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Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (TV + OAV + movies).


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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:50 pm Reply with quote


Season 01: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (TV)
Compilation 01: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - The Laughing Man (OAV)
Season 02: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd GIG (TV)
Compilation 2: Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Individual Eleven (OAV)
Movie - Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: Solid State Society (movie)
Season 3: Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 (ONA)
Compilation 3: Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 - Sustainable Warfare (movie)
Season 4: Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045 (ONA 2)

Source: Manga (completed @ 1 volume by Masamune Shirow)

Demographic: Seinen

Animation Studio: Production I.G.

Genres: action, drama, mystery, psychological, science fiction, thriller

Themes: androids, artificial intelligence, assassins, conspiracy, crime, cyberpunk, cyborgs, detective, dystopian, espionage, factions, future, mecha, mercenaries, military, philosophy, police, politics, terrorism, virtual reality

Plot Summary: In the future, life between the digital and physical world has been blurred. The boundary of technology and humanity has been stretched beyond imagination with lives being led in both the electronic and physical worlds. With the melding of man and machine, a new cybernetic level of existence is being created —an existence that continues to redefine mankind.

Air Date & Platform:
(Date) (day) (Pending)
Available on: Pending

Episode Count / Runtime:
Pending
----------------------------------

Yes, I looked at the "All Discussions" thread already, but the listed threads are either pretty sparse in content or completely specific to just one aspect.

I only saw up to Vol.4 like, two years ago, and never got around to finishing it (had borrowed it from a friend at the time). But now that I've collected all of seasons one and two (in glorious DTS audio), I thought I'd make an "official" thread to help keep track of any questions I have or for anyone that wanted to discuss the series in general (with spoiler tags, of course).

Anyway, after all this time, I'd nearly forgotten how cool this series was. The whole cyberpunk atmosphere, CSI-ish nature of Section 9's adventures, political and societal conspiracies, the Laughing Man case, the philosophical undertones, and all of that jazz makes for some real entertaining anime.

I'm only back up to Vol.2 at the time of writing this, right after episode 6, to be exact, where spoiler[ Aramaki decided to conduct an official investigation of the Laughing Man case]. And I have to say, the series has a lot going for it in terms of presentation, pacing, and overall atmosphere.

Production I.G. put a lot of work into the art and animation, as it's very sleek and clean for a majority of the episodes I've seen up to now. I'm also enjoying the music a lot more, as any Kanno fan would. Formerly, I had just been listening to the first OST all this time, but I hadn't seen the anime in so long, I couldn't remember anything to picture with the music. Needless to say, though, it flows so much better when I can have a moving image going along with it.

As for the voice acting. I prefer it Japanese (as I do most anime), but I'll commend ZRO Limit for a really good effort. In particular, I like Aramaki and Togusa's dub voices. But for some reason or another, I just can't stand Mary McGlynn's Major. Every time I hear her, I think of Helba from .hack//SIGN, which is not the prettiest image in the world, whereas after seeing Atsuko Tanaka in an interview on the extras disc, I find her to be a pretty attractive lady and very befitting of her character's role Embarassed. Also, I get a greater sense of discipline and stoicism from the Japanese cast as opposed to the dub, but that's just my preference because I think it fits better with the kind of setting this takes place in. Aside from that, though, I'd give the dub an A- (which is pretty good in my book). I was especially pleased to hear how they handled a lot of the long-winded dialogue when it came to theorizing or explaining certain details.

Anyway, this is a great, great series that I'm hoping to watch and finish within the next couple of weeks (a volume a day is all I can put in right now).

Oh, and before I forget. The "Official Log" DVD, that's just a compilation of the Laughing Man case, right? Is it just recycled animation with new narration, or is it completely original?

[EDIT: Added fancy opener stuff.]


Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Jul 17, 2024 9:49 am; edited 15 times in total
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Deltakiral



Joined: 07 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
Oh, and before I forget. The "Official Log" DVD, that's just a compilation of the Laughing Man case, right? Is it just recyled animation with new narration, or is it completely original?


Well the book that comes with official log dvd is really where your spending your money. Although the DVD does have interviews with basically everyone involved with the show, and also there are analysis on the episodes.

