Forum - View topicREVIEW: Cross Ange: Rondo of Angel and Dragon Blu-Ray 1
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DmonHiro
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"use of undefined rather than defined nudity." Yeah... that also struck me as weird, especially considering the director. I mean... why not just go all the way?
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3019 |
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It's really hard for me to reconcile "bigotry and prejudice can turn normal, productive members of society into mere cogs within an unjust machine" with "here's a sexy scene wherein a 16 year old girl gets a body cavity search." Pick a tone, Yoshiharu Ashino.
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4157 |
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I watched the sub, and the dub, I really enjoy the show in both languages... including Kira VD as Salia; It's easy to forget what she can do as times and she was rather subtle as the uncertain and wavering Salia. The only point in the first half where the character was in control of herself was when she partaking in her hobby.
Wait, Sentai used that scene as her cast introduction video; What a coincidence... The pacing was fine, the story was fine, the characters were fine, the exploitation was reserved at times but fully there in intent; Honestly, leaving these things up to the audience's imagination is something of a lost art and it's probably the series strongest point. It's not that the show's that perverted, it just makes you think it is. I love a hero/heroine I can enjoy watching progress and I enjoyed the adventures of Ange since episode one. The sarcastic "character as actor" next episode previews helped especially when Ange went through her loner period. I'll chose to wait to talk about its socio-politics in depth until the second half myself but I can say that the situation is simpler than it looks but more complicated in its implications. For example, the first half never implies what is the normal, it just infers it from social prejudices. But then never develops any of them, leaving all the humans a little hollow... spoiler[All the magic users take everything in stride, don't they? Viv was more shocked at being a dragon than Momoka was at anything else, from her mistress being a mech riding dragon slayer... oh yeah, there are dragons... to being bought and sold like property. She's not dumb, she must have known they were going to shot her once she was out of Ange's life but even as two armed guards took her away... kind of past her ride home... she just didn't really care.]. One way of looking at this is magic makes people this way; The only time they come alive is when they have a "not one of us" right under their nose. Otherwise, they're benign lotus eaters. But the problem is that the target of their hatred is actually counter to their reality since the Norma can cancel out their magic. And every time their "dream" reality gets broken, they're not happy. I don't think this is a pessimistic view of humanity, it's a natural one. Have you ever tried to take a dog's bowl away from him while he's eating? Yeah, he probably won't be happy either. The delicious implications of why all this is saved for the second half. This is the same flimsy comparison that Marvel's X-Men tries to do or as some people try to make it but there's a world of difference from one man declaring an entire race to be different and inferior for no reason other than he said so to being evolutionary different and superior to the point of species elimination. This is more cro magnon versus neanderthal. Guess who won that one? |
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Izanagi009
 Posts: 465 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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Dear Mr. Martin
I personally disagree with your assessment of the fanservice elements of Cross Ange, though I will confess I was one of the ones who reacts negatively to the "cavity search" First, the elephant in the room, the first episode scene. The fact that it's shot like a prison exploitation movie speaks somewhat negatively to the director's intension for the show. In my personal view, most violent media that explore persecution of a group well do so in a way that's more bloody and grim than sensationalist. Cross Ange, to me, crosses a line from grim and sobering to attempting to make the audience feel aroused by the actions due to the camera. The camera during the scene focused on the breasts and butt rather than the faces of the victims and perpetrators or whole body shots. This focus seems off to me if the show was trying to be serious though this may be a case of trying to have a cake and eat it at the same time. As for the other fanservice scenes, my main issue with them is a similar issue to stuff in Akame ga Kill, it's too much of a tonal shift and detracts from the serious content of the show sometimes. To use an example from the discussion thread when the show came out, it's like sticking Marida Cruz into a bunny suit, it's dissonant and lessens the impact of the scene or character. However, I will concede on the animation of the fights, it's well done though I personally feel like it suffers from a reuse problem. Izanagi009
I'm not so sure about that assessment. In film, the camera dictates what a person is supposed to see and directly or indirectly through the information conveyed or not conveys affects the emotions of the crowd. So what emotions are the camera supposed to invoke when we have a violent cavity search punctuated with shots of the breasts and butt with a scene of lesbian fanservice before a shot of the heroine broken (she's not that broken by the second episode which makes me see the whole act as pointless)? I would argue that the director was trying to invoke sexual arousal during the assault scene due to the focus on sexual body features rather than the faces or whole body shots of the scene. Last edited by Izanagi009 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RANGIT
Posts: 80 |
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Emily Neves did sing the insert song, at least in episode 12. You're right in that it isn't really "dubbed" since it was sang in the original language. I actually wasn't sure when I first heard it. Only found out when she mentioned on Twitter that she sang in Cross Ange.
