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Forum - View topicThis Week in Anime - Just How Trashy is NTR?
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Excellent discussion on the show that sums up how I feel about it (and the manga!) I always feel there is a place for depicting this type of unhealthy relationship dynamic that happens in real life without too much accompanying hand wringing from the masses. Yes, it's reflective of rape culture and heteronormativity that Yuma uses the excuses of "she made me" and "we're both girls so it doesn't count" to hide behind her lesbian feelings for Hotaru, but that sort of thing happens and is a realistic depiction of some unhealthy human emotions and rationalizations. Yuma's clueless denial of her own feelings is what makes this story so compelling (yes, it's trash, but it's compelling trash) - along with all the well-done fan-service. I've heard complaints that the manga art isn't good, but I like the character designs.spoiler[ I think the abusive boyfriend is an interesting wrench to throw in and is reflective of Hotaru's self-destructive nature and her attempt to make Yuma jealous (why she dates him and stays with him). It's also nice that the main guy is one we can sympathize with, because he's not TOTALLY bland (he at least has a backbone and doesn't let Yuma get away with blowing him off all the time).]
Honestly, I just really have enjoyed NTR - even more than Citrus. I don't understand why Citrus is held up on a pedestal next to NTR. I feel like the Citrus relationship started too quickly and I still don't understand the motivations of the two girls or why they like each other and WHY did they have to be stepsisters??? In NTR I get why these two girls would like each other so much spoiler[(long-time friends, Hotaru never got along with anyone else, Yuma saved her from bullies, Hotaru dates/sleeps around in an attempt to get Yuma's attention, etc.)] (Was extra wary with spoiler tags just in case) |
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TsukasaElkKite
 Posts: 4015 |
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Both the NTR manga and anime are fan pandering trash, and I'm still wondering why I even bother with it.
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BalmungHHQ
Posts: 444 |
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What I don't understand is, both people in this column talking about the show clearly have good things to say about it, and are enjoying it on some level, so why are they (and so many others) going out of their way to constantly call it "trash"?
It's a trend in word choice I've seen lately that I really don't understand. If I enjoy something, for any reason, I almost never would go out of my way to call it trash, so I find it strange when people do. Anyway, on the topic of Netsuzou Trap. This was a decent column overall, and they covered a lot of reasons behind why this series may be fun to watch for some. I really enjoy the series myself, especially since I'm a fan of NTR as a genre. (It's nice to see a take on it outside of the "ero" world.) The drama is a lot of fun, and it's enjoyable to follow along with the story of all the characters and see where they end up. I personally feel that once it gets going, it becomes a relatively strong story about some twisted relationships, which I think a lot more people would appreciate if they'd opted to give it a fair chance. Unfortunately, the subject matter turns a lot of people away... And this leads to a lot of people just mindlessly bashing the series and giving it a bad reputation. When even the people who enjoy it call it "trash", it feels like there really is no hope... Either way, it's a story that I'm glad was written, and I'm happy it became popular enough to become an anime. I give many props to Kodama Naoko. She really did a great job with this one.
Interesting to see this brought up, because I've often wondered the same thing. In so many online discussions I've seen, people who trash talk Netsuzou Trap often times suggest Citrus instead. Now, I haven't actually read Citrus myself. I don't know anything about it. But it confuses me why that series in particular is always being pushed as the "actually good yuri" series next to those discussing Netsuzou Trap. Personally, all it's done is reduce my interest in ever reading Citrus. As a fan of Netsuzou Trap, being told "Netsuzou Trap is trash, go read Citrus instead" doesn't invoke any good initial feelings about Citrus. Though for all I know Citrus could be really good, so it's a shame... Regardless, I feel that fans of that series are doing themselves a disservice by trying to promote it through negativity like that. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5929 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I could see if you were talking about the classic predatory stereotype for men since it has been talked about a lot in anime and it has a specific portrayal pattern. But what makes her portrayal a stereotype. Sure it is a negative portrayal, but negativity, even about predatory sexual matters doesn't make a stereotype. Nonetheless, I love both of your remarks, and it has kindled my interest in the show. Thanks. |
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nargun
Posts: 930 |
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It's called trash because this is what this sort of thing is called. "Trash" is the word for it. Melodrama isn't particularly hard to write: you throw shocking revelations at the audience, mix in some salaciousness, and bob's your creepy uncle who keeps looking down your dress. So the author doesn't get any credit for it, doesn't deserve any credit for it; and the show gets no praise for scripting either. cf wrestling "cheap heat"; same basic concept. Same concept as "junk food"; throw enough MSG and sugar at deep-fried cardboard and it'll taste "delicious", but the food is, well, junk. People know the tricks behind fast-food-cooking, aren't usually impressed by it, but literature knowledge isn't as widely distributed, and melodrama isn't as widely recognised as easy/cheap/meaningless. [which isn't to say that being "trash" per-se guarantees that a work will be "bad". There's all sorts of interesting history of trash as works done by members of marginalised communities, in particular, that are way beyond my lit-crit skills to talk about. But the use of the word "trash" to describe sexy-infused stream-of-bullshit narrative is well-established, and -- importantly -- to get full value from that sort of work you need to... have an adversarial relationship with the text? "why is the author making these choices, what does *that* reveal?" rather than treating the author as transparent and the characters as the objects of your inquiry, sort of thing. Framig it as "trash" helps with that mindset] |
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jenthehen
Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Tons of people love "trashy romance novels" so it's kind of a term of endearment while being honest about the content not having a ton of substance - mostly pandering. It's basically GOOD trash entertainment ... as opposed to bad garbage.
