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This is a question for the older anime fans. Like the ones who been around when a VHS of ranma was 40 bucks and when you were lucky to get a 3rd gen tape from japan with no subs and no translator.

I was wondering what do you all think of the fandom now. worse yet good? great and getting better? capitalized and evil? no longer special?

I really like talking to the older fans at conventions because its like hearing a good war story from your granparents and they always have cool stuff and stories from back then.

Well, I'm sorta old school. I started watching anime back 2000.
My main source of anime was Blockbuster on VHS. Here I got to watch a LOT of old stuff(Any one remember Orion Home Video, Streamline, or Urban Vision?).

There's nothing like experiencing MD Geist dubbed on VHS with VA that won't admit to their own names.

SlyphGlitch wrote:

Well, I'm sorta old school. I started watching anime back 2000.
My main source of anime was Blockbuster on VHS. Here I got to watch a LOT of old stuff(Any one remember Orion Home Video, Streamline, or Urban Vision?).

There's nothing like experiencing MD Geist dubbed on VHS with VA that won't admit to their own names.

i started then like that too. i got used tapes from blockbuster and discounted sailormoon and anime vhs from there. i got my first copy of animerica extra there too.

streamline i heard of on the dvd otaku unite but thats it.

SlyphGlitch wrote:

(Any one remember Orion Home Video, Streamline, or Urban Vision

All of the above. Urban Vision is still out there though.

I'm a late old-schooler myself. Grew up with Robotech, Voltron and Transor-Z. I remember renting VHS tapes of Ranma and watching Akira, Ghost in the Shell and Vampire Hunter D because that was all that was available. I never had the right connections to be into fan-subs so until very recently all the anime I ever saw was legit tapes, DVDs or TV. Over 99% still is. I don't know that I can comment on fandom specifically, but the industry as a whole is a definite improvement over the bad old days. More selection, better prices, easy availability... Some problems remain, but they aren't new. People talk about the editting and Cardcaptors/One Piece scale changes and wish for the 'good old days'. Let me remind you that it was always like that. I said I grew up watching Robotech and Voltron, remember? People herald them for making anime poplular and profitable. We remember them fondly. If they were made today we'd hear as many complaints as we do about the treatment the CCS dub got.

Not everything has improved over the years, but nothing has gotten worse either. At least that's the view from my couch, surrounded by almost 1600 anime DVDs. That couldn't have happened in the old days.

SlyphGlitch wrote:

Well, I'm sorta old school. I started watching anime back 2000.
My main source of anime was Blockbuster on VHS. Here I got to watch a LOT of old stuff(Any one remember Orion Home Video, Streamline, or Urban Vision?).

There's nothing like experiencing MD Geist dubbed on VHS with VA that won't admit to their own names.

Good heavens, 2000 is considered "old school" now? I started watching anime in 1995 and I still feel like I'm new to it compared to the Robotech crowd. My old Streamline and co. VHS tapes have been slowly replaced by DVDs over the years, but I still have a few remaining, like Windaria and 3x3 Eyes.

I've only been watching anime for about six years now. And I have Toonami to thank for that. The premiere of Tenchi Muyo on 07/03/00 is what got me hooked on anime.

Hehe, I'd hardly call 2000 'old school' myself. I feel like a newbie as I only got into anime seriously in the past three years, but I guess you could classify old school as before 2000 or so. That's about when most of the animation switched over to computers right? Actually, that's not too bad of a line to draw, at least there's some sort of technical difference.

I'm sorry, but there is no way 2000 can be considered "old school." I started watching Voltron as a kid around '84, and there are people on this site who began earlier than that.

Being from Kentucky, I'm afraid I haven't really known much about fandom until very recently. 'Round these parts, we don't take to kindly to that cartoon porn--sorry, channeling Bill Hicks. There are no conventions, NKU has no Anime or Otaku club. Anyone I have talked to about it thinks it's weird that a grown man watches "cartoons."

