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Forum - View topicHow Does Piracy Affect Korean Webtoon Artists?
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tbrown3514
Posts: 19 |
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Whole heartedly agree. I live Pian Pian and when I saw how much it hurt the author I had to find a way to support her work. Even with anime sometimes I have to wait or watch commercials until I can view certain things. I will say while I don’t want the clutter of physical media I’m worried about when websites lose titles or access. Great article ANN!
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ErikaD.D
Posts: 660 |
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So that means all pirated sites will be shutdown because of it? Like mangas, not all of Webtoons have official translations if I correctly.
Same with food and water.
No offense but being poor is now even a "crime"? There are some low-income people want to support manga/webtoon financially but they can't because their salaries are low or lower. Last edited by ErikaD.D on Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Hal14
 Posts: 727 Location: Heart of africa |
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You are being extremely disingenuous. Reading w/out paying is what's being called a crime, even in the part you quoted. If you want to argue against the article then fine, but twisting the words like that is the kind of 'justification' the quote is referring to and makes you seem defensive which doesn't help your stance. |
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JR-1
Posts: 70 Location: Southeast Asia |
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I joked about how now that manga scanlations are scaling down as english publishers churn things out a lot more and faster they shift their target more into korean/chinese webtoons but actually hearing about it from the artists is disheartening.
Piracy is a complicated topic, but if there's one thing people really should take away from this article is that the "helpful-harmful" ratio, however intangible it is, are more lopsided to the harm for smaller distributors and niche creators. There's no real line, but if people pirate Gundam anime? The "free exposure" certainly is a big factor making gunplas a staple toy all over the world and making it one of the biggest media properties. Shonen Jump manga? To a lesser extent because it elevates brand recognition of SJ itself and still quite a lot of merchandising. But a webtoon artist who has little way of benefiting from exposure (because the only product they can gain value from is devalued) which works for a small publisher who don't have the resource to build an infrastructure to change that (making better app, switching into subscription model) and little way of diversifying (less connection to worldwide publishers, no TV tie-ins)? You just can't argue they're the same |
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asie
Posts: 12 |
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The thing is, Gundam's rightsholders know about this, which is why you can watch many of the Gundam anime series for free, legally, on YouTube. The fundamental counter-point to "piracy gives artists free exposure" is "if artists want free exposure, they can just post their work themselves". Of course, in the case of larger published works it gets more complicated - investors, publishers, production committees... but especially for smaller artists, it's that simple. Not everyone wants to have their work grow uncontrollably. |
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FilthyCasual
Posts: 2415 |
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I'm reminded of the series Drug Candy where the artist made a bonus chapter calling out its scanlators for not only illegally handling his series but also not even including the author's name on their credit page. If you pirate, pirate in silence. No author or artist wants to encounter disrespect. |
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Merxamers
 Posts: 720 |
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This problem unfortunately doesn't just apply to to BL webtoons; a brief search on any manga piracy site will show hundreds, if not thousands, of scanlated manwha and manhua. Fortunately, a lot of these are now legally and officially available to read on apps like Tapas and TappyToon, but i'm sure most readers are just reading the pirated versions rather than pay money.
I'm also reminded of when the "Jahy Won't Be Discouraged" mangaka expressed on Twitter some time ago how upset they were that their work was being pirated- it's a reminder that all the justifications and technicalities people use to justify piracy completely ignore the intentions of the creators themselves. If there's a way to purchase the official release of a manga or manwha, I feel i have to use that first. |
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SHD
Posts: 1759 |
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As far as Lezhin goes you have to give your date of birth when you sign up. ...which nobody double-checks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (And really, was there ever any teenager who didn't lie when a service asked their age?) Anyway, I can't say I'm much of a Korean webtoon authority but going by Lezhin, the only service I have experience with, my issue is that the pricing is not really... attractive? as far as pricing can be attractive, anyway. Yes, some series have new chapters unlocked after certain time and then you can read them for free - you can wait and read each chapter as it's unlocked or, if you're impatient, you can just purchase the chapters. But other series have no such option and you must pay to read the chapters. Or rather, you must buy coins with which you pay for each individual chapter, usually a chapter costs 3 coins. Which would be, again, cool, but considering that the pricing is ~30 USD for 120 coins that gives you ~40 chapters, that's suddenly not so attractive. At least to someone like me who lives in a less fortunate corner of the world, or simply if you're someone with not much of a disposable income. For comparison, at YanMaga Online a chapter usually costs 50 points - so 40 chapters would be 2000 points, which you can buy for 2000 yen → cca 19 USD. It may not seem like a large difference but for someone like me, for example, who lives in a country with a very crappy currency, it's huge difference. There are many Japanese services with a similar business model, like Comico, most of the manga magazines' online libraries, etc. where you can rent or sometimes even buy chapters. But the differences make it so that those alternatives are a ton more attractive (perhaps less lucrative, but as a customer I care for what is good for me). For example, with most of these services you are given a certain amount of coins/points/whatever when you register, if you return regularly, after each buy, etc. so you don't need to start with spending a ton of money just to be able to read that one series you likely signed up for. (Sure, you'll end up spending anyway, but psychologically this is still more attractive.) Also, in most cases the chapters 1. become free after a week or so, and stay free either for a certain amount of time or until they're published in book form; 2. are usually published in book form eventually, so if you stumble onto a series where the chapters are locked already, and want to catch up, you can buy or rent the book(s) without having to pay for each chapter as you go. A tankoubon is ~650-750 yen to buy, and then you also own the story (as far as you own anything that is DRM'ed to hell and back and only available in proprietary formats...) in a book format that you can read in ways other than just scrolling chapters in the app/website. As far as I'm aware Lezhin doesn't sell these webtoons in book form (or at least a collected edition) which is another huge minus as far as I'm concerned. (Also, financial aspect aside, personally I find reading these scrolling formats really grating after a while, it's just not a format I'm comfortable with. Even Comico tends to release its originals in a book format re-arranged to be read in the "normal" way... dunno about Line, though.) |
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SciasSlash
Posts: 120 |
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One reason these artists might be poor that isn't piracy is that lezhin has been noted as underpaying and abusing the artists that work for it several times. Strange how this article doesn't note that at all.
