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After experiencing both the ANN and AOD forums, I prefer ANN's more. In fact, I only joined the AOD forum cus the ANN was down for so long. Most of AOD's news is stolen or based off of unreliable sources. I know I complained about ANN using a rumour as a fact once, but at least you took responsibility for it.

The same goes for that Tezuka thing. When I complained, you tried to make it up to me. The administrators at AOD encourage theft of news articles, even though their rules claim otherwise.

The truth is AOD is only around because you can talk to reps directly. And most of the people who talk to reps are spoiled anal-retentive bastards who will use any flaw in a dvd as an excuse to boycott it. Sure I've bitched and moaned too, but mainly to mock these hard-core morons. (For example, one person said he didn't consider the Animatrix to be "anime" because it was sponsored by an American studio. So I later said Metropolis was not anime, because Ray Charles sings at the end instead of a j-pop star.)

Plus the environment on the ANN forum is much friendlier, because it consists of people who are anime fans, not people who have to post links or complain to studio reps to get attention.

I know we've had our differences in the past, and we are rivals for news, but at least we're friendly rivals. So anyway, keep up the good work.

long live ANN Razz

HERE HERE for tolerant and non-annoying fanboys! CAKE FOR ALL!

Cool,

I'm glad you guys like the forums, I'm pretty happy with them although I would like to get a bit more traffic.

Sometimes it's hard not to see things in terms of pure numbers, but I'll try to make sure that these forums don't change into something undesirable if they do grow bigger.

I like the friendly and relaxed atmosphere and I want to keep it that way.

i'd have to agree with Gatsu; this is pretty much the only anime-related forum that i've ever joined that I actually like; there is the relative lack of people who think they know everything and that is a quality that is rare in a forum.. I find these people most annoying.

For instance; at Otakon 2k1, some people from the AoD forums were flaming jerry chu from Bandai (i think it was him..) about dvd quality; talking about encoding and layers and manufacturing/mastering costs and how they should make their dvds better; and he just went on and on; The bandai rep (i think it was JC) was a public relations rep, not an encoder, not someone who had anything to do with mastering a show... the truth of the matter is that they were just getting their jollies off "knowing something you don't know" I think they think they are better than you because they are on the "inside" and talk to the american companies directly; the truth of the matter is they are just one small rung in a freakin huge ladder closer to getting to the actual true creators of these shows they bicker over so much..

The lack of that type of behavoir here is what makes me keep coming back and posting and reading; even though I don't really have any questions that I want answered usually. (im sorry if that sounded pompous)

Thanks for running a good forum. ^^

"there is the relative lack of people who think they know everything and that is a quality that is rare in a forum.. I find these people most annoying."

Well I am guilty of correcting the Answerman, but at least I try to do politely. I remember how they tore Zac apart on the AOD forum like he owed them something, when he's answering mail on his own time and with the best resources he can get. While we're at it, I am also sick of the people who trashed the Anime Encyclopedia! Ok, so it has errors. All encyclopedias are guilty of this. But Helen McCarthy spent years of research to get the most comprehensive information she could, and it's tough to keep track of everything, so give her a break!

GATSU wrote:

Most of AOD's news is stolen or based off of unreliable sources. I know I complained about ANN using a rumour as a fact once, but at least you took responsibility for it.

That might be true in the forums, but very nearly everything on AoDVD's front page has been confirmed by the companies, or at least from other highly-reliable sources. Additionally, most of the anime industry recognizes AoDVD's forums as one of the best ways to get information 'out' to others (which I sadly think says a few things about the rest of us..)

GATSU wrote:

The truth is AOD is only around because you can talk to reps directly. And most of the people who talk to reps are spoiled anal-retentive bastards who will use any flaw in a dvd as an excuse to boycott it.

Woah woah... I've talked with most of the reps that haunt AoDVD, and I know them to be very cool, laid-back guys. Maybe they come off like that on the forums, but they're not like that IRL.. at least, not if they aren't busy when you stop to try to talk to'em.. ^^;;;

From what I can tell, a significant portion of AoDVD'ers dislike ANN for a handful of reasons (Answerman, the Eva Movies-being-licensed-by-ADV Voice Actor Rumor from 2000, and the Nadia VS Atlantis articles) and then apply those things to the rest of ANN in general. Such is life -- If they think that we'd be a good news source only "if every day was april fools day", then so be it.

