Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Nobunaga Concerto
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KutovoiAnton
 Posts: 962 Location: Vladimir, Russia |
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I'm STRONGLY disagree with a review. It's probably the best series of the season almost in every department.
Also, no, Saburo DID NOT change a history. Battle at Okehazama happened in Dengakuhazama. Okehazama is a village near it. |
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laureninspace
 Posts: 59 |
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I looked it up and boy do I feel silly! That's strange that they call it the Battle at Okehazama if it actually was at Dengakuhazama. A little bit like how some people in the United States call the Battle of Bull Run the Battle of Manassas—to somebody unfamiliar they might seem to be two different battles. I still believe history is going to change, what with a modern-day high schooler at the helm of Nobunaga's campaign and all. For one thing, history shows that Nobunaga ought to be assassinated pretty soon, and I can't see the show letting them just kill off the main character! |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3674 |
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I've understood the show to already have revealed that there is no history to change, and Saburo's actions are what creates the historical ones of Nobunaga. Mitsuhide is entirely invented by Saburo's arrival. And because of Mitsuhide's face, Saburo doesn't have to be the one assassinated to make the history still work.
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bastek66
Posts: 119 |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5530 Location: Mexico |
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Nobunaga lived in the 16th century
Welcome to entertainment. Just because it's been done to death doesn't mean it can't be done right, and Concerto is easily the best rendition of Nobunaga's life I've seen in Anime
That is THE ENTIRE POINT. That the real Nobunaga was a sickly unambitious man, and that the reason the History books portray him as a crazy fool is because Saburo took his place. Time paradox alright, but that's the basic premise of the show, for crying out loud
Because Saburo hasn't changed history ONCE. You make various remarks through the different episodes' reviews about how Concerto is single-handedly dismissing historical facts, but I have no idea of where you're getting that idea from. In fact, Concerto is probably the most historically accurate Nobunaga anime out there (with the exception of the time-slip thing, of course). You mention this a lot in regards to Hideyoshi, but the show has depicted his background with amazing accuracy, up to his relation with the Imagawa and his rising up in the Oda ranks. About his for now intent to betray Oda, I find it an interesting twist, and am eager to see how it goes, since historically spoiler[Hideyoshi is the one to take down Mitsuhide after the latter betrays and kills Nobunaga]. I'm confident the show will follow history as it's been doing right now, although I am not sure of how they're going to go about Nobunaga's historical death, but I honestly doubt Hideyoshi will see his vengeful intentions through when all is said and done. [/spoiler]
Saburo is conciously trying to not change history, because he believes it would affect the present/future if he did, I'm pretty sure he mentions it in the first episode. As for other time-travelers, Saburo used his father-in-law/present-day policeman as a medium to introduce guns into Japan, one of historical Nobunaga's most famous war innovations. I disagree on almost every point of the review, I honestly find this one of the best animes of the season. I will agree that the animation is very weird and hard to get used to, but I don't find it headache inducing in the least, and, as you've said, the background art is gorgeous. The latest episode also had some beautiful designs for all of Nobunaga's retainers' armors. And the ending theme is one of my favorites of the season, the lyrics and the imagery are extremely powerful I also definitely agree and am still feeling bugged by how the burning of Saburo's history book was presented in such ominous dun dun duuuuuun cliffhanger, but the matter was never even addressed. Seeing how he relied so heavily on the book to follow in historical Nobunaga's footsteps, it also begs the question of how he's been able to continue the deed without it. I really wish there had been some sort of acknowledgment about the loss of the book, but it's a fault I'm willing to let pass because everything else in the show is so immensely satisfying for a Sengoku Jidai geek like myself. |
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laureninspace
Posts: 59 |
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I knew it was the 1500s, but for some reason I thought centuries went the other way. I'm making the correction ASAP. |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3674 |
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He may very well have freaked out about the history book, but there are significant time leaps between episodes, so we just didn't see it. It may have been interesting to see how he reacts to setbacks, but judging from what we've seen so far, he probably just shrugged and carried on. It helped reinforce the point that this isn't just his effort to recreate history, but rather that he is building it the first time around.
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laureninspace
Posts: 59 |
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See, that is one of the things about the show that bothers me. The book was telegraphed as an important relic. In previous episodes we've seen Saburo's items from the future (notably the porn book) play a role in the plot. I can't imagine why they haven't revisited this yet. Actually, I feel the same way about the the historical stuff. I realize that a lot of the show's fans are major sengoku jidai buffs who can just fill in the blanks, but for me it's easy to get lost between the time jumps. It's weird when characters just disappear or suddenly appear with little introduction. It's weird when smaller plots get forgotten—and the cause is just that time has passed and we can't be bothered anymore. You could make an argument that the reason I'm having a difficult time with Nobunaga Concerto is that it's not for people like me, only history buffs. However, if the show has such a high bar of entry that people without the requisite education can't understand it well, it's not going to earn widespread popularity, and I'm not going to review it as if it were something that will. |
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Fronzel
Posts: 1906 |
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Is Nobunaga remembered in Japan in the positive fashion that George Washington is in America? I've seen more than one pulp portrayal where he's allied with demons.
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beieidaisuki
Posts: 1 |
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I made an account just to comment on this thread.
