Forum - View topicJigoku Shoujo - Japanese broadcast (complete).
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11442 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Anyone here seen Jigoku Shoujo?
I just started it a couple of nights ago and found it to be a great concept. The art and animation are smooth, the music is satisfyingly suspenseful, and I love the moral/psychological aspects. And with that, I'm a bit curious to know your opinions on how you would confront situations like these. Personally, I don't believe in any religion and see it all as mythology more so than a system of beliefs. But in a series like this, it has sort of peaked my interest into the beliefs of other people. I don't mean religious beliefs per se, but moral beliefs. For those of you have seen this series (or those of you who may be interested after reading this), have you ever reached that pinnacle of anger and malice that you would want to take revenge? And I don't mean this in a hypothetical situation like, if I were to wish for vengeance on all of ADV's voice actors. That's just "fanboy-ism" at work, and if Hell really existed, I would never bring myself to inflict that kind of punishment on any living creature. I'm talking serious, all-out, send a person to Hell and condemn your own soul kind of revenge. I guess what I'm trying to do is test out all of your ethics, while at the same time sampling your morals, and possibly delving into whatever beliefs (personal, not religious) you have. Like I said, I honestly could not take revenge on someone no matter how dire the circumstances may be. While I say I'm not a religious person to begin with, I do, however, believe in karma. I don't think karma is some sort of supernatural force that controls the lives of people, but I do believe in that cliché, "what goes around, comes around." Of course, you can also put your own twist on it and think of it as being a way of "rewarding" the deeds of what a lot of us perceive as "good" and "bad" people as well... But getting back to my point, I also don't believe in grudges, murder, revenge, and all of that other stuff. I like to think karma is kind of a natural way of balancing out the universe, or if you will, an "equivalent exchange," to quote a certain anime  .
I don't want this to escalate into a debate on religion, unless you all can look at it from a somewhat objective view, but what are your opinions on this sort of issue? That is, how would you handle something like being bullied, stalked, or put in a situation where you lost something or someone dear? Would you wish for vengeance? Would you let karma do its job? Or maybe there's something else that can be done? Sorry if this post isn't making sense. It's late and cold medicine has made me a bit groggy  .
Last edited by Tony K. on Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:58 am; edited 3 times in total |
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mydog8u2
 Posts: 82 |
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I've just read the plot summary and I must say, I'm interested.
Revenge, eh... Of course, it is much tempting to say something moralizing, that revenge is 'bad', 'will only lead to destruction and tragedy' (hence the genre "revenge tragedy"). But let's go to the heart of how we humans reason. There are, or can be, times when an individual is driven to the very extremes - as you have said, "reach that pinnacle of anger and malice." I think that that kind of frightening mental state is a reflection of not what kind of person you are, but more so of the innate human frailty that's in all of us. Let's be superficial. A guy hits me and I hit him back. That is the... uh... "principle", I guess, of revenge. Of course, most people would refrain from resorting to vengeance. Well, most people wouldn't send some one to hell for being 'hit'. We are, after all, endowed with a 'conscience', and it tells us these moral things like 'mercy' and 'forgiveness'. Now, it is of another concern whether that 'hit' is tolerable, or critical. Whether it is 'bullying', 'sexual harassment', or 'murder', people have the capacity to forgive. While one may forgive a murderer, another may not be able to resist school bullying and contemplate vengeance. Okay, okay, so revenge is a reflection of what kind of person you are. But my argument still stands. It's all about being hit where it hurts, and all humans, I believe, have a place within themselves that, when 'hit', is irreparable. What could be the so-called 'irreparable' damage? What could be so hurtful that it makes you wish that someone would eternally rot in hell? Let's be hypothetical. An evil man, out of sheer malice, kills your mom. If I were in that situation, I'd probably go to the ends of the universe to see that man rot in hell, and if there were anything worse, I'd want to make it happen. Now, you can call me merciless, but I'd call it human nature. Now, if you say that you won't take vengeance no-matter-what, then you are a saint. But are you sure? Okay, so in that scenario with the murder of your mother (being hypothetical, of course  ), you may be so kind-hearted enough to forgive the murderer. Well, in everyone's eyes, you'd be the saint of all saints. But you are a human, and don't you think you too have that 'irreparable' spot, of which that even your saintly heart cannot handle the pain?
I don't think there's anyone like that, and if there is, he/she is not human. For to be human is to be frail and easily tempted. That's why we have religions, so that we, mere humans, can reach out to some distant, saintly, godly support that will stop us from having such frightening desires. Thank you for this profoundly interesting thread.
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CrackaJax
 Posts: 250 Location: Mount Olympus, Syracuse University |
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I think I would do what I could to take action into my own hands, as opposed to letting some little girl do the work for me. Most of the situations, though, could've been dealt with right away and it wouldn't have escalated (well, actually, not too sure about the 2nd episode).
Oh, and apparently the plot picks up around episode 8, so until then, the episodes are supposed to be pretty formulaic. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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I saw the first two episodes at my weekly anime night, but I really disliked the show. I mean, I'm sure it will have it's fans, but personally I really hate the "people are really evil F###s, and cruelly torment a sucker who can;t fight back, and then he ruins everything for revenge" stories. I just don't like explorations of that side of human nature.
