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Forum - View topicNEWS: Kodansha Wins 160-Million-Yen Lawsuit Against 3 Pirate Site Admins
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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Urgh... I hate the lost sale argument so much. It's completely hypothetical and artificially inflated. It fails to take into account people who wouldn't have bothered to bought it in the first place and people who have bought it after pirating it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZadCj8O1-0 |
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nemuyoake
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GOOD.
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Puniyo
 Posts: 271 |
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That's a 20 year old argument that just isn't relevant in the age of streaming. Especially since these aren't fansubs, they're raws that were downloaded by japanese users, who have the easiest access to legal content. |
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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Agreed, the numbers are always inflated to an absurd degree. That said, I really wish there was a good way to measure this kind of thing so it can be accurately studied. We all know that the "lost sale" numbers are usually complete nonsense, but at the same time it's equally nonsensical to claim that piracy results in zero financial harm either. |
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encrypted12345
Posts: 723 |
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Yaarg, shoot down three pirate ships, five more will rise up to take their place!
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DavetheUsher
 Posts: 505 |
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IMO it'd seem like it'd be even more relevant in the streaming age where nobody really "buys" anything anymore except for the collectors who want a physical set for their collection. Most cases they just lose out on some mid-video ads. Worst cases they lose out on your 9.99 a month being distributed to every show on the service. Reminds me when things like TiVos and DVRs were on the rise and companies were saying skipping commercials was piracy. These days it'd be Adblocker, I guess. But yeah this is Japan, not America. Nobody's ever been (successfully) sued in America for pirating anime yet. |
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Swissman
Posts: 793 Location: Switzerland |
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Guys, "lost sales" doesn't necessarly mean lost sales from possible buyers of physical media exclusively. It can also stem from damage to the brand. The value of a brand drops when you, as a producer and rights owner, are not in full control anymore of how and where people consume your product, which leads to less income from distributors like streaming sites in case of anime. |
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ChiilongCha
Posts: 38 |
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It applies to digital contents too, what do you mean? It's still a 'potential' loss. |
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kpossibles
 Posts: 148 Location: USA |
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Good!! It's so easy nowaday to buy manga digitally in Japan for a fair price and also used at used bookstores. Hopefully this trend with winning lawsuits against pirate sites in Japan and can be used for cracking down on other pirate sites that share English stuff that is already free or blatantly post the English published version on their website (aka MangaStr**m and MangaR**k). MangaR**k did not shut down and still operates normally.
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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I agree 100% that those are legitimate problems for a copyright holder, but they don't fall under the category of "lost sales". Lost sales are just what the words literally mean. Every time time I have seen "lost sales numbers" mentioned in a copyright lawsuit they only show physical media sales or online paid downloads. I've never seen damages to branding, lost streaming contracts, etc, used in anyone's accounting of "lost sales numbers"--those things are accounted for separately. |
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ErikaD.D
Posts: 660 |
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But where I'd buying and reading manga legally because in my country, there's no buying mangas legally and it doesn't exist. I had no choice but reading manga illegaly on online. Sorry. |
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DRosencraft
Posts: 671 |
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So, let me interject some real law here, since folks seem to get lost in the weeds on this. Lost sales is not a function of the law here. It doesn't even have to be proven for a conviction in a criminal case - which is what this is, seeing as how you have jail sentences being handed out. Very simply, distribution of the copyrighted work of another without consent or legal authority is copyright infringement and is a crime. Period.
The only reason they even bring up lost sales is because when it comes time for the civil penalties and any civil cases, it helps to show that you have a number on the books. In a criminal case, they would then have to prove any stated damages, so it's not as though they can completely make up numbers either. The lawyers will have to detail in their filing how they arrive at their damage estimates. They go as high as possible to both make sure that if they are ever able to collect that they can recover as much as possible, as well as a punitive measure so the culprit doesn't do it again, and that others are discouraged from similar acts. |
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Twage
Posts: 363 Location: North Bergen, NJ |
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You know that for a fact, huh? |
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nemuyoake
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First post: Even if it is for one lost sale, a loss is a loss. Even if only 20% of illegal downloads are lost sales, money is money. Why don't you want authors/companies to get their money? They shouldn't get this money?
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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I can't speak for everyone, but speaking for myself: yes, that is immediately obvious, and it goes without saying. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss a sales number inflation as a separate topic. |
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