The advent of DVD certainly made life a lot easier, but recently, I get the feeling that the new breed vs. the old is causing quite a bit of harm towards quality of product. A lot of the older people seem so unapologetically anti-anything that would attract a wider audience. This forces the fanbase into a little corner that can't expand--can't bring in more money, can't bring in more diverse titles. I also fear a lot of them download shows, and then don't buy the DVDs that come out over here, causing those of us who don't want to download to get fewer of those quality shows. In keeping with that, the newer fans, who seem to be making up a larger and larger percentage of the total, only watch crap anyway. Look at the AS ratings. They were floundering until they put the violent, redundant and lowest common denominator-oriented Trinity Blood and Bleach on--two shows that I have basically already seen, done better, several times before.

I'm between wanting the older people to make it more safe for the newer, thus expanding the market and the amount of anime that is brought over. But, I rather they didn't if all we get then focuses on the newer fans' taste in crap. Maybe all my concerns are simply derived from my natural tendency towards pessimism, but Monster still hasn't been licensed yet.

Hey come on now I happen to enjoy that "crap" varmintx. Very Happy

I'd say that anybody whose been into anime since the early 90's and back are the real "old schoolers", I don't see how 2000's is old school.

My first exposure to anime actually goes as far back as the mid 80's (possibly earlier). That was a time when 2 shows in particular caught my eye and I was already old enough to be cognizant of their disimilarity with American produced cartoons. The two that I can name are Starblazers and Battle of the Planets (known in Japan as Uchuu Senkan Yamato and Gatchaman, respectively). There are other vague memories of various robot and hero shows which strike up images similar to many of Yoshiyuki Tomino's early mecha works, but I can't name any specific shows (stuff I've probably seen as early as the late 70's). But I was really moved by the style and the deeper, compelling story lines that was all but absent from toons like Roadrunner and Popeye (which I also loved anyway).
So I guess that puts me into the pre-Robotech crowd, but I have some friends from my Hawaii anime club days that are even more old school than me.

But anyway, I do have a "war story" so to speak regarding some of my early fan experiences. When I first started buying anime in the 90's one small, fledgling company that I found by the name of Right Stuf caught my eye (I saw an ad in a copy of Animerica). This was back when their catalog of their entire inventory was a 1/2 sheet sized booklet with only B&W pictures on the inside. I think I still have my first tRSI catalog. But anyway, I had troubles with them at first. Something I ordered never arrived and I complained about it but I had no proof. But they sent a duplicate copy for free since I was a new customer. But then it happened again and I think it seemed to them like I kept claiming that my shipments got lost in order to get free items. I think there was someone working there that was convinced that was the case because many years went by after that without a smooth transaction from Right Stuf. I kept ordering from them because I liked their selection and prices but most of all I wanted to prove to them I wasn't a crooked customer and that I never did anything wrong. Maybe it had to do with me living in Hawaii, I don't know but eventually that sales rep got fired I guess since the problems started to go away.

Well, I got hooked on Project A-ko and Dominion Tank Police in the waybackwhen of the early 90's, and folks seem to refer to me as an old school fan so I suppose it fits, but it was the diehards that came out of the Speed Racer, Star Blazers, and Robotech eras that I think get too little respect in our community these days.

Quite honestly, I do feel some of the camaraderie, and a bit of the focus, is leaving the hobby these days as anime becomes an easier medium to enjoy. I notice a lot fewer conversations at conventions, a lot less emphasis on meeting new people and sharing the love of the hobby with them.

There's also far FAR too many sanctimonius a**hole jonny-come-latelies these days that are taking the tacked on angst of many modern series to heart and putting on airs because "anime is so much deeper".

This, my young friends, is UTTER BULLSHIT. Let's be honest; boobs, bots, and boom-booms sold anime to us in the 80's and 90's, and they're still great today and there's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Why, why, why, why, why do we insist that anime can't be fun? Can't be an indulgence, an escape?

Why do we have to take this great hobby so seriously with endless debates over what direction the American market is taking, what's the true distinction of anime, is the expansion of the market a good thing, are fansubs past their prime?

