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Forum - View topicNEWS: SaGa Frontier 2 Remastered Game Announced for Same-Day Release on Switch, PS5/4, PC, Mobile
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2787 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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At this point there are really only two other things left for the SaGa Series, if we go off of the pattern we've seen the past few years: A full-on remake of Romancing SaGa 3 (to go with the RS1 remake's remaster & the recent RS2 remake) & a remaster of Unlimited SaGa. I guess there could also be something in the future regarding the social game Emperors SaGa & the browser game Imperial SaGa, but those (alongside Romancing SaGa Re;univerSe) apparently aren't considered "mainline" entries in SaGa.
Personally, I'm really looking forward to (what now seems to be all but guaranteed) a remaster for Unlimited SaGa, because that game has been wildly misjudged for the past 20+ years due to its heavy tabletop RPG influence, something that other games have since also taken heavy influence from to much better acclaim. Yeah, it could definitely use some improvements, but I really do think that Unlimited SaGa would be much better received today than it was back in the early 00s. |
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Gem-Bug
 Posts: 1373 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada |
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This is one of my favorite RPGs and has an excellent soundtrack that I've been listening to for 25 years now. This was a nice surprise today. I'm not totally sold on additional storyline material being added, but what looks to be extra post-game modes is cool. The redone text and menus look a little generic, unfortunately.
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6552 |
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With the SaGa games still being rather niche why keep the even more niche battle system that no one liked in the original game? |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2787 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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Because it wouldn't be Unlimited SaGa without the Reel System. Also, saying that "no one" like it is absurd, because there are people who do enjoy US (like me) & really enjoy the Reel System. The problem is that, like the game itself, it was wildly misunderstood by most people who didn't actually bother to give it a proper go. For example, the common complaint was that it was "too random", but that complaint is 99% incorrect because in battle the Reel System uses literal reels, i.e. after a full rotation they start over from where they started. Since the game doesn't rush you at all when it comes to using the reels that means that you can learn the patterns that the reels give you as you accumulate skills & figure out the timing in order to consistently get what you wanted from it, like I was able to do back when I played the game. Sure, when doing combos it got a bit trickier due to you having to juggle multiple reels at once, but even then it wasn't hard to notice when reels matched up well, so you'd learn to time your button press accordingly for the best combination of skills. In fact, the only bit of "randomness" in the Reel System (i.e. the 1% I alluded to above) is from something that literally no review at the time seemed to notice: The skill reel used for non-battle skills. While that reel still has a set pattern that repeats the game does in fact randomize how many slots it'll stop after you press a button (between 0 & 4), but that was solely so that you couldn't abuse skills like Quick Fix regularly by relying solely on good timing, i.e. it was for balancing purposes. But, no, the Reel System was made a scapegoat for people to make vapid & misguided complaints towards, because it was so radically different from what was considered the standard. The same was true for the menu-based towns (because people wanted to walk about them), the board game style dungeon traversal (because people were used to walking through them & getting into random encounters), & the generally more open-ended storytelling split across seven different campaigns (because people thought that all JRPGs followed the same basic storytelling framework). |
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MFrontier
Posts: 15693 |
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Love me a good classic JRPG remaster!
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 511 |
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SaGa Frontier 2 is a fantastic RPG. It has a really unique story, which alternates between two legacies (the exiled prince Gustave and the lowly adventurer/archaeologist Wil Knights) and follows the two through almost 100 years, a beautiful art direction, and regularly switches between two different battle systems (normal turn-based and a unique "duel" system where one monster and one party member fight as representatives).
It's also a game I have a weird history with. It was one of the first SaGa games I played, and I ended up over-relying on the duel system and developing some bad habits (only developing one or two party members, relying too heavily on LP healing instead of using magic, etc.) so the last boss destroyed me. I ended up shelving the game and only picked it up again to show some friends how impossible the final boss was...and then beat it on my first try. Man, if I didn't have so many RPGs to play, I would be starting it again tomorrow. Hope the next announcement is Romancing SaGa 3 Remake! SaGa fans are eating well right now! |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6552 |
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The fact that as far I’ve heard it was only in this one game would seem to suggest the developers realized few if anyone liked it opted never to include it in any game afterwards.
Here’s the thing while slot & casino reels do have a well documented history in video games that’s usually for minigames. Asking players especially those used to traditional RPG combat. To get acclimated to using such a thing that forms the backbone of an game’s entire combat system along with it’s exploration system is a hell of ask,
While people would probably be fine with the seven different characters aspects I don’t know if all the other aspects would still be accepted even in the modern era. I recall one of the biggest criticisms of Final Fantasy 13 back in the day was how linear exploration was. So that would probably not be looked back too fondly and yeah as someone whose dumped a bunch of time into Saga Scarlet Grace menu based towns are rather boring. And given the current discourse amongst RPG players with it comes to turn based battle systems vs action based combat. Unlimited SaGa’s combat system would stand out probably even worse than it did in 2002. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2787 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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OK, let's tear this down...