GATSU wrote:

consider the Animatrix to be "anime" because it was sponsored by an American studio. So I later said Metropolis was not anime, because Ray Charles sings at the end instead of a j-pop star.)

For every definition of 'anime', I think I can come up with a counter-example that most fans define as 'anime', even when it would not fit the definition.

GATSU wrote:

I am also sick of the people who trashed the Anime Encyclopedia! Ok, so it has errors. All encyclopedias are guilty of this.

I'm less pleased with the Encyclopedia than I was when I first read it, because I have since realized it's not an encyclopedia! it's an anime "companion" moreso than an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia would include more hard facts about the shows, such as seiyuu, start/stop broadcast dates, and such, plus clear descriptions of how this fits in with director's other works, how it was adapted from manga, etc...

It's still a good COMPANION (especially if you're looking for work done by a single individual, or are looking for the Japanese title of very nearly any series) but calling it an 'encyclopedia' is misleading in its current state. In fact, the only entries I find truely representative of an Encyclopedia are the "Early Anime" and "Wartime Anime" entries, both of which are excellent starting points if you're looking for more information about animation prior to Astroboy.

GATSU wrote:

The truth is AOD is only around because you can talk to reps directly. And most of the people who talk to reps are spoiled anal-retentive bastards who will use any flaw in a dvd as an excuse to boycott it.

Cookie wrote:

Woah woah... I've talked with most of the reps that haunt AoDVD, and I know them to be very cool, laid-back guys. Maybe they come off like that on the forums, but they're not like that IRL.. at least, not if they aren't busy when you stop to try to talk to'em.. ^^;;;

I think you misinterpreted Gatsu's comment there Cookie. He was complaining about the other people, not the studio reps.

No one would dare call our precious studio reps anal-retentive. Smile

Tempest wrote:

No one would dare call our precious studio reps anal-retentive. :-)

I probably would. ^^;

What don't they like abount answerman and the nadia vs atlantis articles.. besides the fact that he thinks Utena is good; he seems alright ^^ and the nadia vs. atlantis articles are pretty well drawn out and take into consideration lots of things which many people probably overlooked. I guess they don't like it when an opinion is based on solid research and not what "someone told me"

"That might be true in the forums, but very nearly everything on AoDVD's front page has been confirmed by the companies, or at least from other highly-reliable sources."

*cough* Second Bebop series *cough*

"Additionally, most of the anime industry recognizes AoDVD's forums as one of the best ways to get information 'out' to others (which I sadly think says a few things about the rest of us..)"

I can read press releases at other sites. Just cus you can b*tch and moan about your precious dvd missing an eyecatch, when 10 years ago, you'd have to buy dub-only hacked vhs titles on the shelves shows just how spoiled these f*cking newbies really are. It makes me want to puke sometimes.

"Woah woah... I've talked with most of the reps that haunt AoDVD, and I know them to be very cool, laid-back guys. Maybe they come off like that on the forums, but they're not like that IRL.. at least, not if they aren't busy when you stop to try to talk to'em.. ^^;;;"

See what Tempest wrote.

"From what I can tell, a significant portion of AoDVD'ers dislike ANN for a handful of reasons (Answerman"

Maybe because Answerman isn't forced to kiss their ungrateful a**es like those studio reps. I applaud the one from Media Blasters who lashed back at them before getting thrown out.

"the Eva Movies-being-licensed-by-ADV Voice Actor Rumor from 2000"

Still isn't as lame as the second Bebop series, because at least they didn't deliberately mangle a Japanese creator's words to get a lot of responses. Not to mention they rely on really crappy information for dvd release news. Right Stuff either screws up the episode ratio or the release dates. But AOD has to mention Right Stuff, cus it's one of their sponsors. It's a joke of a site, I tell you.

"and the Nadia VS Atlantis articles) and then apply those things to the rest of ANN in general. Such is life -- If they think that we'd be a good news source only "if every day was april fools day", then so be it."

Actually, they were trying to act like April Fool's Jokes news stories were a beneath them, the hypocrites.