Doesn't anyone watch anime because they enjoy it anymore, or are we all too intellectual and hip to enjoy a TV show? I've spent well over a decade in fandom, and I can analyze, articulate, and appreciate the artistry of anime shoulder to shoulder with some of the best, but it's not necessary.

Folks, the next time you sit down to watch another maudlin moment in Full Metal Alchemist, or Inu Yasha, or whatever other angsty flashfest you might have found on the torrents this week, I wish you'd pause and remember that, sometimes, you have to wonder if Biiko's cold in her battle suit.

Craeyst Raygal wrote:

There's also far FAR too many sanctimonius a**hole jonny-come-latelies these days that are taking the tacked on angst of many modern series to heart and putting on airs because "anime is so much deeper".

This, my young friends, is UTTER BULLSHIT. Let's be honest; boobs, bots, and boom-booms sold anime to us in the 80's and 90's, and they're still great today and there's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Why, why, why, why, why do we insist that anime can't be fun? Can't be an indulgence, an escape?

Why do we have to take this great hobby so seriously with endless debates over what direction the American market is taking, what's the true distinction of anime, is the expansion of the market a good thing, are fansubs past their prime?

Doesn't anyone watch anime because they enjoy it anymore, or are we all too intellectual and hip to enjoy a TV show? I've spent well over a decade in fandom, and I can analyze, articulate, and appreciate the artistry of anime shoulder to shoulder with some of the best, but it's not necessary.

Folks, the next time you sit down to watch another maudlin moment in Full Metal Alchemist, or Inu Yasha, or whatever other angsty flashfest you might have found on the torrents this week, I wish you'd pause and remember that, sometimes, you have to wonder if Biiko's cold in her battle suit.

Sorry Craeyst, I think you're full of quite a lot of shit on this one. It depends what you mean by "deep", if you're looking for a comparison between Hemmingway and My Little Snow Fairy Sugar, of course there's no comparison; and if you're alluding to the people that think that all anime is deep, or inherently "better" because it's anime, you're right there too. However, if you're referring to people like my mom, you're absolutely dead wrong. My mom has seen a grand total of three anime shows, none of them in their entirety (well, Princess Mononoke too, so four; and one of them is Naruto); and despite the fact that she will never choose to watch them, she has an extremely high respect for the medium. She recognizes that unlike nearly any American TV show I can name, great thought and conscious effort is put into making many anime intellectually interesting on one of many levels. There are most definitely anime's share of "fudge" shows (both new and old), and there are certainly a great many emotional moments, but if you're here trying to claim that something like Hoshi no Koe or Air is 'maudlin' just because it is highly emotional, you're absolutely full of shit.

I'm not going to claim that Inu Yasha is a super deep show, but if you compare American TV, there's really not much to compare it to. CSI? Hardly. Friends? As if. Sienfield? Uh... no. The attraction for me (and so many other people) isn't just that anime has robots and nurses and shit, it's that there is a well thought out story that generally appeals to the subject without any such visual appeal (ala manga... though, even this medium is far from a novel form).

I for one, think anime is pure fun, I enjoy it as a form of entertainment for when I come home from work, or as something to do in between parties on the weekend; but I don't enjoy it solely for the robots and explosions, a large reason I enjoy it is for the story as well, and the obvious thought and effort on the behalf of the creator. What I can't undestand is, what's so wrong with 'boobs, bots, and boom-booms' not being the only appealing factor? Can't we find it enjoyable for other reasons? (I know I for one almost wet my pants with joy learning about Stellvia's plot)

Craeyst Raygal wrote:

Well, I got hooked on Project A-ko and Dominion Tank Police in the waybackwhen of the early 90's, and folks seem to refer to me as an old school fan so I suppose it fits, but it was the diehards that came out of the Speed Racer, Star Blazers, and Robotech eras that I think get too little respect in our community these days.

Quite honestly, I do feel some of the camaraderie, and a bit of the focus, is leaving the hobby these days as anime becomes an easier medium to enjoy. I notice a lot fewer conversations at conventions, a lot less emphasis on meeting new people and sharing the love of the hobby with them.

