkers talk to him about his feelings for Rika, and he comments that he feels so out of control that he could just ‘assault’ her. Of course, with the Anime subtitles, they translate using the word ‘attack’ instead, but it still means the same thing. What bugs me is that it’s supposed to be funny, and yet after all his stalking, there’s nothing funny whatsoever about contemplating sexual assault. And it really doesn’t help matters when he forces himself into Rika’s apartment and practically leaves her no choice whatsoever but to hire him into her business. I guess I answered my own question whether he or Ayumi irritate me more. -Mario and Luigi were just very wrong and disgusting characters to me. Sure there may be some Yaoi fans that it was pandering to, but it really bothered me to no end that they’re brothers and yet fawn over each other in that stereotypically effeminate way and happened to be named after a couple old favorite video game characters, and if that was an inside-joke meant for laughs it actually just made me sad. Will there be some forumites who would be quick to point out to me that these two characters also remind them of their college experience? -Now the good points: Shinobu was actually funny this time around, making me laugh a couple times out loud. I much prefer the opening theme animation for this, as the stop-motion foods from before just freaked me out. I liked the whole story arc of Yuta going on a bicycling trip to discover himself, it almost made the series really worth watching. But what really made the show for me was the dog. His thoughts are so simple and honest, probably reflecting on how dogs actually think, and more often than not were far more amusing and funny than most of the rest of the series’ humor. These are just my opinions that not everyone has to agree with. If ANN streams the next series, I’ll still watch it just for the heck of it. |
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maaya
Posts: 976 |
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very well summed up. So simple, yet I could never think of such a perfectly fitting way to describe H&C. And not even exaggerating ^^ |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4634 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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I just finished this on Hulu this week and haven't read the other talkbacks but from pachy_boy's comments I guess my critiques aren't so unique and wish the review better acknowledged this and am not even sure what "Differentially rewards the patient" means. I was patient with this series but didn't feel I was completely rewarded,
Hagu is sweet but such an empty china doll of a character, less developed than a so-called moe-girl (this coming a fan of so-called moe characters). While I understand the point is that these people do not know what they want, it still seems very frustratingly aimless. Especially with the people that leave the ones they love for extended periods but don't come back unchanged and leave the situation as it was before except for spoiler[the commendable Takemoto.] So while I enjoy the easy humor and tender moments, I do wish it showed a bit more forward motion. |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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So having her be someone that just stayed inside all day at her grandmother's place just drawing whatever she sees, and watching her progress (another word for develop) socially from the shy and quiet girl of the first few episodes, to someone who could enjoy being around Morita, Takemoto, Mayama, Ayu, etc. is not considered development for you? And, while time moving forward is a prominent motif, the circular motion representing the cyclical nature of these characters is also one. Ayu knows that she should just carry on and forget about Mayama, but she just can't.. This isn't a strange occurrence in high schools and universities, where one character just keeps pining for another. While it may not be the most fun to watch, it represents something that happens quite often in life, and I think that's what Honey & Clover was aiming for, displaying (with obvious exaggerations at times for comedy) college life in all its conflicts and triumphs. The reason this series becomes so nostalgic is because it does this part so dang well. I liked what Carlo Santos said regarding Ayu:
Good to see Carl was finally struck by the magic of Honey & Clover, even if it did take until the 2nd half. |
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diligent sesame
 Posts: 57 |
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I think what he means is that the series provides a different reward for each person. Some people feel the magic, some people don't, and so on. |
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter Exempt from Grammar Rules Posts: 4634 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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No, she's just a pitable character, she has no actual personality. The dogs have more personality, needs and desires than Hagu. Okay, that's mean. When she first befriended Ayu, that was a great sequence, you could see her wanting something and actually clumsily pursuing a relationshiryp by herself. Truly she had little choice but be friends with Morita, Takemoto and Mayama, they were Shuu's friends and therefore she got to know them. Hagu reminds me of Tsubasa in Kare Kano, but not the fully realized character that loves Kazuma for a concrete reason, but the shallow, little girl comedic foil that eats candy and is totally useless at any point in that the show that isn't focused on her. Even when Hagu's charmed by spoiler[Mayama's broach I don't really understand why she's so impressed by that but apparently unimpressed by the doll furniture Takemoto makes] I rarely understand her motivations and feelings. She just acts. tell me, Is Hagu more lazy or motivated? Is she more neat or messy? Is she basically a silly person or a serious person? These are some some basic personality features I think I should know pretty soon after being introduced to a character in a story. Maybe her charcter finally gets expanded in the second series but that is that and this is this. By the end of 24 episodes and what happens in it I feel like I should have some idea of how a main character should react to it, but I don't Maybe she's supposed to be an enigma, I think Rika is supposed to be an enigmatic figure we're not supposed to fully understand but she's just a supporting character. Is Hagu a supporting character? |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2317 Location: Online Terminal |
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Then the "doll" could arguably be the most human of the cast. If there's one thing that's consistent among people, it's that they aren't consistent. Feel free to not like the character--I personally think that Takemoto would be better served chasing some other fish--but there's definitely some humanity in there, and don't tell me you don't have a friend who lusts over someone who you think is no good. This really is an anime about college. |
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atunderdogk
 Posts: 74 |
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This review was written so well. I tried H&C maybe a year ago and couldn't get past the first few episodes. I went back after reading a review for it that praised it highly this past fall, and I completely fell in love with it. This review reminded me the way I felt when I watched it and I long to watch it again. I love H&C so much.