"I'm less pleased with the Encyclopedia than I was when I first read it, because I have since realized it's not an encyclopedia! it's an anime "companion" moreso than an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia would include more hard facts about the shows, such as seiyuu, start/stop broadcast dates, and such, plus clear descriptions of how this fits in with director's other works, how it was adapted from manga, etc..."

I though encyclopedias are supposed to give summaries-and possibly histories-of the term in question. In that sense, it is an encyclopedia. But the point I was making was that people were screaming for Helen McCarthy's head as if they can write a better book. They don't take into consideration the vast effort and research she must have put in to get this information, and they act like she's deliberately ripping them off for every error she makes. In my day, all you'd have was "Manga! Manga!", and you'd have to look EVERYWHERE for a copy, and now you can get a vast glossary of titles at your fingertips. As I said earlier, most of these losers are just spoiled.

I debated a bit about responding, and appreciate Cookie's responses. If anyone knows the difficulties in running a news site and what it entails, I'm sure he does.

I just wanted to clarify a few of Gatsu's impressions of us, since he couldn't see fit to actually take them to us (as we do provide an area for it and are receptive to criticism), so as to avoid them becoming net fact.

"*cough* Second Bebop series *cough*"

Yeah, that one bothers me. Especially since we had so many people in at that panel and read the convention report we received from it without disputing it. But as with any fan submitted piece, we put the caveat of it being unverified. We do send reporters to conventions, but even with them we try to get things verified by the studios afterwards as confirmation.

This is sort like blaming us for reporting Noir as being licensed. ADV says it, retracts it, says nothing of it. Yet I still get people emailing me saying "why did you guys announce noir for adv? you suck!". Shit happens.

"b*tch and moan about your precious dvd missing an eyecatch"

Some people take their hobby passionately and are vocal about it. Nothing wrong there. Often times, it's these same folks continual going on about things that generates change. Things like overlays and wildly altered dubs. The squeaky wheel does get the grease. Unfortunately some fans enthusiasm goes to high. And since we have a lot of posting readers on the site, it looks like that's all we do. If you only read the studio feedback forum. Other areas, such as region 2, language and culture or music, hardware and so forth are much calmer and more reasoned areas. But the fact that people think/hope/know that a rep will be reading their post, they put all their energy into it.

So good for them. I know what change they've managed to push through at the studios in the last four years.

"Actually, they were trying to act like April Fool's Jokes news stories were a beneath them, the hypocrites."

If the Bebop 2nd series thing was actually intended to be a joke from us as opposed to being someone sending in a misinterpereted convention comment, you'd actually have a leg to stand on. Unfortuantely over the years there've been so many anime april fools jokes that people believe them to be real. One of them this year caused one studio request retractions asap because of the flood of suckers who believed it.

I've tried to run a straightforward site for four years without the april fools stuff so people would know what they were getting. If they were reading the main page, the information was as verified as possible and I felt it was worthwhile going with. You can always come back with things like the Bebop series, but that's just what you're going to get when you're dealing with people sending in unsolicited convention reports. We list them as such and if we find things to be inaccurate, we say so as soon as we find out.

Cookie,

For what it's worth, I doubt the majority of readers have any issue with your site, and probably vice versa here. It's as you know, the vocal ones sound like the majority. I think the only thing I've ever publicly been critical about with ANN is the reviewing of fansubs, which is a whole issue you and I know is far stickier than simple soundbites. But that's something that's based in this sites origins, much like my own site has been based in dealing with studios heavily. I mean, Pioneer hosted our forum for a year while we were dealing with bandwidth issues.

Anyway. Always good to hear feedback, even negative. I simply wish that Gatsu had taken it up directly with us instead of running off to make it a thread here. In the end, we're all just trying to talk about our hobby and our passion with it. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't enjoy anime and I'm sure Cookie and the rest here at ANN feel the same.

"I just wanted to clarify a few of Gatsu's impressions of us, since he couldn't see fit to actually take them to us (as we do provide an area for it and are receptive to criticism),"

Actually, I did. I complained numerous times about users who would steal news and not give proper credit, because they would rather claim that it was their own story, and get a lot of responses, than actually find news on their own. But if you prefer to look the other way so you can find something and pretend its your own-in long run-then go ahead.

"Yeah, that one bothers me. Especially since we had so many people in at that panel and read the convention report we received from it without disputing it. But as with any fan submitted piece, we put the caveat of it being unverified. We do send reporters to conventions, but even with them we try to get things verified by the studios afterwards as confirmation."

