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INTEREST: Persona 5 Royal's Western Release Changes Gay Characters' Depiction


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gamegodtre



Joined: 18 May 2012
Posts: 98
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Et tu atlus?
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Crispy45



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:59 pm Reply with quote
I remember when the American localizers made a big deal about changing stuff in Catherine: Full Body and then it turns out all they changed was the credits using Erica instead of Eric so they ended up pissing off both the anti and pro censorship people at them in the end.

Not sure how you could realistic change the two Shinjuku guy's dialog to make less offensive to westerners though. Considering the way the characters look and their animations changing the dialog only goes so far. I guess they wont be as blatantly horny for a high schooler but still extremely flamboyant. Or in other words, it won't be enough and people will still complain about it being problematic while the other side will complain they changed anything at all and end up pleasing no one in the end yet again.
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Watanabefan



Joined: 02 Oct 2017
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:10 pm Reply with quote
It's nice they're changing it, but hopefully the Persona series in general moves away from gags like this. The "No offense Kanji, but we're not comfortable because you might sexually assault us!" scene in P4 really stood out to me when I replayed P4G last year.
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getumbuck



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:12 pm Reply with quote
This is one of the few times, I'm alright with a change being made. I honestly hated that scene in the game. If anything I think Persona 4 was a step in the right direction, with Kanji and Naoto.
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Mr. Dent



Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Thank god, to be honest. But changes in localization are only one thing, I think it would be more meaningful if Atlus stopped making these awkward, cringe jokes in the first place.
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DavetheUsher



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 505
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:36 pm Reply with quote
getumbuck wrote:
This is one of the few times, I'm alright with a change being made. I honestly hated that scene in the game. If anything I think Persona 4 was a step in the right direction, with Kanji and Naoto.


I dunno about that.l Laughing I see people still complain about Naoto and Kanji to this day while these two side character stopped being talked about like a week after the game came out

Watanabefan wrote:
It's nice they're changing it, but hopefully the Persona series in general moves away from gags like this.


Doubt it. These guys had to fight tooth and nail to even be allowed to change the dialog for the western version. The Japanese side loves this style of comedy and won't be changing it anytime soon I imagine. These jokes are always funny and I'm glad they're still allowed to do them.
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getumbuck



Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 198
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:04 pm Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:


Doubt it. These guys had to fight tooth and nail to even be allowed to change the dialog for the western version. The Japanese side loves this style of comedy and won't be changing it anytime soon I imagine. These jokes are always funny and I'm glad they're still allowed to do them.


I found nothing remotely funny about that joke. It was honestly my least favorite part of the game.
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Watanabefan



Joined: 02 Oct 2017
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:09 pm Reply with quote
DavetheUsher wrote:
I'm glad they're still allowed to do them.


I'm sure you are. I've seen this discussion play out on this site like a dozen times.


Last edited by Watanabefan on Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Narutofreak1412



Joined: 22 Feb 2015
Posts: 338
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:10 pm Reply with quote
I don't think a few people feeling not comfortable with a dialogue justifies begging the original producers to change it. If that's how they originally wanted to portray those characters and play a joke with it, just go with it and translate it accurately. All that political correctness nowadays really annoys me, like you can't make something that makes absolutely everyone feel always comfortable, there's always something people will complain about, be it the portrayal of genders, races, sexual orientations or other things. Heck, there are even people calling out animal cruelty in games like monster hunter xD
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2486
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:21 pm Reply with quote
I'm against this. Don't rewrite the scene, let the entire world know Atlus, its writers and artists are all homophobic piece of shits instead. Or remove it. Going halfway is terrible.
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El Hermano



Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 450
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Disappointing, but not surprising as we see more and more examples of stuff like this. All the more reason to encourage other people to learn Japanese. It's very useful and something all anime fans should try to do. It opens up so many new worlds to you if you don't have to rely on translations, whether official or unofficial.

Mr. Dent wrote:
Thank god, to be honest. But changes in localization are only one thing, I think it would be more meaningful if Atlus stopped making these awkward, cringe jokes in the first place.