For as big as a fan you are (or at least seem) it's definitely worth the money, the book alone has so much information that its well worth the price. In fact I was pretty sad to hear that log book number 2 was canceled.

Here's some pics from the books.

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic 4

As for the actual discussion let me go back and check out the dvds and then I'll respond to some of the things you mentioned.
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Randall Miyashiro



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:46 pm Reply with quote
I was really sad that the log 2 was canceled. That book uses really heavy paper stock. I believe that 4 logs were released in Japan and considered buying them at the time, but decided on getting the 4 Intron Depot books instead.

Some of the trinkets that came with the SE were rather strange. I threw away those silly ID cards, and maid robot toys. THe cards and mousepad also seemed silly, The shirts and CDs were cool, but did we really need 3 Tachikomas? The GITS SAC DVDs are really well mastered, and I used to use them as part of my standard definition reference collection. I will easily buy this series again when it is released in HD.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:07 pm Reply with quote
Deltakiral wrote:
For as big as a fan you are (or at least seem) it's definitely worth the money

Actually, I'm pretty new to the whole GitS world. For as long as I've been into anime, I've never really made the effort to really watch it until now.

I saw the original movie only once, and that was like, 10 years ago when they aired it on Encore. And of course, I remember next to nothing about it other than the concept of spoiler[ how a "ghost" is supposed to represent some or sort of sentience or individual existence within the formerly lifeless machines. But is that supposed to be like an artificial intelligence, or is it something beyond?] Again, it's been 10 years, and I haven't' really done any research in between then so that I wouldn't ruin the process of self-discovery.

To this day, I've always been curious to check the franchise out. I own the SE of the first movie, the R2 of the second, the SE Music Video Anthology, and all LEs of SAC (of which I've only watched the first 2 Vols. of SAC thus far). I guess you could say from what little I've seen of SAC and what I sort of remember of the original that I've started to develop a real liking for Shirow's work.

Honestly, after sort of engrossing myself in all the hype for a while and finally giving the whole thing a chance, I'm excited about what kinds of themes and other characteristics I'll find after a little bit of exposure.

But yeah, thanks for the info on the first Official Log. I looked it up on a few websites and didn't know it was so in-depth Shocked, not to mention produced in limited quantity... Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop, but I'm sure I can still find a few if I look around the 'net.

EDIT: Just finished episode 8, the one with spoiler[ the organ thieves]. I have a question not quite related to anything serious, but what was the kanji on the president's fan? The only symbol I recognized was ichi, so I'm guessing it just says nippon ichi (kind of typical for cocky business men, right?).

But that was a fun episode to see The Major, Togusa, and Batou scare those little punks spoiler[ and the lead one pissed his pants Laughing]. The concept of spoiler[ organ cloning seems like it'd be something very possible in our society, though the whole idea of cybernetic prosthetics seems way behind in comparison at this point.]

Thinking about it now, the way they depict technology in this series reminds me a lot of Star Trek: The Next Generation; it's all plausible in theory, but more than likely way ahead of our time. However, it's the great mark of a visionary that sure provides a lot of hope, I suppose.

EDIT: Fixed a grammar boo-boo.


Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Redbeard 101
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:29 am Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:

But that was a fun episode to see The Major, Togusa, and Batou scare those little punks spoiler[ and the lead one pissed his pants Laughing]. The concept of spoiler[ organ cloning seems like it'd be something very possible in our society, though the whole idea of cybernetic prosthetics seems way behind in comparison at this point.]

Thinking about it now, the way they depict technology in this series reminds me a lot of Star Trek: The Next Generation; it's all plausible in theory, but more than likely way ahead of our time. However, it's the great mark of a visionary that sure provides a lot of hope, I suppose.


I laughed my ass off as well when they had their fun with the punks. I only wished I could do that with customers that come into the bank or the customers I used to have working retail. Would've made the job much more bearable. As for the organ cloning, someone correct me if I'm wrong but haven't some scientists in Europe actually done that? We have the beginnings of cybernetic prosthetics in a way. I mean we have "fake" hearts now which are being put into patients. It's not perfected or hardly an everyday procedure but we have been able to start on it. I'd honestly say some of the cybernetic implants the Major and others use are only a decade or two away.

