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INTEREST: Artist Apologizes, Deletes Chibi Maruko-chan Dōjinshi of Maruko as Drug Addict


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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2436
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 2:22 pm Reply with quote
Explaining the controversy:

In Japan, there is no fair use defense one can use, but copyright holders aren't required to defend their IP or risk losing it, and no one else (ie. platforms like Youtube or Twitter, or venues like Comiket) is required to take down copyrighted content, so a lot of derivative doujinshi are able to exist and sometimes be sold in the same venue as the official product. This would be nearly unheard of in the US, but it's more or less a sign of mutual respect between fans and creators in Japan, with creators often keeping their hands out of the doujin market so they can benefit from the community and stay on fans' good side. Fans, likewise, toe under the line to keep themselves in the good graces of IP holders who might be worried about their "brand image" if a doujin work eclipses the official product and becomes associated too closely with it in the public eye. In this case, if we take the claim in good faith, the IP holder likely believes the doujinshi got too much attention and could be a liability to peoples' view of the original show, so they struck it down. Some people in Japan understand this angle, but there's a growing minority of people who have been critical of censorship in the industry as of late and have become free speech advocates. For whatever reason, this controversy has reminded them of other more direct kinds of censorship in the doujin scene. Thus, they're raising their voice.

The US has protections against fair use because of free speech, but also requires IP holders to pursue legal action against copyright violations. The idea is that if you aren't defending your trademark, you are only sitting on a property that others can utilize better than you. Business takes priority. Fair use might protect transformative works, but it won't protect you if all you want to do is draw a fun comic based on the original work because you like to do so and want to share.
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louis6578



Joined: 31 Jul 2013
Posts: 1881
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 3:17 pm Reply with quote
I think I'll just say that I hate how overly protective Japan is over their IP. If I made a franchise of wacky stories for children and someone made creepy deviantart drawings or grimdark fan comics, I'd either laugh at what my work has inspired or move on with my money and allow people to make all the fun things they want, so long as it's nonprofit.

Why is their culture so entitled? It's kind of embarrassing.
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 3331
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 3:37 pm Reply with quote
Hypocrisy

You could make a doujin of this character in every sexual position imaginable, but if she smokes dope and doobies despite it being R-18 doujin anyway and not even glorifying drug use (It probably had a bad ending or straight up death like most of these subversions), they want it taken down. It had a right to exist.
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i got the shivers!



Joined: 30 Nov 2022
Posts: 118
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 4:31 pm Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
Hypocrisy

You could make a doujin of this character in every sexual position imaginable, but if she smokes dope and doobies despite it being R-18 doujin anyway and not even glorifying drug use (It probably had a bad ending or straight up death like most of these subversions), they want it taken down. It had a right to exist.


Other companies and creators have asked people not do to sexual stuff with their work as well. Uma Musume Pretty Derby is pretty well known for asking artists not to draw adult, sexual works of their characters. There was also a certain Pokemon doujinshi back in the day that Gamefreak did not like and asked the author to stop selling and they complied with their wishes.

If a creator asks you not to do something with their work, especially something like promoting harmful and hateful things like drug usage, it's generally a cool thing to respect their wishes. It costs nothing to be a decent human being and it's nice to see fans who know how to do that. Some other groups I can think of could take some notes.
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Dark Mac



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 5:00 pm Reply with quote
i got the shivers! wrote:
Hoppy800 wrote:
Hypocrisy

You could make a doujin of this character in every sexual position imaginable, but if she smokes dope and doobies despite it being R-18 doujin anyway and not even glorifying drug use (It probably had a bad ending or straight up death like most of these subversions), they want it taken down. It had a right to exist.


Other companies and creators have asked people not do to sexual stuff with their work as well. Uma Musume Pretty Derby is pretty well known for asking artists not to draw adult, sexual works of their characters. There was also a certain Pokemon doujinshi back in the day that Gamefreak did not like and asked the author to stop selling and they complied with their wishes.

If a creator asks you not to do something with their work, especially something like promoting harmful and hateful things like drug usage, it's generally a cool thing to respect their wishes. It costs nothing to be a decent human being and it's nice to see fans who know how to do that. Some other groups I can think of could take some notes.