Don't be mistaken. Atlus themselves do not care one bit, or at least the Persona developers don't. They're not the ones trying to make amends for anything. This is entirely on the western localizers trying to change things to appease western critics. As someone who imported and played The Royal last year, this version features far more content that westerners are going to find objectionable, I guarantee it. For example, if people took issue with how the game handled the sexualization of characters like Anne, they're going to explode when they see the new stuff they added in such as spoiler[ the new fanservice scenes with Cognitive Shiho.in Kamoshida's Palace]

I never understood the point of censorship, especially in this day and age when information is so easily accessible and you can't hide anything from being public knowledge. I mean, if it's to appease the ESRB and get a game on store shelves that's one thing and I understand the logic behind it. But in cases like this you know the scene in question is about two men trying to sexually assault Ryuji no matter what the English version ends up saying. The fact there's articles on this everywhere is going to make sure everyone knows that scene is about two men sexually assault Ryuji. There's zero possibility of people not knowing the truth of the scene at this stage, so if you still buy this game you're purposely putting money in the pockets of the people who wrote those jokes you dislike so they can go on to make more games with more content you dislike so it just seems odd, if not hypocritical. I'm genuinely curious what people who are in favor of these changes think.
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Wtv



Joined: 02 Nov 2014
Posts: 157
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:25 pm Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
I'm against this. Don't rewrite the scene, let the entire world know Atlus, its writers and artists are all homophobic piece of shits instead. Or remove it. Going halfway is terrible.


I agree with the first point. Let them know what the game is, and if they don't like it, they don't buy it. Like I won't.
I don't get why people still can't admit what the Persona series really is like. Some people even call it "progressive".
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3rdImpakt



Joined: 03 Apr 2014
Posts: 118
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:35 pm Reply with quote
killjoy_the wrote:
Atlus, its writers and artists are all homophobic piece of shits


Just a reminder the people complaining actually think this way.
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OncelostLu



Joined: 14 Mar 2013
Posts: 113
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:04 pm Reply with quote
Censored. Canceled.
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Replica_Rabbit



Joined: 23 Aug 2015
Posts: 354
Location: Portland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:18 pm Reply with quote
El Hermano wrote:
Disappointing, but not surprising as we see more and more examples of stuff like this. All the more reason to encourage other people to learn Japanese. It's very useful and something all anime fans should try to do. It opens up so many new worlds to you if you don't have to rely on translations, whether official or unofficial.

Mr. Dent wrote:
Thank god, to be honest. But changes in localization are only one thing, I think it would be more meaningful if Atlus stopped making these awkward, cringe jokes in the first place.


Don't be mistaken. Atlus themselves do not care one bit, or at least the Persona developers don't. They're not the ones trying to make amends for anything. This is entirely on the western localizers trying to change things to appease western critics. As someone who imported and played The Royal last year, this version features far more content that westerners are going to find objectionable, I guarantee it. For example, if people took issue with how the game handled the sexualization of characters like Anne, they're going to explode when they see the new stuff they added in such as spoiler[ the new fanservice scenes with Cognitive Shiho.in Kamoshida's Palace]

I never understood the point of censorship, especially in this day and age when information is so easily accessible and you can't hide anything from being public knowledge. I mean, if it's to appease the ESRB and get a game on store shelves that's one thing and I understand the logic behind it. But in cases like this you know the scene in question is about two men trying to sexually assault Ryuji no matter what the English version ends up saying. The fact there's articles on this everywhere is going to make sure everyone knows that scene is about two men sexually assault Ryuji. There's zero possibility of people not knowing the truth of the scene at this stage, so if you still buy this game you're purposely putting money in the pockets of the people who wrote those jokes you dislike so they can go on to make more games with more content you dislike so it just seems odd, if not hypocritical. I'm genuinely curious what people who are in favor of these changes think.

This is more nuanced. The people who know about the scene (and don't like it) want to buy the game because they like the gameplay and story. They probably would criticize the scene, but they will still like the game overall.
For me, I'm so indifferent about this.
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