I always enjoyed the GITS movie and loved the artwork period. I have 2 of his artbooks actually. The philosophy of man vs. machine and related topics really made the movie and subsequent series more then just another action shoot em up. While the movie was heavier on these aspects, or at least they're presented in a big clump being only a 2hr movie, the series spreads the more philosophical points out more then the movie. I think this lets the action and group dynamics of the people in Section 9 come out more. I'm a big fan of the cyber punk sci-fi type shows so GITS always stuck with me, and more so now with the tv series. I also think one strong point of the show was the feel of the background. IG did a great job with the series of making colors stand out in a positive manner and making the scenery very impressive. While it is the future it stills has that gritty urban feel to it. To me it makes the show seem not as "futuristic" as it actually is, as opposed to something like Godannar or Fafner where the colors are so bright and the technology is screaming in your face. The music was also some of the best I've heard in anime period. Overall I love GITS and can't wait to finally watch the SSS movie.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:44 pm Reply with quote
Just finished episode 10, the one with spoiler[ the crazy soldier gone serial killer]. And boy, I'm surprised I was eating lunch while watching it Anime smallmouth. Not that gore, extreme & twisted violence, and gut-wrenching screams of spoiler[ women getting the skin of their torsos cut off while watching it at the same time] really bothers me, but that was a great episode, nonetheless.

This is where the CSI-ish nature shows itself, and I'm all up for mysteries and such. But I don't think I've ever seen anything quite as sadistic as this particular scenario in any anime. Well, maybe Elfen Lied, but I've only seen the first volume spoiler[ Nana's death (I think that was her name), was pretty senseless, and probably more so than this].

And was it me or spoiler[ were those Japanese-Amercian guys from the CIA purposely depicted as a sort of knock on the U.S. and their "faulty justice system?" Or maybe I've just been watching too many government conspiracy movies that happen to give the U.S. govt. a bad name...].
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Randall Miyashiro



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:56 pm Reply with quote
Moros wrote:
And as for the voices, I actually liked most of the dub (besides the aforementioned Tachikomas, who were still funny in Tachikoma Days). The voices of Togusa, Aramaki, Batou and the Major all sounded natural, with the rest being not far behind.


My favorite Tachikoma days was the one where they use Dio's (From JoJo's) stand the World. It's funny how almost all Japanese otaku are versed in Jojo's Bizarre Adventure and Hokuto no Ken (how many times is it mentioned in Gantz) but most of the fans from the States have never read/watched them. My favorite GITS episode is the one about the Tachikoma, the little girl and the mysterious box. It was a fun heartwarming adventure. The voices for the Tachikoma also plays Togusa's wife.

I only watched the first two DVDs in English since my roommate was interested. The Major sounded completely different (more monotone?) to me, although not in a bad way.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:30 pm Reply with quote
Moros wrote:
Her delivery was natural (monotone yes, but it was consistent monotone Laughing ), and it suited her character design.

Natural, yes, but monotone isn't always a good thing. From what I've watched in the series and remember in Atsuko Tanaka's interview, Motoko Kusanagi's character is kind of a head-figure for all of Section 9, almost like their mother, if you will. But at the same time, she's also a woman, though a pretty stern and tough one at that. And did you get a load of the ocassional fanservice Anime catgrin? I mean, just her "uniform" alone is screaming for attention. Not that I'm implying she's the kind of woman looking to get some, but for whatever reason someone created that character design, the sex appeal is apparent.

I feel Tanaka does a really good job varying the inflection in her voice from being the Bossy Major, the Wise-Cracking Major, the Flirty Major, and The Major Herself (which I'm still trying to figure out). The only inflection I'm feeling out of McGlynn's voice is the Bossy voice, and maybe a little of the Wise-Crack voice, but I'm definitely not getting that Flirty voice or anything even subtlely sensual from her delivery.

But again, the only voice I know Mary Elizabeth McGlynn from is Helba of .hack//SIGN, and I didn't even like that overall dub too much either. So when I hear The Major in English, I get that image of Helba (who is not sexy at all Evil or Very Mad).