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gilnokoibito
 Posts: 109 |
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Iunno I sort of like it though it is irritating at times. If you want to call something trashy this season though, that'd be Skirt no Naka wa Kedamono Deshita. It relies almost completely on sex thus far (most of it not quite consenting) and the main guy is... well, how do you take a guy dressed as a girl telling another girl that men are wolves and will attack you if you're not careful and that you can only trust girls while totally attacking the main girl?? It's really cringy and absolutely horrible (idk why I'm still even watching it. It's awful.)
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3013 |
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Because in anime, a predatory lesbian is a stereotype. Maybe you've just been weirdly lucky and have never encountered it. Now, it's true that in most cases it's not quite as blatant, but even in fairly innocent shows like Love Live, you got a character like Nozomi who gropes the other girls boobs.
Oh gosh. I saw this mentioned in another thread a while back, and I glanced at the first episode. It goes, at least in the uncensored version, well beyond NTR in the porn department, it's basically a softcore hentai. But that's not what makes it trashy. It's just... ugh. Fortunately (probably) it isn't officially licensed by anyone so ANN won't be covering it in any form. (Watch now as crunchy suddenly announces a late simulcast) |
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invalidname
 Contributor Posts: 2480 Location: Grand Rapids, MI |
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You and me both. It makes NTR look like a class act by comparison. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11588 |
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Can't read the article, but I was still curious about what viewers had to say about it, since I dropped it after the first episode. But I had to respond to this.
For decades, until at least the 90s, lesbians were (and sometimes still are) portrayed almost exclusively as predatory in media of all kinds. Prison movies, social dramas where the lesbian seduces the "good girl" into depravity, "educational" films (like anti-drug films suggesting drugs lower your resistance to being preyed upon), crime dramas, comedies - the lesbian was always the predator, and always died in the end, by either murder, suicide or accident. The only thing different in anime is they don't usually have to die. When portrayals of a group are always negative and always the same negative tropes, that's what makes it a stereotype. |
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Random Name
Posts: 651 |
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Not really sure I would say trashy. But I would call it boring and predictable. I find I cared very little for any character before I stopped at around episode 4. I would say the worst character is the so called "good guy" boyfriend. All he did was try to get laid like every episode and then cry how she did not like him when he didn't. I mean they were dating for like a week... while I hate the rapey guy your at least not supposed to like him. I guess since it is shorts there really isn't enough time for character growth.
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Animechic420
 Posts: 1733 Location: A Cave Filled With Riches |
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NTR is trashy because it shows the ugly side of a relationship that nobody asked for. Anyone who likes that crap are people who don't want a happy relationship.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16963 |
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Yes, anyone who likes a show like NTR must obviously not want to be in a happy relationship. I suppose anyone who likes trashy romance novels must also not want a happy relationship or is currently in a bad one right? Any other ridiculous blanket judgments you'd care to share? |
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Fipse
 Posts: 74 |
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Biggest issue with the anime is its quite cliche, crappy drama. A lot of yuri fans have been craving for a more cute, fluffy full on yuri story. And what do we get? NTR and Citrus...
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ZeArNkN
Posts: 96 |
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"Trashy" things can be very entertaining every now and then. Probably because they tend to have some drama in them, which can still be fun to watch even if it's not done particularly well. I used to watch a ton of clips of The Maury Show back in the day because the situations and reactions in that show were just entertaining, even if it was trying to be exploitative and trashy.
I may end up watching NTR in the future just for the fanservice and drama. The show's premise feels like a ticking time bomb, and I'm curious to see how it will all come crashing down. |
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