I wouldn't call a random con-goer who doesn't officially contribute to AOD news a "reporter".

"This is sort like blaming us for reporting Noir as being licensed. ADV says it, retracts it, says nothing of it."

Yes, but the difference between the Bebop and Noir thing is the Noir thing was officially announced from ADV, and changed at the last minute by them. The Bebop thing was really just manipulating the director's words.

"Some people take their hobby passionately and are vocal about it. Nothing wrong there."

It is if you encourage that behavior. I really don't blame reps for leaving the forums if they don't have anything constructive to hear from the regulars.

"Often times, it's these same folks continual going on about things that generates change. Things like overlays and wildly altered dubs."

Yes, but when you're going on about semantics like credits, it just gets insane after a while.

"The squeaky wheel does get the grease. Unfortunately some fans enthusiasm goes to high. And since we have a lot of posting readers on the site, it looks like that's all we do. If you only read the studio feedback forum. Other areas, such as region 2, language and culture or music, hardware and so forth are much calmer and more reasoned areas."

They occasionally get into heated debates too.

"But the fact that people think/hope/know that a rep will be reading their post, they put all their energy into it. So good for them. I know what change they've managed to push through at the studios in the last four years."

How arrogant! If anything, it was the companies that pushed for change, and not the fans! It was Manga and Disney who made it possible for anime movies to get wider releases, and yet they're the ones that get the most verbally assaulted. It was Bandai who made it possible for less cut anime to be broadcast on cable, and yet because they decide to release the first Gundam in a dub-only version, and because they decide to change the mecha names in G-Gundam, Bandai is spit on!

"Unfortuantely over the years there've been so many anime april fools jokes that people believe them to be real. One of them this year caused one studio request retractions asap because of the flood of suckers who believed it."

So what? That's the point! To fool people.

"For what it's worth, I doubt the majority of readers have any issue with your site, and probably vice versa here. It's as you know, the vocal ones sound like the majority. I think the only thing I've ever publicly been critical about with ANN is the reviewing of fansubs,"

Considering you endorsed someone else's extortion scheme in regards to your mascot merchandise, you have no right to complain! Not to mention a lot of people on your forums are probably more openly verbal about viewing fansubs or illegally downloaded anime than they are on ANN.

"I mean, Pioneer hosted our forum for a year while we were dealing with bandwidth issues."

Not surprising, considering you gave a POS like Battle Athletes the status of "Anime On DVD Recommends".

"In the end, we're all just trying to talk about our hobby and our passion with it. I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't enjoy anime and I'm sure Cookie and the rest here at ANN feel the same."

Hey, I enjoy talking about anime too. So much so that I contribute to a mailing list nearly 24/7. I just don't enjoy dealing with people who might have questionable journalistic integrity.

"I've tried to run a straightforward site for four years without the april fools stuff so people would know what they were getting. If they were reading the main page, the information was as verified as possible and I felt it was worthwhile going with. You can always come back with things like the Bebop series, but that's just what you're going to get when you're dealing with people sending in unsolicited convention reports."

So if the news item seems unbelievable, it probably is.

"Anyway. Always good to hear feedback, even negative. I simply wish that Gatsu had taken it up directly with us instead of running off to make it a thread here."

Hey, I'm not the only one who's annoyed by Anime On DVD. As you can see, Lord Byron and Gai Super Napalm chimed in with me. But if you want to act like AOD doesn't have flaws that need to be worked out, go ahead.

Gatsu: "How arrogant! If anything, it was the companies that pushed for change, and not the fans!"

AAAAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I've watched anime enter the American market BECAUSE OF THE FANS...or more to the point, because of thier $$$$$. You have no fans, you have no market---you have no market, you have no anime in America. For years many people working in companies like Bandai in Japan never truely believed anime could sell in America (in fact some people in Japan still don't believe it). And, of course, most business in America didn't believe it--but the fans did. It was FANS that distributed fansubs, and then FANS created their own film business distributing anime with ADV, Animego, and Manga video (and there are anime fans in Cartoon Network). Pioneer and Bandai saw the light (or saw the money) and followed the green, but it was the FAN that led the way.

Changes go where the ratings or where the cash is coming from, and it COMES from the North American markets, the buyers, the FANS.

