Forum - View topicINTEREST: University of Manchester Investigates Academic Paper on Shotacon Manga
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Brainchild129
Posts: 307 |
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I am admittedly well over a decade removed from academia and while I do hold a BA in Anthropology, my specialty was archaeology instead of cultural antho. Even then, I've read enough academic journal articles to know that this guy's arguments and methodology are absolute garbage.
The closest he gets to discussing the ethics of the genre is chiding the audience for its "Christian" mindset about sex and masturbation almost from the get-go. Instead of interviewing people who are into this to understand the themes and images that appeal to them (aside from the obvious) and making larger statements about that particular subculture from there, his method is nothing but himself, a stack of doujin, and what amounts to a masturbation journal. Since it's predicated entirely on his own experiences and thoughts, there's no way to make any meaningful larger connections to anything else (save for the fact that you learn WAY too much about this guy's life through this paper). His conclusion has nothing to do with shotacon, instead boiling down to "well, you're never really alone when you masturbate because you think of other people and someone had to make the porn you're using" and "in that sense, isn't all sex like masturbation, in a way?" Well I'm glad that people are looking into this, although frankly it should have never made it past the peer review stage. Heck, this shouldn't have gotten past his advisor (whom I should note is Sharon Kinsella, a noted cultural anthropologist in her own right who has written multiple books about manga and other parts of Japanese culture, including erotica). Everything I have read about this man (including a previous interview with Vice) demonstrates that he is a person who is both completely out of touch with the world when it comes his studies and his "art" and someone who is a legitimate danger to underage boys and thus has no place within any respectable academic institution. |
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Netero
Posts: 173 |
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COPE - you couldn't really make this up if you tried.
So basically you want to throw out anyone at university who fails your morality test? |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 3052 Location: Email for assistance only |
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Guy literally ran a magazine with nude photos of actual boys, including going to places like SEA so he could get photos of them. Magazine was reviled by the LGBTQ community in Sweden. This is just the latest stunt by a pedophile who feels persecuted by his peers. He's adopted shota recently; prior to that he was talking about how adolescent boys needed to return to the forefront of gay sexual idolization.
This isn't your usual "I only engage in manga, no interest in actual children" situation. Since this is our fourth such "hot topic" article, I think people need a refresher of what constitutes a "bad faith" argument or one that is deliberately obfuscating information, misrepresenting reality, or like in your case, where it's obvious you don't know the context that the previous poster was discussing, like the Vice interview. http://mnei.nl/schopenhauer/38-stratagems.htm |
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yurihellsing
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Oh so another case of real before fake then was about to pull out 120 days of Sodom but hey ho. |
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SailorTralfamadore
 Posts: 499 Location: Keep Austin Weeb |
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Brainchild's point is that morality aside, it's shoddy research, which as another academic I think is accurate. You can include your own personal observations and impressions, but ideally research needs to be based on something external -- and when it comes to a fandom or reception studies paper, that means interviewing other consumers of the work. There's existing research about porn and that's what it consists of, not the author describing their own masturbation habits.
Also, universities and academic organizations do actually have ethics boards, particularly when you're dealing with "human subjects" -- which can be anything from medical experiments to conducting interviews or fieldwork. Universities can and do regularly refuse to approve research (usually at the point where it's being proposed, ideally it doesn't get this far) for failing so-called "morality tests." It's to prevent exploitation of the people who are the subjects of those studies. If you know the first thing about the history of anthropology especially, you understand why this is necessary. Also if someone uses their university's name on their research (as is standard when you get papers published) there's an implicit sense of the university approving and often funding that research (because even if they aren't putting direct funds toward the specific project, the student's place at the university is being funded). Of course they're going to be very concerned when it's used for something that is both unethical (because I'm sorry, but any honest treatment of shotacon does need to honestly engage with what it is, and not just gush about it as any other kind of "sexual expression") and poorly-conducted. |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Rather than more criticism against the researcher and papers objective, I want to simply express disbelief how the abstract even passed peer review before publication. I mean if research methods were deliberately being withheld that seems like it would and should raise further inquiries by the school and appropriate academic departments. Just seems like lots of neglect and laziness by the University.
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Netero
Posts: 173 |
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If I'm not able to form a balanced opinion of a topic raised in an article because there's also other highly relevant information I need to take into account, doesn't that make it a bad article? I think the fact that it's now been edited speaks for itself. In any case, my point still stands - it's a very slippery slope you embark on when you start to exclude people from academia (or anything else, for that matter) purely on moral grounds. |
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Porudogumaz
Posts: 18 |
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In addition to all of the awfulness regarding this man, another aspect of his paper I haven't seen being discussed is its academic dishonesty in regards to how its research was framed. The paper portrays him as being unfamiliar with shota and doujinshi until he began research for his paper and its accompanying film. However in the Vice article, he states that he was already doing translation and publishing for 2 shota artists, and this was in 2012.