Yes, and all those creators were garbage for doing so too. Chibi Maruko's rights holders (not even the original author, since she's dead), Game Freak, and the Uma Musume people are all lame in that regard.
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Hoppy800



Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 3331
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Dark Mac wrote:
i got the shivers! wrote:
Hoppy800 wrote:
Hypocrisy

You could make a doujin of this character in every sexual position imaginable, but if she smokes dope and doobies despite it being R-18 doujin anyway and not even glorifying drug use (It probably had a bad ending or straight up death like most of these subversions), they want it taken down. It had a right to exist.


Other companies and creators have asked people not do to sexual stuff with their work as well. Uma Musume Pretty Derby is pretty well known for asking artists not to draw adult, sexual works of their characters. There was also a certain Pokemon doujinshi back in the day that Gamefreak did not like and asked the author to stop selling and they complied with their wishes.

If a creator asks you not to do something with their work, especially something like promoting harmful and hateful things like drug usage, it's generally a cool thing to respect their wishes. It costs nothing to be a decent human being and it's nice to see fans who know how to do that. Some other groups I can think of could take some notes.


Yes, and all those creators were garbage for doing so too. Chibi Maruko's rights holders (not even the original author, since she's dead), Game Freak, and the Uma Musume people are all lame in that regard.


Uma Musume creators are especially on some BS pulling a stunt like that, it's an purely otaku franchise and very niche, and those kinds of franchises thrive on nearly any fanart it can get, especially sexual.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3585
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 5:16 pm Reply with quote
Juno016 wrote:
The US has protections against fair use because of free speech, but also requires IP holders to pursue legal action against copyright violations.

Wrong. You have to defend your trademarks to keep them. But nowhere does it mention and no way do you lose copyright even if you don't enforce it.
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mrsatan
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 915
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 6:27 pm Reply with quote
I took a look around for it on a certain dōjin website. It wasn't there, but I noticed there was only one dōjinshi for the entire series. I'm assuming it was hentai by the cover, but I'm not going to look to find out.

The manga was semi-autobiographical. Maruko is based on the late author and the character Hamaji that is portrayed as a dealer is also a real person.
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BlueAlf



Joined: 02 Jan 2017
Posts: 1555
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 7:41 pm Reply with quote
I'm usually not troubled with doujin stuff. But considering the source material, I understand if they thought the artist went a bit too far.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 7:59 pm Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
Juno016 wrote:
The US has protections against fair use because of free speech, but also requires IP holders to pursue legal action against copyright violations.

Wrong. You have to defend your trademarks to keep them. But nowhere does it mention and no way do you lose copyright even if you don't enforce it.


Not wrong. It's not statutory law, but judicial made law. If you do not defend your copyright, a defendant can claim that you as the copyright holder abandoned it, and therefore are not entitled to seek protection now. If not terminating the case entirely, it can significantly diminish any financial recovery. Trademark law simply went about formalizing the process because there was more money involved and industry advocates wanted to be able to capitalize on stuff like marketing, which can be fickle and time sensitive, while attaining more certainty in the process and how it would play out in courts.
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Egan Loo



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1363
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2023 10:37 pm Reply with quote
DRosencraft wrote:
Blanchimont wrote:
Juno016 wrote:
The US has protections against fair use because of free speech, but also requires IP holders to pursue legal action against copyright violations.

Wrong. You have to defend your trademarks to keep them. But nowhere does it mention and no way do you lose copyright even if you don't enforce it.


Not wrong. It's not statutory law, but judicial made law. If you do not defend your copyright, a defendant can claim that you as the copyright holder abandoned it, and therefore are not entitled to seek protection now. If not terminating the case entirely, it can significantly diminish any financial recovery.


Please provide citations for these claims.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3585
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 1:24 am Reply with quote
DRosencraft wrote:
Blanchimont wrote:
Wrong. You have to defend your trademarks to keep them. But nowhere does it mention and no way do you lose copyright even if you don't enforce it.

Not wrong

Wrong. Dead wrong. Again.

Copyright in US persists for the life of the author and 70 years after the author’s death. (17 U.S. Code § 302)

It won't matter one iota whether you enforce it or not, you as the author will have the copyright for that period of time, unless you transfer the rights(based on agreements) or willfully(ie consciously and explicitly) abandon the rights in favor of public domain (case law)...
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GhostStalkerSA



Joined: 17 May 2015
Posts: 425
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 6:15 am Reply with quote
Hoppy800 wrote:
Dark Mac wrote:
i got the shivers! wrote:

Other companies and creators have asked people not do to sexual stuff with their work as well. Uma Musume Pretty Derby is pretty well known for asking artists not to draw adult, sexual works of their characters. There was also a certain Pokemon doujinshi back in the day that Gamefreak did not like and asked the author to stop selling and they complied with their wishes.

