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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2340
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 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:07 pm
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-PS Store: I imagine Ryan then spent the day grumbling about people wanting to play old classics.
-Ace Attorney: Ah, so glad to see these, with even the Meiji Era setting intact.
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Fluwm
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 1012
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:33 pm
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It'll be interesting to see how these new Ace Attorney games will be localized, to see how closely they'll adhere to the original games' famous Americanization. Kinda hard to do the same in Meiji-period Japan, yeah? But I'd still kinda love to see them try... imagine the game taking every opportunity to talk about America/American culture, but contemporary America/American culture. Could be wild.
The "Herlock Sholmes" thing is purely a reference/homage to Maurice LeBlanc. Sherlock Holmes has been public domain for decades.[/i]
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OtherSideofSky
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:05 pm
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Really excited to see more Ace Attorney localizations, even if I already played the first DGS in Japanese on my phone. I do hope that the English release has an option for full Japanese text, since they've already confirmed language selection for the voice tracks and visual effects.
| Fluwm wrote: | | The "Herlock Sholmes" thing is purely a reference/homage to Maurice LeBlanc. Sherlock Holmes has been public domain for decades. |
It hasn't stopped endless patent trolling over the one book of stories that isn't public domain in the US. Even losing a major case and an appeal over the movie "Mr. Holmes" didn't do that. (In both it was ruled that the character is public domain in the US and only the details only found in that one book aren't.)
His name is just "Sherlock Holmes" in the Japanese release of DGS.
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BadNewsBlues
Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6272
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:19 pm
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| Fluwm wrote: | | It'll be interesting to see how these new Ace Attorney games will be localized, to see how closely they'll adhere to the original games' famous Americanization. Kinda hard to do the same in Meiji-period Japan, yeah? But I'd still kinda love to see them try... imagine the game taking every opportunity to talk about America/American culture, but contemporary America/American culture. Could be wild. |
Or or or how about keeping things as they are so we Americans can learn more about other cultures and the history of other countries instead of essentially whitewashing things to make it more palatable and more relatable which is a practice that should've died a decade ago. Plus with part of the first game taking place in London this would've been even more absurd.
| Fluwm wrote: | |
The "Herlock Sholmes" thing is purely a reference/homage to Maurice LeBlanc. Sherlock Holmes has been public domain for decades.[/i] |
Seems kinda of reachy especially when Sherlock of course was written by a different writer. And when a good fraction of the people playing this aren't going to get that connection anyway
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Horsefellow
Joined: 01 Jan 2020
Posts: 262
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:54 pm
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| OtherSideofSky wrote: | | It hasn't stopped endless patent trolling over the one book of stories that isn't public domain in the US. Even losing a major case and an appeal over the movie "Mr. Holmes" didn't do that. (In both it was ruled that the character is public domain in the US and only the details only found in that one book aren't.)
His name is just "Sherlock Holmes" in the Japanese release of DGS. |
I still see Sherlock Holmes pop up in other media all the time so I wonder why the game in particular has to change it. Unless this is just Capcom being extra paranoid and covering all their bases in advance.
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Lord Geo
Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 2665
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:12 pm
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| Horsefellow wrote: |
| OtherSideofSky wrote: | | It hasn't stopped endless patent trolling over the one book of stories that isn't public domain in the US. Even losing a major case and an appeal over the movie "Mr. Holmes" didn't do that. (In both it was ruled that the character is public domain in the US and only the details only found in that one book aren't.)
His name is just "Sherlock Holmes" in the Japanese release of DGS. |
I still see Sherlock Holmes pop up in other media all the time so I wonder why the game in particular has to change it. Unless this is just Capcom being extra paranoid and covering all their bases in advance. |
Apparently Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's estate went as far as filing a lawsuit over a take on Holmes that was too respectful of women, as that take on Holmes in only found in the stories that have yet to enter the public domain, i.e. "Only the version of Holmes who's a jerk is public domain". I imagine Capcom made DGS's Holmes an absolutely wonderful person to be around, one who treats women very well, and therefore could be litigated against.
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OtherSideofSky
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:13 pm
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| Horsefellow wrote: |
| OtherSideofSky wrote: | | It hasn't stopped endless patent trolling over the one book of stories that isn't public domain in the US. Even losing a major case and an appeal over the movie "Mr. Holmes" didn't do that. (In both it was ruled that the character is public domain in the US and only the details only found in that one book aren't.)
His name is just "Sherlock Holmes" in the Japanese release of DGS. |
I still see Sherlock Holmes pop up in other media all the time so I wonder why the game in particular has to change it. Unless this is just Capcom being extra paranoid and covering all their bases in advance. |
I'm guessing that's it. I don't think the Conan Doyle Estate Ltd. would actually have a chance in hell of winning in court, but I doubt Capcom wants to pay for a legal battle for a game that likely won't be that huge a seller. As far as I know, the estate's MO is to take monetary settlements in exchange for not making legal trouble (or at least it was until "Mr. Holmes" called their bluff, although I hear they've still tried since). Anecdotally, I've heard several people who used to work at Capcom-affiliates suggest that it was at least a concern (although I don't know how reliable their info was/is). The name change makes it seems like there's some truth to that, since I can't think of another reason for it.