This is a completely vapid counter-argument, because there have been plenty of RPGs which had their own mechanics that were then not utilized in later entries. That doesn't inherently mean that the mechanic was bad, but simply that the development team decided to try something else out. By this logic, Final Fantasy XII's Gambit system is terrible because no other FF game has used it. Or how about FFVII's free-form Materia system? FFVIII's Junction system? How about Breath of Fire II's dragon jewels, which was replaced in BOFIV with a simple menu? Not every game has to play like the previous or future ones. Sometimes a game is its own unique thing and is still really good.
The Reel System was implemented because Kawazu wanted US to feel more like a tabletop RPG, but didn't want things to literally be up to nothing more than luck & chance by relying on something like dice rolls. Reels, on the other hand, have repeating patterns that can be taken advantage of so that players can still achieve consistent results. Also, you're pretty much trying to argue that "games shouldn't challenge players in new ways, because they're used to doing things in a specific way", which is kind of ridiculous & would lead to stagnant game design (which, to be fair, some people could make somewhat fair arguments has already happened in some series). Akitoshi Kawazu has always been about challenging players' expectations. It's pretty much been his thing since the first Final Fantasy, which he helped design. He's never been content with simply delivering something that players are "used to". Finally, the difference between US' reels & those on slot machines is that US lets you see numerous slots ahead of where your cursor is, thereby allowing you to prepare & notice the patterns easily, unlike slot machines that purposefully cover everything except for only 1 to three spots at a time in order to make it harder for the person to play them. You're just proving that you're simply copying other people's opinions, instead of looking up the game for yourself.
I've seen plenty of people actually look back at FFXIII's linearity in retrospect & now consider it a good thing, especially when compared to the deluge of open-world RPGs that are often content with creating environments with little to no real layout to them, outside of specific areas. Yeah, FFXIII's linearity was a shock, but it's now something that has been looked as aging better than most expected. Sometimes you just want to experience a story and FFXIII does just that, in retrospect, outside of the late game stuff where you can explore somewhat.
OK, fine, you don't like menu-based towns. But others are fine with it & there have been numerous other RPGs in the 20+ years since US that have done the same thing. Also, I don't see why you're bringing up action-based combat, since US is clearly turn-based. If someone's into more action-based combat then they shouldn't play Unlmiited SaGa, simple as that. Don't go into a game expecting it to be the complete opposite of what you think it should be. In fact, in some ways US' combat system was an early precursor to the combat system seen in both Scarlet Grace & Emerald Beyond, which have both been more or less unanimously praised as some of the best turn-based combat seen in RPG history, namely in how you can pick the order of who attacks in what order on any turn. All US is really missing is the timeline showing where each character would fit, instead relying on the player needing to figure it out through trial & error, which (again) would fit with Kawazu's focus on making US more of a "hardcore" experience that harkens toward TTRPGs than traditional video game RPGs. Again, I'm not saying that Unlimited SaGa is one of the greatest RPGs ever made, and I already stated that a remaster could definitely fine tune & tweak certain aspects of it. However, it is a game that was wildly misunderstood by many people back in the day because it was so wildly different from almost anything else at the time, but in the 20+ years since its release other RPGs have done very similar things. Therefore, I think it would be more well received now than back in the 00s. Not "this is game of the year material" reception, but definitely at least some "You know, this game actually isn't as bad as everyone said it was back then. It was maybe even a bit too ahead of its time in trying to bring a more tabletop-like experience to the JRPG genre". |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 511 |
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As someone who didn't bother picking up Unlimited SaGa when it was released because of what they heard about it...
You're arguing in favor of remaking a game and tearing out the most prominent component that makes it unique. It's like arguing that the generation system should've been removed from Romancing SaGa 2 so that you can keep Gerard the entire game. Also, as Lord Geo stated, something not being used in future installments doesn't mean it's a failure, it's something that happens in game development all the time. There hasn't been a mainline FF game since FFV that used a similar job system, but that's still regarded as one of the best in the genre. The second generation of Fire Emblem 4 was an extremely well received gameplay mechanic, but they didn't use it again until Intelligent Systems was literally making the last game in the series 25 years later and threw it in as fanservice.
You shouldn't try anything new or different because it requires your players to get "acclimated" to it? Not only is this silly because it spits in the face of SaGa as a whole, but it's also disrespectful to the entire industry.
Final Fantasy XIII is enjoying a re-evaluation recently, with a good number of people coming to the realization that "Hey, this isn't so bad actually." But XIII's linearity shouldn't have been a shock. FFX was a ridiculously linear game, the game only has one road that goes through the entire world! But X was well loved, while XIII wasn't, because it happened to come out during a time when there was a backlash against Japanese games in the US, and people listened to (secret) chuds like JonTron making fun of it. XIII's another game I avoided because of its reputation, ended up getting thrown in on a Humble Bundle deal and realizing "actually, this is pretty cool." |
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