Thank you for describing such an indescribable show so well. Hats off to you. As much as I love this show, I don't believe I couldn't have done it as much justice as you have. Everyone should experience this show. Plain and simple. |
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Have you seen Season 2 yet? Hagu grows the most / is the most developed there. I'm so glad that they are releasing it! Oh ... and the fact that you can't peg her as "a serious or silly person" etc. etc. just goes to show how realistic this show is ... people aren't just one type of personality/trait - humans are multi-faceted, and you often CAN'T understand all their motivations/thoughts/feelings. |
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter Exempt from Grammar Rules Posts: 4634 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Okay, she may feature a wide array of traits, sometimes silly, sometimes serious, neat/messy, lazy/motivated. I'm not saying you have to be one or the other all the time, but you should have an opinion, right? You should have an impression? Let's not confuse vagueness with complexity. Why do her friends like her? As far as I can tell everyone mainly like her for only two reasons. 1. She is cute (two instances of love at first sight) 2. They want to protect her. What else do people like about her? Is she generous? IS she complimentary to others?(again, her first meeting with Ayu hint momentarily at these but don't really show much elsewhere) IS she selfless? Does she joke around? Plus, we get to see everyone else's faults in the series, their bad personality traits. If Hagu is such a complex realistic character, what are her character flaws? What is it that people don't like about her? Everyone projects some negative trait people don't like. What is Hagu's? She's weak, she's scared, she's oblivious, these scratch the surface of possible faults- maybe low self esteem issues. Is she petty? Greedy? Resentful? Proud? Jealous? People who don't know her resent her talent and even her friends envy it, but that's their fault, what would be a valid reason not to like her? Why do YOU like or not like her? I can answer these questions about any of rest of the main cast and I bet you can too. But not Hagu. I don't need a psychological profile but if she is such a realistic character, if you feel like this is a person you met and spent time with her (in the case of the cast-four years), tell me what you think of her? I have actually seen H&C2 and with the help of that series I could answer that question a little better. But I couldn't after just this first series. The most I could say after these episodes is that she's shy, has low self esteem and wants to please others (maybe on that last one). It's thin. |
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Megiddo
Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Takemoto's "love at first sight" is obvious, but what is the second instance? Surely you're not referring to Morita's haste to get her a big leaf so he can take pictures of her due to her looking like that one Japanese mythical creature whose name I cannot recall. |
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter Exempt from Grammar Rules Posts: 4634 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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Sure, that is one heck of an initial reaction, I love it. I didn't realize it immediately, but he's like a kid who picks on the girl he likes. He can contain it at times but he keeps doing it. spoiler[What happens when he kisses her? He wraps her head up with a scarf and runs away.] He acts hilariously immature, it's a big part of his charm. H&C2 spoiler: spoiler[Like father like son.  ]
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Joe Mello
Posts: 2317 Location: Online Terminal |
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So call her "mysterious," which has sort of been her hook from the beginning.
She's sheltered and childish (literally and figuratively), who also happens to be obscenely talented. If she were ever to be more self-reliant, the sky's the limit. If The Newlywed Game can teach us anything, it's that you never truly know someone, and I think that's your hang-up with Hagu. Since you're unable to get a good read on her, you've determined that there's nothing there to read. I'd be interested in your opinion about Kure-nai's Murasaki, but that may be an apples and oranges debate. |
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