Or maybe I'm just unconsciously obsessing over what Tanaka really looks like. She acted a lot like The Major during her interview, now that I think about it, though a little more reserved. Ah~, maybe it's just the voice... Perhaps Janyse Jaud would've been a good choice, now she has sexy voice!

Moros wrote:
But I liked Togusa's VA the best. Didn't really sound like a policeman (not spoiler tagging that, it was never a secret). But still, he sounded like a guy you would meet in the street, I never thought any of his lines sounded strange or wrong. I need to check up on what other roles the VA has done, because I suspect he merely used his natural voice, which is totally fine here.

Yeah, Crispin Freeman's always been a consistently good performer, though if you ask me, most of his characters are either macho, dark/stoic, or some kind of anti-hero.

However, Togusa is a pretty plain guy, which I think is a nice parallel to him being the closest "true body" (implantless) guy in the group. If you've heard enough of Freeman, it's real easy to spot his voice (either him, Steve Blum, or JY Bosch since they tend to be used a lot, it seems). His inflection in this particular series is an excellent match to how Kouichi Yamadera plays him in Japanese, so I'm real happy with that role.

EDIT: Fixed the spelling of a word.


Last edited by Tony K. on Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Randall Miyashiro



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:17 am Reply with quote
Moros wrote:
As for only watching the first two DVDs, it will pay to watch the rest of the series (if you liked what you have seen so far). It gets way better later on, but the last episode spoiler[is rather quiet, lots of talk, things get wrapped up. But it is the few episodes before the end which really are the best, with heaps of action. For all the philosophy, GitS is at its best when the action is in the "on" position.]


I've seen the entire series in Japanese twice now, I meant I only watched the first two DVDs in English. I agree that I like the later episodes better, and overall like 2nd Gig better than the first half. Besides the Tachikoma episode which I mentioned earlier, I am also reminded of the "crane" episode which I found moving and the one about Pazu's back story. I suppose for me I tend to like the more introspective character driven episodes, I feel that the series has such a large ensemble that it benefits from episodes that focus on individuals.
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Hokum



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:47 am Reply with quote
As a whole GITS has to be my favourite Anime, with SAC at the very top.

Its simply great, from all points, from the characters, to the way the camera is used as if it was on a cameramans shoulder etc.

My favourite character has to be Saito, and the bit in SSS is solid gold.

Great series, which i would find hard to understand anyone not liking it.
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Space Pirate Kid



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:40 am Reply with quote
guhh i still haven't seen 2nd gig yet!

SAC was actually what got me into anime in the first place, ill have to get my hands on 2nd gig one of these days.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:05 pm Reply with quote
Just finished episodes 11 & 12.

In 11, spoiler[ is there something more to that Aoi guy later in the series. Judging from his communiaction setup in that panel and the Laughing Man motto written on the cover, and not to mention his ability in wiping everyone's memory in that entire facility, his cyber skills seem like they'd be a real threat, or at least very useful later on. A simple yes or no will suffice, no need for details.

Also, is he just a fan of the Laughing Man and was he really suffering from post-whatever syndrome like everyone else? Well, I doubt that second part since he was referred to as "cheif" and probably put on that vegetable personality of his to throw everyone off (great allusion to the catcher's mitt).]


And 12 was especially fun. spoiler[ Tachikoma gets a chance to shine, we also get that heart-warming anecdote about the goldfish, and then the social commentary by way of that old man's cyberbrain movie theater.

That scene in particular does a great job illustrating how people can get stuck in a sort of "dream world." But at some point, we all just have to wake up. It sort of reminds me of the concept behind The Matrix, though without the whole "robots rule the world, and our bodies are their food" theme.

Personally, I'm closer to being a realist like The Major, though probably not as concise about it. I mean, I do watch anime after all, where "realism" is a rarity in itself. But I really like that aspect about her (as well as other characters that to tend to show that kind of personality in other titles).]


This series does an excellent job of mixing all sorts of themes and characters. You've got action, drama, and mystery in all of the "police" episodes, and now they even manage a fun, little brain-teaser with some very subtle comedy in it; definitely worth any anime fan's time.
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Thanatos01s2



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:50 pm Reply with quote
Tony K. wrote:
Just finished episodes 11 & 12.