There's also far FAR too many sanctimonius a**hole jonny-come-latelies these days that are taking the tacked on angst of many modern series to heart and putting on airs because "anime is so much deeper".

This, my young friends, is UTTER BULLSHIT. Let's be honest; boobs, bots, and boom-booms sold anime to us in the 80's and 90's, and they're still great today and there's NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. Why, why, why, why, why do we insist that anime can't be fun? Can't be an indulgence, an escape?

Why do we have to take this great hobby so seriously with endless debates over what direction the American market is taking, what's the true distinction of anime, is the expansion of the market a good thing, are fansubs past their prime?

Doesn't anyone watch anime because they enjoy it anymore, or are we all too intellectual and hip to enjoy a TV show? I've spent well over a decade in fandom, and I can analyze, articulate, and appreciate the artistry of anime shoulder to shoulder with some of the best, but it's not necessary.

Folks, the next time you sit down to watch another maudlin moment in Full Metal Alchemist, or Inu Yasha, or whatever other angsty flashfest you might have found on the torrents this week, I wish you'd pause and remember that, sometimes, you have to wonder if Biiko's cold in her battle suit.

This "young" grasshopper sits at your feet in awe, sempai.

I have listened to your words and will take them to heart!

Seriously, when I watch the various series that I like, I have to admit I miss the "serious" undertones probably 80% of the time; just because I'm into the story. Sometimes I do catch the serious points that the writers/directors are trying to make but usually it goes over my head until I read something about what they were getting at.

Quote:

sometimes, you have to wonder if Biiko's cold in her battle suit.

I've wondered about Priss and the other Bubblegum girls myself. And if they spend long hours in those suits or in a Gundam...where do they pee?

Selenta wrote

Quote:

I for one, think anime is pure fun, I enjoy it as a form of entertainment for when I come home from work, or as something to do in between parties on the weekend; but I don't enjoy it solely for the robots and explosions, a large reason I enjoy it is for the story as well, and the obvious thought and effort on the behalf of the creator. What I can't undestand is, what's so wrong with 'boobs, bots, and boom-booms' not being the only appealing factor? Can't we find it enjoyable for other reasons? (I know I for one almost wet my pants with joy learning about Stellvia's plot)

Oh, hell...you're right too

Quote:

It depends what you mean by "deep", if you're looking for a comparison between Hemmingway and My Little Snow Fairy Sugar, of course there's no comparison; and if you're alluding to the people that think that all anime is deep, or inherently "better" because it's anime, you're right there too.

I think that Craeyst IS talking about the people who think that all anime is deep. And they're annoying too. Sometimes what's on the surface is on the surface. Not everyone writes like Miyazaki...or wants to.

Last edited by selenta on Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

LydiaDianne wrote:

I think that Craeyst IS talking about the people who think that all anime is deep. And they're annoying too. Sometimes what's on the surface is on the surface. Not everyone writes like Miyazaki...or wants to.

Oh, that's not the impression I got, but I've certainly misunderstood things before. If that's the case, then he's wasting his breath, those people aren't even worth talking about to begin with. Just look at my 'friend' Fox I mentioned the other day if you happened to read that thread.

EDIT:

Quote:

I've wondered about Priss and the other Bubblegum girls myself. And if they spend long hours in those suits or in a Gundam...where do they pee?

In a bottle or a tube I'm sure, just like astronauts dattebayo.

selenta wrote:

LydiaDianne wrote:

I think that Craeyst IS talking about the people who think that all anime is deep. And they're annoying too. Sometimes what's on the surface is on the surface. Not everyone writes like Miyazaki...or wants to.

Oh, that's not the impression I got, but I've certainly misunderstood things before. If that's the case, then he's wasting his breath, those people aren't even worth talking about to begin with. Just look at my 'friend' Fox I mentioned the other day if you happened to read that thread.

I've misunderstood things quite often myself and insert foot in mouth alot. Perhaps what Craeyst said can be interpreted in several ways. And as for the people who think all anime is deep, treat 'em like you would the rabid fan boy/girl who focuses on one and only one anime...RUN LIKE HELL IN THE OTHER DIRECTION Exclamation

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