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Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Net Etiquette
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Ai no Kareshi
 Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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One thing I hate about those trolls that "disagree with everything you say" is that they make it harder for those of us who are interested in actual debate to have a proper conversation. I feel that, because of their reputation, I am often misundestood and written off as a troll myself whenever I raise an argument. I have had many insightful – and friendly – debates, but sadly, these are rare. After all, shouting troll the moment someone challenges you doesn't exactly promote communication.
Wow. I must say that in an article discussing etiquette, this struck me as a disgusting double standard. All people have feelings, not just the "weak".
This may be true, but never having been to a convention of any sort myself, I feel compelled to point out that this same fangirl behaviour can be quite annoying online as well. |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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I was about to say the same thing. Respect goes for everyone - it shouldn't be laid aside just for those 'in power', as much as that phrase even applies to the example given in the article. |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3013 |
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Yah, that thing seemed weird sounding to me. Either it got phrased oddly, or I just don't understand what Casey was thinking. I mean, when talking about public figures, I understand how satire (which can often be pretty harsh) can be used to either make a point, or vent some steam at a figure that you are frustrated with. But there's a difference between satire and "vulger insults." (Which some don't seem to realize.) I believe vulger insults are usually poor etiquette regardless of who they are directed at. |
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R0RA
Posts: 1 |
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hmm.. couple of things
as to the argument about the strong picking on the weak.. i don't think this has anything what so ever to do with who you are in real life.. that doesn't really give you more power online (unless it's well known who you are in real life i suppose) and I'm not sure i agree with it being okay for the weak to attack the strong but not same-to-same or higher-to-lower... although i understand where it comes from.. irc I just /ignore people if i don't care for them.. and it generally isn't so bad.. (for me at least..) i think on forums things could get a lot better with some board software features that (as far as i know) haven't been done yet. 1. ignoring users based on ip ranges (removing people using known proxies as an option also) 2. user tagging for inappropriate - sure it wouldn't stop people from posting it.. but at least maybe not everyone would have to view it if you could user set if x number of people tag this as inappropriate second has been done in form of rated comments but i'm thinking more you could set it per person (how many people have said that the user crosses the line not any particular comment.. and sure a lot of people wouldn't like that.. but it would be good to have as an option.. people who are easily offended could ignore people known to offend.. i think the worst thing to do with people making problems on the internet is talk to them at all... almost always it encourages them (in my experience) |
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Big Hed
 Posts: 1607 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
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But such an exception would itself be a disservice to the so-called "weak". If you give the majority of people the right to insult the elite, it implies that the "weak" require an augmentation of speech as a substitute for equality. Having said that, if I was in a position of substantial power, I probably wouldn't care what Joe Anybody off the street had to say about my mother, anyway. As you said Casey, that comes part in parcel with receiving the soap box. |
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_Earthwyrm_
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It might imply that, but I don't think that that is part of the intent of the comment. People who aren't in positions of power have a reduced platform from which to speak in comparison to those who are in positions of power. Part of having a reduced platform from which to speak is a much reduced ability to defend oneself, or to have your words taken as worth as much as those with a higher platform. To take an extreme example, if I were to say that the Prime Minister was homophobic, he'd be able to refute that (and most people wouldn't take me seriously, unless I knew him personally). If he were to say the same about me (whether he personally knew me or not), people would likely take him seriously and I'd be quite unable to refute the notion as publicly as he could. Not to mention that if you have power over somebody, it's improper to voice any bias against them - decisions that they make have little to no effect upon you, so speaking bad about them is a different matter than if they were to speak badly of you. When someone without power speaks badly of someone who has power over them, it's likely due to the frustration that being powerless brings - who could help but vent at the person responsible for putting you in a bad position, when you have no means of changing the situation yourself? Plus, it's funny. Heheh. Bush == Chimp. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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The example about mocking people in positions of power aside -- which is a monster all its own -- I think we can all agree there are certain members of this very forum who need an etiquette adjustment, stat.
 Seriously, they could learn a thing or two from reading the comments in that article. I've seen way too many personal attacks around here as of late.
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Fabe
 Posts: 219 |
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That could work but it could also back fire with people using it to mark post by users they don't like as inappropriate. Working with other people they could trash a persons rep pretty fast. |
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Who Is This Guy!?
Posts: 183 |
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Meh, I think I prefer trolls and douchebags over two-faced, nice-guy yuppies.
not-so-nice-people are much more honest to themselves. They don't put up a facade...they just do what comes naturally to them. Now, a lot of people may hate that...but I don't. I admire the sincerity. |
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Ai no Kareshi
Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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Are you suggesting that everyone who's nice to each other is, in fact, being insincere? Because I beg to differ. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2654 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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I think that a lot of the way people respond on the Internet also has to do with what a person's handle is. For example, someone named "DBZRuleZ" is perhaps less likely to get treated seriously than someone called, say, "Jon." I haven't seen it so much in this forum, but a lot of the time posters will react negatively to someone with a name that they perceive as childish or just generally lame.
(On a slightly more personal note, I almost didn't use "Princess Irene" simply because I thought people wouldn't get it - it's the name of the heroine from George MacDonald's 1873 novel The Princess and the Goblin - and would think I was being cutesy or something. Then I got over it.  )
I think a lot of Net rudeness also stems from the fact that different people live in different places where different things are the norm. Last week I was accused of making things up when I said that where I live, middle aged men get their jollies from looking at LuvLuv titles in the bookstore. To someone in a more urban area, yeah, that could sound like BS. But it fails to take into consideration that in a rural area in the back of beyond, that might be what there is for adult manga. I've seen that on this forum with other cases concerning laws in other parts of the world. Internet culture may be global, but local culture is still place-specific, and that can fuel a lot of misunderstandings which can translate into rudeness. |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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I think another issue is that people on the internet often forget that emotion can be easily misinterpreted in print form. What may sound in your head as clear sarcasm, when typed out and submitted to an online forum could be misconstrued very easily. And both sides need to take that into consideration. The person making the comment needs to understand that maybe he or she did not make himself or herself clear, and the person reading the comment needs to understand that perhaps he or she is misinterpreting its intent and/or meaning. The general lack of adherence to grammar rules on the internet doesn't help, either (the written rules of our language are designed to make our intentions and meanings free from misinterpretation through punctuation, spelling and form conventions).
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Big Hed
Posts: 1607 Location: Melbourne, Australia |
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Certainly. I wasn't implying that the masses shouldn't speak badly about the elite out of some concern for untoward influence on the latter group, but rather out of common decency. Although as you said, people are bound to vent anyway.
Outright douchebags, yeah, trolls -- since they are, by definition, liars -- no. But ideally, people should learn not to be asshats to begin with, anyway. As they said in the discussion, you'd think people would default to being decent rather than mean. |
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Cait
Posts: 503 |
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Well, maybe something more in line with Amazon's new reviewer ranking system. The new system has what are called "fans" and once you vote on a particular reviewer's reviews more than a certain number of times, your votes on that reviewers reviews become invalid (as in, they won't be counted for or against that reviewer's rank anymore). |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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What gets me is when people get so defensive when a person derides an idea or concept or impersonal issue. You know, they act like THEY were being attacked instead of someone slamming their favorite anime or something else they have a preference for or whatever. Unless they have a personal investment in or part of the original idea, theme, or work, they have no reason to be offended.
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