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SaitoHajime101
 Posts: 285 |
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Streaming site this, streaming site that. Problem is there's so many places now to get your content, but its extremely fragmented. Companies treat the digital space the same way they treat brick and mortar stores. The issue is, they shouldn't be because you can aggregate your data into singular spaces. If someone made a tool that allowed aggregation of all sites into an easy-to-see view, which links to the site to purchase said data, it might be easier to reach a wider audience.
However, I will say this is just one piece of a giant puzzle. Everytime I hear arguments for or against Piracy, they are usually black/white comparisons with no grey. One side uses the law to state why you shouldn't, the other sides uses morality. You can't debate against each other when the arguments themselves are on completely different plains. Morality versus Legality. Our laws haven't caught up to our current technological, economic and social situations per country... |
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25thchestnut
Posts: 23 |
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I think one of the reasons why the free exposure argument for piracy falls short is because English translated webcomics tend not to have physical volume releases. Unlike with manga where people might initially read a series illegally but like it enough to want to own a physical copy of it (especially with the rise of manga collecting communities on places like reddit, instagram, and youtube), with webcomics the exposure doesn’t easily translate to direct sales or support for authors. And any other merch that might be released domestically in Korea for the bigger titles are usually not very accessible for people overseas to buy.
Also, I agree with SHD that some of the pricing models like Lezhin’s are not very attractive to potential customers; I always favour simple monthly subscriptions instead. |
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Zzshcl
Posts: 106 |
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I remember when A man of a Virtue author complained on internet and some people were so mad, like serisouly? Some of them justified it by saying they are minor and do not have money, I mean these manhwa are for ADULTS and adults should have an income so the main issue imo are minors and young adult that said they are poor
Parents please control your kids, they are really hardcore manhwa with super sensible contents, and then, the same people, share stuff about respecting certain causes but they commit illegal actions, it is so complicated |
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 388 |
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Whatever anti-piracy measures they put into place wont work. You can still find manga online for free, and if you look same for anime. The fact is people assume the creators lose money from piracy. That is not necessarily true at all. If the free webtoon is taken away there is ZERO proof the pirates would shrug and go, "Welp, guess I need to get that cash out." That's not the way the market for entertainment works. What ends up happening is that media just isn't used and it remains obscure. The creator still loses. Only if the entertainment us effective do people go out and purchase it. If the media is entertaining, the demand gives it worth. People will pay for it. I like the webtoons model for example. People will pay for future chapters of something they are hooked on. Those stories that aren't as good wont get that.
Fact is not all media is good. Not all is entertaining. Interestingly enough, piracy sometimes creates demand for hidden gems that other factors such as language barriers and distribution restrict. Let the market handle this. Although I should note that I share concerns minors are accessing adult materials, but given the internet that's a much more complicated topic that i have no answers to. |
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NobodysDawn
Posts: 58 |
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I’m sure it’s a problem for all webcomic apps, but it would not surprise me if Lezhin is the one getting hit the hardest because they are by far the most ridiculous in what they expect people to pay for their content. Let’s compare them to probably their 3 biggest competitors for webtoons: LINE Webtoon, Tappytoon and Tapas.
Say you have 50 bucks you can spare, the second largest bundle each app offers, to spend at each website. For LINE Webtoon, it will get you 560 coins. Each chapter costs 3 coins, but it goes down to 2 coins if you bundle 25 chapters at a time. That comes out to 186 chapters if you don’t bundle, 280 if you do. That’s assuming you even want to spend the $50, because most series are completely free. The only ones that aren’t are their Webtoon originals that have already ended. Once they end they become daily pass series where you unlock 1-2 free episodes a day per series. What about Tapas? You can get 60,000 ink for $50. A chapter is 375 ink, but it is knocked down to 300 if you have it Auto Unlock chapters. This means 160-200 chapters. Next up: Tappytoon. $50 would get you 320 coins and 1800 ink. A chapter can be purchased for 3 coins or 300 ink. That comes to 112 free chapters. Not great, especially considering there are no free series or free daily chapters. It is also less than half of the value you would get from LINE Webtoon, yet still better than Lezhin. On Lezhin, $50 will get you 230 coins. That translates to a measly 76 chapters. Most webtoons are longer than 76 chapters. Even if it is a shorter one, say about 50 chapters, having to pay $50 to read a single SHORT series is absolutely ridiculous. I’m not championing piracy or anything, but I am championing any of these alternative sites because Lezhin is just not worth it. In a choice between paying to read these series and just not reading them like the creators said, I would unfortunately have to wholeheartedly say I will not read them. Not because the series are bad, and not because I am not willing to pay for webcomics (I have bought several series in their entirety on LINE Webtoon), but simply because Lezhin’s prices are just not worth it. |
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cookiemanstah
 Posts: 546 |
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it's not complicated. Unless you're living in Japan, it's like this:
If you pirate a work that is commercially available, legal, and easy to find (Attack on Titan), that is EVIL If you pirate a work that is extremely difficult to find (Rose of Versailles) or unlicensed (Birdy the Mighty manga), that's alright |
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