(As far as the "Sholmes" name goes, LeBlanc originally just went with "Sherlock Holmes," but was quickly forced to change it. In the UK, even "Herlock Sholmes" was too much for Doyle's lawyers, and it was originally translated as "Hemlock Shears." It's now possible to find all three names in various editions of Lupin novels. On the Japanese side of things, Edogawa Rampo just unapologetically stole Lupin for the novel Gold Mask in 1930, and it never caught up to him.)
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Nate148
Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 508
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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:01 pm
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I played Sakura Revolution and I'm sad the chars were all great and this is no ending sad
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2267
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:08 am
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| OtherSideofSky wrote: | |
It hasn't stopped endless patent trolling over the one book of stories that isn't public domain in the US. Even losing a major case and an appeal over the movie "Mr. Holmes" didn't do that. (In both it was ruled that the character is public domain in the US and only the details only found in that one book aren't.). |
I think it’s Baskervilles, right? In any case, having played the first game’s fan translation using a Japanese copy of the game I purchased, the first game does actually quote passages from the novels before each case, which might actually land Capcom in hot water depending on which stories are quoted and which one isn’t in the public domain yet.
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Hal14
Joined: 01 Apr 2018
Posts: 714
Location: Heart of africa
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:43 am
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| Horsefellow wrote: |
| OtherSideofSky wrote: | | It hasn't stopped endless patent trolling over the one book of stories that isn't public domain in the US. Even losing a major case and an appeal over the movie "Mr. Holmes" didn't do that. (In both it was ruled that the character is public domain in the US and only the details only found in that one book aren't.)
His name is just "Sherlock Holmes" in the Japanese release of DGS. |
I still see Sherlock Holmes pop up in other media all the time so I wonder why the game in particular has to change it. Unless this is just Capcom being extra paranoid and covering all their bases in advance. |
The Doyle estate tried to sue Netflix for their depiction of Sherlock in last year's Enola Holmes movie. I don't think Capcom is paranoid when there is precedent for this. If anything, I wonder how shows like Moriarty the Patriot avoid scrutiny. Perhaps because anime is a niche, or at least viewed as a niche by the estate.
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Silver Kirin
Joined: 09 Aug 2018
Posts: 1223
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:36 am
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- Sakura Wars: I don't think SEGA made the right decisions in regards to the series' relaunch. Don't know a lot about the original games, but I heard that some fans didn't like all the changes. Perhaps they should have made a remake of the original games instead.
- Samurai Shodown: cool to see SNK adding Hibiki, I just hope that someday they make a Last Blade III.
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CrypticPurpose
Joined: 15 Jan 2020
Posts: 339
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:12 am
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| BadNewsBlues wrote: |
| Fluwm wrote: | | It'll be interesting to see how these new Ace Attorney games will be localized, to see how closely they'll adhere to the original games' famous Americanization. Kinda hard to do the same in Meiji-period Japan, yeah? But I'd still kinda love to see them try... imagine the game taking every opportunity to talk about America/American culture, but contemporary America/American culture. Could be wild. |
Or or or how about keeping things as they are so we Americans can learn more about other cultures and the history of other countries instead of essentially whitewashing things to make it more palatable and more relatable which is a practice that should've died a decade ago. Plus with part of the first game taking place in London this would've been even more absurd.
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So much this. I couldn't stomach any of the previous localizations as they essentially rewrote everything, which just seemed incredibly disrespectful to the original creators.
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AiddonValentine
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2340
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:42 pm
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| Fluwm wrote: | | It'll be interesting to see how these new Ace Attorney games will be localized, to see how closely they'll adhere to the original games' famous Americanization. Kinda hard to do the same in Meiji-period Japan, yeah? But I'd still kinda love to see them try... imagine the game taking every opportunity to talk about America/American culture, but contemporary America/American culture. Could be wild.
The "Herlock Sholmes" thing is purely a reference/homage to Maurice LeBlanc. Sherlock Holmes has been public domain for decades.[/i] |
The game is going to keep the Meiji Era setting with the Japanese characters keeping their original names. The Meiji Era is a very uniquely Japanese time in history so trying to localize it as, say, post Civil War-era US wouldn't work, though they've made it clear the games are still in-canon with the localization.
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AmpersandsUnited
Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:11 pm
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| CrypticPurpose wrote: | | So much this. I couldn't stomach any of the previous localizations as they essentially rewrote everything, which just seemed incredibly disrespectful to the original creators. |
Perhaps casting a half-Japanese actor for Ryunosuke in the English version is a sign they're going to be better about not erasing Japanese culture in the future.
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pikabot
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 169
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:56 pm
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| Fluwm wrote: | | Sherlock Holmes has been public domain for decades.[/i] |
This is not true. Most of the Sherlock Holmes stories are in the public domain, but there are still a few that will be under copyright in the US for the next few years. And even after that, the Doyle estate will retain trademarks, which are more limited but do no expire so long as they remain in use.
The Doyle Estate are greedy, litigious bastards who have made it clear they will continue to be such even after all of the Sherlock Holmes stories fall into public domain. I don’t have any sort of special insight into the localization, but I’d be extremely surprised if the ongoing legal threat wasn’t at least a factor in switching to the Herlock Sholmes name.
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