In 11, spoiler[ is there something more to that Aoi guy later in the series. Judging from his communiaction setup in that panel and the Laughing Man motto written on the cover, and not to mention his ability in wiping everyone's memory in that entire facility, his cyber skills seem like they'd be a real threat, or at least very useful later on. A simple yes or no will suffice, no need for details.

Also, is he just a fan of the Laughing Man and was he really suffering from post-whatever syndrome like everyone else? Well, I doubt that second part since he was referred to as "cheif" and probably put on that vegetable personality of his to throw everyone off (great allusion to the catcher's mitt).]


And 12 was especially fun. spoiler[ Tachikoma gets a chance to shine, we also get that heart-warming anecdote about the goldfish, and then the social commentary by way of that old man's cyberbrain movie theater.

That scene in particular does a great job illustrating how people can get stuck in a sort of "dream world." But at some point, we all just have to wake up. It sort of reminds me of the concept behind The Matrix, though without the whole "robots rule the world, and our bodies are their food" theme.

Personally, I'm closer to being a realist like The Major, though probably not as concise about it. I mean, I do watch anime after all, where "realism" is a rarity in itself. But I really like that aspect about her (as well as other characters that to tend to show that kind of personality in other titles).]


This series does an excellent job of mixing all sorts of themes and characters. You've got action, drama, and mystery in all of the "police" episodes, and now they even manage a fun, little brain-teaser with some very subtle comedy in it; definitely worth any anime fan's time.

To your episode 11 question a yes or no doesn't work unfortunately, it is a completely subjective view in that instance. I would say no personally but I know people will disagree with that for there own reasons. When you finish the series ask that question again if you are still curious. I should clarify, I was reffering to your question of whether he is a threat or not. But yes, there is more to him.

I personally really like the tachikoma, I too like it when they have their own episodes. They are actually quite insightful characters and they bring up many valid arguments for human existence. I have talked to others and they find them annoying or useless. NOT ME! This series only gets better I have seen SAC 4 times and the 2nd gig 3 times.

This is without a doubt the best show I have ever seen, it is incredible how deep it is and how well it is made. Not to mention the music, best music in any anime. God I love this show...


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Space Pirate Kid



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:16 pm Reply with quote
haha yeah the tachikomas rule!

the striking force of a tank, the agility of a spider, the insight of a philosopher and best of all the voice of a 13 year old girl!

the perfect weapon! Very Happy
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Zivil



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:23 am Reply with quote
Thanatos01s2 wrote:
To your episode 11 question a yes or no doesn't work unfortunately, it is a completely subjective view in that instance. I would say no personally but I know people will disagree with that for there own reasons. When you finish the series ask that question again if you are still curious. I should clarify, I was reffering to your question of whether he is a threat or not. But yes, there is more to him.

I just re-read about referring to Tony's question spoiler[about Aoi being a threat or not. You are absolutely correct in the disagreements about him, Thanatos. I'm in the yes column in his potential to be a threat. As Tony already pointed out, Aoi's cyberhacking skills are substantial and formidable. And as Thanatos said, yes, you will see more of him].

Quote:
This series only gets better I have seen SAC 4 times and the 2nd gig 3 times.

This is without a doubt the best show I have ever seen, it is incredible how deep it is and how well it is made. Not to mention the music, best music in any anime. God I love this show...

...ditto... Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is one of the shows that got me back into anime. It is so fresh and original when seen for the first time. The end just left me hungry for more. So I was very excited when SAC 2nd Gig was put into the adultswim lineup.

SAC 2nd Gig gets a bit more intense at times. Overall, I think that 2nd Gig is a more developed and mature series than GITS:SAC, but like any follow-up effort has a hard time holding up to the original. One thing I really did enjoy about 2nd Gig was that you get so much of the backstory for Stand Alone Complex. It makes SAC much more satisfying the 2nd and 3rd time around by filling in some of the questions left unanswered.

Tony, you will definitely want to see 2nd Gig then go back and re-watch both SAC and SAC:2G straight through... probably several times.
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