This is easily the best series of the season for me, and tons better than any other premises that involve Nobunaga and/or the Sengoku period for me. And no, I'm not a "history buff" as you put it; I know only the barest details, but this show really makes me want to know the period better.
I don't get why you'd expect it to go like that. Saburo is laid-back and he has no self-important motives; he just vaguely knew that Nobunaga was very famous and an important figure in Japanese history, and that was why he wanted to conquer Japan. He's not trying to change history (and the fun part was that he unknowingly did not). Much like Hajime in Gatchaman Crowds, he's unpredictable and has a good heart, and that's what endears him and this show to me. I agree with how fabulous the backgrounds and cinematography are. Almost every scene is beautifully arranged; it's just like watching a movie. The animation style is pretty unusual, but I got used to it in the second episode. The ending theme was really well-done, both the song and visual hit just the spot (and boy, did I scream/squee when I saw the sixth episode's ending). |
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meepsheeps
 Posts: 399 |
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I actually have no complaints about the animation/style other than that it's a bit distracting at times when characters move (because of the 3d effect they use). It's just gorgeous in general, the text animations (like the captions at the bottom), the cinematography, everything. To top it off, the music is grand.
THIS. All of the episodes have been amazing so far. Not disappointed at all. Last edited by meepsheeps on Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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References the whole series to date
I wasn't a fan of this period or Japanese history at all for the most part, so I went into it vaguely knowing who one or two of these people were. BUT it's prompted me to look it all up on Wiki and chase references for hours just so I could compare it to the anime because I think what it's doing is so cool. I think it's brilliantly done, because it's the opposite of what we all expected. Everyone thought "guy goes back and changes history", but instead we're watching this guy inadvertently create our history. This is to me like documenting the chance mutations of evolution that lead to what we are today. It's showing that our history isn't something planned and solid and fact like we tend to think, but a series of coincidences and luck that could have easily turned the other way but didn't. It brought this history to life for me in a way no other period series did (which is why I've never made it past episode one of any other history series). I'm having so much fun watching this. And I love the animation- it's gorgeous and gives the show a feel of art at the time. This is one of my favorite shows of the season. |
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Lupica
Posts: 90 |
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Still loving this series and still disappointed by these reviews; it feels as though the reviewer was given the wrong series to cover for her tastes and this already-underrated show is being panned as a result. I wonder whether Sengoku BASARA -End of Judgement- would have the same problem if anyone at ANN was covering it? Perhaps it's a good thing that it was overlooked.
Back to Nobunaga Concerto, I think the review is harsh for saying that the show is outright bad with assertions such as "An anime that relies on an outside text to make its point is poorly told, no way around that". I understand that it's probably incomprehensible nonsense to someone with no knowledge about Nobunaga's background, but this is anime, not a documentary airing on the History Channel. It's made for a Japanese audience, and the average person watching this (or reading the original manga) is likely to be someone who paid a little more attention to those classes Saburou dozed through at the start. Please understand that the names of many of these famous people come up in daily Japanese life on a regular basis; sure, the average viewer probably can't name the dates of individual battles or remember how the generals are related to one another in detail, but they'll recognise the names of famous historical figures and have an inkling of what's going to happen to the most famous of them. It's that which is where the biggest payoff of Nobunaga Concerto is for me; the subversion of my expectations when something doesn't match the official records of an event or characters I expect to be a certain way who end up being completely different in the show (and then end up being the same after all, in a rollercoaster of twists). As a fan of historical anime I feel let down that every time something unusual is offered to an English-speaking audience, that audience rejects it for being too difficult to understand, or condemns it without taking into account that without the cultural background it's going to require a bit more effort on the viewer's part to fully appreciate the show. They could have made a full documentary about Oda Nobunaga aimed at an audience with no knowledge of him whatsoever, and explained every little detail, but what they've actually done is made a witty, entertaining, often-thrilling parody of the Oda Nobunaga mythos which existing Nobunaga fans - of which there are healthy numbers - and curious people alike can enjoy. I'm not sure whether it's better for these denser cultural shows to receive universally bad reviews, as they generally seem to, or to be completely ignored by the anime-viewing audience entirely. I wonder which harms their already-low chances of a US home video release more? |
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laureninspace
Posts: 59 |
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Thank you for your respectful comment, even though you didn't agree with me. And that's absolutely fine. I wanted to say something about how this show is probably doing better in Japan because the names are common knowledge there, but I later removed it because as it turns out, this show is doing very poorly in Japan, too. Now I want to find out why, because I'm 100% sure it has nothing to do with recognizing the history. Last edited by laureninspace on Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lupica
Posts: 90 |
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That's interesting to know. I'd like to know what metric Zac has used to say it's doing poorly in Japan, though; it's a low key historical title with experimental animation, so it's naturally not going to sell many BDs or generate a lot of merchandise even though the manga was well received. I imagine its main job is to get more people talking about the movie version (it's worked, in my case)! I think most of my "Wow!" moments with the show have come from situations where knowing the background somehow turned what has been common knowledge for centuries into a twist which blew me away, so it's not surprising that you're struggling if you're having to cram for each episode. It's like explaining a joke  ;
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