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ZephyrVayu
Posts: 79 |
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I understand that diversity of thought is crucial within academia, but Karl Andersson’s beliefs and writings are disgusting and indefensible. As far as I can tell no crime has been committed (that we know of, it wouldn’t surprise me with this guy) but he’s advocating for the destigmatization of abuse towards adolescent boys. Sadly he’s not alone, and these people have been trying to invade academia and the LGBT for a while now, under the false belief that they belong there, and we have a responsibility to gatekeep against people with such dangerous ideals.
This is a man who thinks that adult male sexual attraction to adolescent boys is a natural expression of homosexuality, and this isn’t just what can be discerned from examining his work, these are his exact quotes. He’s open about this. Not only is he misrepresenting and inciting fear of gay men, and trying to normalize paedophilia, he’s doing it through a reputable organization after being peer-reviewed, and by publishing his article the university looks as if they’re supporting his views, because when you publish someone’s work that person is representing your organization. Ethical review processes exist for a reason - it’s not uncommon for academic papers to explore controversial subjects and maybe even come to a controversial conclusion, but there’s a limit and this guy crossed it. Make no mistake, Karl Andersson is not a gay man fighting for gay rights, he’s a paedophile. |
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SenpaiDuckie
ANN Community Manager
 Posts: 531 Location: PH |
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@Brainchild129I totally agree with you on Kinsella. I have read her book on Adult Manga and it has helped me with my research. Another has to be Mark McLelland. He is another wonderful researcher on Japanese culture, focusing on gender and homosexuality.
Other than that, his approach on his topic is a combination of... exhibitionism and voyeurism. As the article says, he has research participants. There's also an issue of when and where, and his participants should be psychologically stable to participate in such an... experience. |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 3052 Location: Email for assistance only |
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You used a strawman argument to assume the worst of someone who was discussing a specific situation and you're literally defending a pedophile who wrote a paper about his masturbation habits that doesn't even pass the most basic standards of academia leading to an investigation at how it was even published. Ethics are an absolutely normal way to exclude people from academia and other privileges. Try applying your logic to other occupations, like a doctor, and see if you sound reasonable. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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He wrote a Medium article in 2016 about people getting arrested for lolicon images found on their hard drives so to publish an paper announcing the content on his own - and in the UK which I believe has clearer laws about this - seems downright silly.
From said article: “[a shota manga Karl translated and publshed] was defended by the arts and culture editor of newspaper Expressen, Karin Olsson, despite she claimed to personally dislike it (what’s wrong with gay sex, Karin?)” Yes Karl, the gay is the problem here 
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3584 Location: Finland |
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I admit at first I was somewhat intrigued by the prospect of an Academic Paper deep diving into shotacon (or lolicon), but after reading about how this paper was made, and the linked articles, yeah, no, he's not the guy, and this ain't it, chief. There's a very real line between real life, and fiction. And between real people depicted, and fictional characters. And he seems to have crossed it by a mile, yuck. (I'm looking at you too, Junior Idol Japan, lest someone forget Japan has its own issues with this...)
But, never say never, I still hope, someone, someday, will publish a proper research paper on those subjects.
The case mentioned involved collector/translator Simon Lundström, and was quite a famous affair. His conviction was upheld in Svea Court of Appeals, but acquitted later in Sweden's Supreme Court, which also revoked the classification of the images at the center of the case. But you are right, UK courts and law are not as rational on this subject , and the outcome would most like have been a very different one there, as per previous cases show.
I agree with this sentence. Karin wasn't expressing any dislike for legitimate gay sex, just that shotacon didn't fall into her tastes. Otherwise, Karin has a very rational conclusion in the linked Expressen article, as it pertains to free speech; (translated by myself)
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5524 |
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From the sounds of it, the whole thing was written in bad faith. The whole paper was just an excuse to consume porn, illegal porn at that. My understanding of Shotacon, is that it is a self insert character. Going back to that time in your life where a pretty woman made you feel all strange inside, only this time around she reciprocates. Though I admit that my experience of the subject is mainly down to Mother of the Goddess' Dormitory and Honey from Ouran High School Host Club
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GasterTheGreat
 Posts: 41 |
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It depends. There's certainly people who want to project onto the boy when it comes to those scenarios. Guys who had a crush on a babysitter, neighbor, or teacher living out a fantasy. Mother of the Goddess' Dormitory is aimed at those audiences. But there are also people into it because they find the boy the sexual object and they project onto the person engaging with the boy. Characters like Honey are for the latter. Men are into it too, of course. But they'd probably be more into stuff like Boku no Pico and homosexual focused titles rather than shoujo and josei titles that delve into it from a female perspective for female audiences. |
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