If a creator asks you not to do something with their work, especially something like promoting harmful and hateful things like drug usage, it's generally a cool thing to respect their wishes. It costs nothing to be a decent human being and it's nice to see fans who know how to do that. Some other groups I can think of could take some notes.


Yes, and all those creators were garbage for doing so too. Chibi Maruko's rights holders (not even the original author, since she's dead), Game Freak, and the Uma Musume people are all lame in that regard.


Uma Musume creators are especially on some BS pulling a stunt like that, it's an purely otaku franchise and very niche, and those kinds of franchises thrive on nearly any fanart it can get, especially sexual.

There’s a meme among a lot of Otaku communities in that know that if you draw Uma Musume R-18 works, the Yakuza will go after you, because of how involved they are in the Japanese horse racing scene and wanting to protect their investments (the horse girls in Uma Musume are based off of real Japanese racehorses of course, and the Yakuza might have some investment in those horses).

Of course, it’s just a meme, but that and creator and fan pressure works to keep the amount of R-18 work made of the series way down lower than what an otaku franchise usually generates.
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 9:43 am Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
DRosencraft wrote:
Blanchimont wrote:
Wrong. You have to defend your trademarks to keep them. But nowhere does it mention and no way do you lose copyright even if you don't enforce it.

Not wrong

Wrong. Dead wrong. Again.

Copyright in US persists for the life of the author and 70 years after the author’s death. (17 U.S. Code § 302)

It won't matter one iota whether you enforce it or not, you as the author will have the copyright for that period of time, unless you transfer the rights(based on agreements) or willfully(ie consciously and explicitly) abandon the rights in favor of public domain (case law)...


Critical thinking time. How do you demonstrate to a court that a plaintiff has willfully abandoned their rights? Answer; you argue that they knowingly failed to defend numerous other alleged violations of similar nature to the one in question, thereby you shift the burden to them to show that they have done the non-defined minimum necessary to show they haven't willfully abandoned their rights (usually at a minimum would be sending a request to cease the infringing action). Since "willfully", "consciously", and "explicitly" are not defined in any statute, not defined in this context in case law, it becomes a matter of interpretation at the trial level until a binding ruling is in place. Yes, an author can write an open letter and state "I will not contest copyright violations of "X" work. I submit "X" to the public domain." But that is not the only means or method.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3585
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2023 12:07 pm Reply with quote
DRosencraft wrote:
Critical thinking time. How do you demonstrate to a court that a plaintiff has willfully abandoned their rights? Answer; you argue that they knowingly failed to defend numerous other alleged violations of similar nature to the one in question, thereby you shift the burden to them to show that they have done the non-defined minimum necessary to show they haven't willfully abandoned their rights (usually at a minimum would be sending a request to cease the infringing action). Since "willfully", "consciously", and "explicitly" are not defined in any statute, not defined in this context in case law, it becomes a matter of interpretation at the trial level until a binding ruling is in place. Yes, an author can write an open letter and state "I will not contest copyright violations of "X" work. I submit "X" to the public domain." But that is not the only means or method.

Wrong.

The copyright is life of the author +70 years. I say it again, you DON'T need to enforce it to keep it. Simple. And that fact isn't going to change no matter how you try to twist reality.

Willfully in this case means you with clear intent give it up to the public domain. Just neglecting it isn't going to do one iota to lose it. So sorry but you're dead wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯—

https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html
Quote:
How long does a copyright last?

The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years.
..
Do I have to renew my copyright?

No. Works created on or after January 1, 1978, are not subject to renewal registration. As to works published or registered prior to January 1, 1978, renewal registration is optional after 28 years but does provide certain legal advantages.

https://copyright.byu.edu/copyright-myths
Quote:
Myth #11: If I don’t defend my copyright I may lose it

False. Copyright protection is effectively never lost, unless explicitly given away or the copyright has expired. However, if you do not actively defend your copyright, there may be broader unauthorized uses than you would like. It is a good idea to pursue enforcement actions as soon as you discover misuse of your copyright protected material.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/stopping-internet-plagiarism/your-copyrights-online/3-copyright-myths/
Quote:
Copyright Myths: If You Don’t Protect Your Copyright, You Lose It

Copyright is not like trademark. Copyright has a set period of time for which it is valid and, unless you take some kind of action, you do not give up those rights.


Last edited by Blanchimont on Thu May 11, 2023 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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