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Angel M Cazares
 Posts: 5499 Location: Iscandar |
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I am not so sure about that. If the producers of the show don't want people to think that Ange was sexually abused it is in their best interests to have Sentai "clarify" that it was not rape but rather a cavity search. I ended up liking Cross Ange enough to want to buy the BD's, but I am still convinced that Ange was raped and that the whole scene at the end of episode 1 was done with very poor taste and judgement. |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2417 |
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It just looks really off. I'd rather have the steam and stuff back.
Thats some crazy reaching... You're just seeing what you want. No rape is shown nor is it ever mentioned in series. The script almost certainly required approval. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5528 Location: Mexico |
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I don't mean to sound rude, but was there no one else willing to review this show other than Theron? I mean no offense to him, but he already covered the show in the daily streaming, and given how controversial the series is, it would've been interesting to see a review by someone who would actually address that making it a "cavity exploration" does not make it any less "problematic" than if it were actual rape. I like reading different points of view, especially when it comes to such divisive series, to me that's more interesting than reading the same person about the same series repeatedly
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meiam
Posts: 3447 |
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Pretty unrelated to the show, but like the review mentioned story of good prince/princess getting deposited from the throne are really common, are there any that actually took the time to explore the ramification of monarchy and hereditary government? I can even remember some where the monarchy is overthrown by some form of elected official where the elected member are the evil character and the prince/princess end up fighting against them "for the people" (so that they can rule un elected again) which I always find hilarious.
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Philmister978
Posts: 331 |
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I can only assume it was because he did the daily streams that he was chosen. But I can't say for sure. I agree though, it'd be more interesting if someone else did review this series, because while it was enjoyable in some ways, there were some pretty noticeable flaws (like some plot points being dropped harder than the Para-Mail in episode 3; or the uneven 2D animation quality and reuse of animation elements). The nudity being another major sticking point as others said, and that too took out of the plot more often than not (though I can't tell if this can be blamed on Ashino, Fukuda, or both). Can't say I'm too surprised they look like dolls without the clothing though, considering the first opening did that already, so that much I was expecting. |
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zrnzle500
 Posts: 3768 |
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Yeah, I can't imagine any of the other reviewers want to touch this one, if their initial reviews of the show are any indication. And of the reviewers that mention it at all anymore, none aside from Theron have anything positive to say. I can understand that, and that is coming from someone who agrees with Theron's assessment of the show. |
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Angel M Cazares
Posts: 5499 Location: Iscandar |
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That is what I am saying. Even if Sentai wanted to use the word rape, the licensor has to approve/allow it. Like it or not, the licensor has the power manipulate the message. |
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FilthyCasual
Posts: 2368 |
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I'm 99% certain that no other reviewer even watched past the first episode. |
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Jonny Mendes
 Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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Im not usually a fan of mecha anime but after i had a friend tell me about this edgy anime i give it a try and is was a nice surprise. it had good animation and great battles.
After that i notice that had weekly reviews and was them when i notice the storm about it. In my opinion the more objectionable scenes were used more for development of the plot than simple titillation. Ange was a princess and all those situations made her a complete different person. Yes, that scenes can make some people uncomfortable, but this is that kind of anime (fan service heavy, sometimes dark, violent and not caring about offending some sensibilities). Great music too. And yes, that kind of nudity have no excuse to be used in this age. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Let me point towards the elephant in the room. It is no secret that other reviewers rage-quit after the controversial first episode. They can marathon the entire series (without the damned light bars), but they risk liking it (or even, just not hating it) and they have a reputation that they fear could be "tarnished". I remember one political cartoonist saying he once became friend with a politician and that being a big mistake for him, because he could no longer satirize him, same here, it is easier to hate what you do not really know. IMO Cross Ange director played us like a fiddle, he made some controversy that gave him some headlines (which is important nowadays in a cluttered environment of new titles) which in the end did not affect the story he wanted to tell. A question for Theron, did they ever explained how you know who could survive spoiler[his suicidal attack with plastic explosives]? I suppose they could not show it on broadcast TV or they did not managed to finish the animation in time. |
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