"I've watched anime enter the American market BECAUSE OF THE FANS...or more to the point, because of thier $$$$$."

Oh, so did the fans pay for Akira and Ghost in the Shell to be in theaters instead of Streamline and Manga? Did they pay for Pokemon to be on tv instead of Nintendo?

"You have no fans, you have no market---you have no market, you have no anime in America."

If anything, it's the fans who are the threat to anime becoming lucrative, because they're worried about it being mainstream, because if it becomes mainstream, they have no identity. I heard the collective groan of people upset about live-action DBZ, Ninja Scroll and Akira movies.

"For years many people working in companies like Bandai in Japan never truely believed anime could sell in America"

I guess you didn't read the Akadot review with Fredd Ladd at http://www.akadot.com/article/article-fredladd1.html :

"Now at that time there was no animation industry in Japan, they were importing animation from other places, mostly from the states. So he looked into it and found out it was called Tetsuwan Atom and it was a Japanese animation, so he called back to NBC who said, "Call Fred Ladd."

And then this one at http://www.akadot.com/article/article-fredladdii1.html :

"Once the word spread to Tokyo that, hey Mushi [Productions] is exporting pictures to America, it's a big hit, money money money dollars! overnight a dozen studios sprung up, literally! It's the same thing here..."

"and then FANS created businesses distributing anime with ADV, Animego, and Manga video"

No, the people behind these companies are just normal entrepeneurs who happen to like anime. (Well except for the people behind SPPP Techno Arts; but then they're also a production studio, so it would make sense that they're fans as well.) The FANS, as you put, it are people who sit on their a**es and complain about everything without actually putting any time or money into these ventures, and not really knowing what it takes to run these businesses, but pretending otherwise.

"(and there are anime fans in Cartoon Network)"

The people who produce shows like the Powerpuff Girls and Samurai Jack are fans. The people who run Cartoon Network are just executives.

"Pioneer saw the light (or saw the money) and followed the green, but it was the FAN that led the way."

So it was the FAN who decided to release unexpectedly popular titles like Tenchi and El Hazard, even though it could've been a failure?

GATSU wrote:

Oh, so did the fans pay for Akira and Ghost in the Shell to be in theaters instead of Streamline and Manga? Did they pay for Pokemon to be on tv instead of Nintendo?

You're got the process backwards. Streamline and Manga didn't pay anyone to put their movies in theaters. The theaters paid them. And Nintendo didn't pay the TV stations to air Pokemon, the TV stations paid them.

That's one of the fundamental principals of capitalism. Nintendo made their money by selling their product to FOX. FOX made their money by selling advertising time during Pokemon's timeslot, while thousands of little kids are watching. The advertisers make money because the people watching get to see their products, and some of the viewers buy the products the next time they take a trip to the supermarket.

So, really, it is the fans that run everything. If the fans weren't there to see the shows on TV, nobody buy advertising spots. And if nobody bought adversiting spots, the TV station wouldn't bother buying expensive Japanese shows. And if no American TV stations wanted to buy Japanese shows, the companies in Japan wouldn't bother trying to sell it to us, and anime would never leave Japan.
Shocked

The same goes for movies, merchandise, anime on video, manga, and countless other things. If there weren't people here to see it, American companies wouldn't bother importing it.

GATSU wrote:

No, the people behind these companies are just normal entrepeneurs who happen to like anime. (Well except for the people behind SPPP Techno Arts; but then they're also a production studio, so it would make sense that they're fans as well.)

That's true to some extent. Some of the people who work in the anime business have no appreciation at all for the artform. They just know that all the kiddies love it, and work on the dubs so they can buy a shiny new BMW.

But many of the people who work in the anime industry are fans, as well as entrepeneurs. If they weren't fans, they wouldn't only work on anime. If ADV Films, for example, wasn't run by anime fans, they would almost definitely have a ton more animation in their catalog from America and other countries besides Japan.

GATSU wrote:

The FANS, as you put, it are people who sit on their a**es and complain about everything without actually putting any time or money into these ventures, and not really knowing what it takes to run these businesses, but pretending otherwise.

Those are just the lazy fans. Serious fans move on in life to organize conventions, start anime shops, open anime news websites, and maybe even work in the American anime industry.
Very Happy

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