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masterzephyr
 Posts: 21 Location: With the twins! (twingy southern remix) |
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Revenge is a dirty deed, so it surprising that the characters go to such great lengths to rid the world of those they dislike (hate).
I don't know about everyone else, but I'd be too wary about trusting a force of unknown origin. .....Does that make me werid or just a realist. Who knows....but one things is for certain: RULE NO. 5  *inside joke sorta thing*
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11442 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Great point about relgion. I whole heartedly agree with how people use it in general to keep themselves and the rest of society in check. And since it's been around so long, a lot of humanity has come to create and fortify some of those teachings into, uh.. how should I put this.. unwritten laws? It's hard to think of a world where 'good' and 'bad' aren't already defined by religion or what society has accepted to be 'normal.' But, I suppose if religion didn't exist, the world would be in anarchy. Kudos to the geniuses that created them .
But going back to the "being a saint" thing, say I forgive the murderer of my mother, but then he dies and I feel a sense of resolution. Technically, I had forgiven him already and I didn't have a single thing to do with his death. Would that condemn my soul if I felt the slightest bit of elation from that, or would I still be considered somewhat of a saint? I'm not trying to tie that in with any particular religion, but 'hypothetically,' I'm curious to know how you and other people would treat all of these different scenarios.
Good. I've seen up to episode 6 thus far, and it's pretty cut and dry with the same routine over and over again. A couple of the episodes I didn't like so much (the ones with the baseball prospect and the veterinian), but I enjoy the overall atmosphere, as it's quite dark and not something I see a lot of in anime these days. I'm just hoping they actually touch on the history of the Hell Correspondence characters or put them in different situations for a little more variety. I don't want to sound like a bad person, but I really enjoyed seeing some of those people go to Hell. I guess you could call it a way of channeling whatever repressed anger I have into a medium where only fictional characters get hurt. I'm sure some of you out there have gotten so angry, but with no way to release, that you just wanted to partake in some sort of guilty pleasure. In this case, we get to see various characters take revenge for whatever reason, with the antagonists symbolizing what it was we were so angry about, at least that's how I view this series. I'm just curious to know how all of you may interpret the show or these ideas differently, if at all.
Well, I'm not sure if you've seen this series, but there is a catch to getting your revenge. And by saying that, I'm sure a lot you can figure it out now...  . And to answer your question, I would not trust that unknown force either. In fact, I don't trust anyone, 100%.
Every person has a bad side that will betray you or hurt your feelings somehow. I suppose that makes me a cold and callous person, right? Actually, now that I think about, I probably give too many people the benefit of the doubt. |
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Patachu
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1325 Location: San Diego |
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I like the questions being raised here and the resulting discussion.
But what I really like about Jigoku Shoujo is that it goes one step further (a step which I think this thread should also take) and asks an even more pointed question: spoiler[Assuming that there is something that would push you towards carrying out revenge, Would you be willing to accept eternal, permanent punishment just to resolve a temporary problem? That's something to think about. What kind of inhumanity would push you so far over the edge that you would willingly go to Hell sometime in the future, just so you can send someone else to Hell now? ] And who does that make the real villain? |
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mydog8u2
Posts: 82 |
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You're absolutely right. Just because one forgives another doesn't make that person a saint. Going back to what you said... If you had 'forgiven' the murderer already and later down the track he dies, and in turn you feel that "slightest bit of elation", I'd personally say that you are darn well entitled to feel that elation  . But, if you had truly forgiven the murderer, wouldn't you be pitying him? I mean, it's easy to "forgive" by thinking it, believing it. But what weight is there to forgiveness if that belief is betrayed by the split second of elation? To me, it's saying that you never truly forgave that person in the first place - which is, of course, only natural and very human.
But, would you be condemned for feeling elated? Condemned by who? God? No, you won't be condemned by God, for he understands his own creation. God would understand that your feeling of elation couldn't be helped. It's just how he has created us humans (I'm being very... uh... 'Christian' here  ) Of course, God wouldn't look at it in a favourable way, but that's why you pray to him and ask his forgiveness for thinking and feeling these evil pleasures.
However! God would condemn you to hell for exercising 'his' power. And this is portrayed in Jigoku Shoujo. spoiler[For sending someone to hell now, you go to hell in the future.] Firstly, it doesn't have any allusions of proper religion. Why isn't it 'proper'? Because, from my understanding, God wouldn't give humans the ability to send fellow humans to hell in the first place. That's God's job, isn't it? Anyway, the "Hell" in Jigoku Shoujo seems close to the real thing. All I can say at this stage (watched up to 6th episode), is that it deals with the most hidden evils and guilty thoughts. Its portrayal of humanity, and inhumanity, is so accurate and realistic that it's quite scary. I like I like.
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El Oso
 Posts: 105 Location: Rummaging through camp sites. |
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I think that's a far too heavy price to pay. I certainly couldn't do it, aside from a spur of the moment reaction where my emotions completely took over. Then I'd end up regretting it afterward. I mean, considering the person you take revenge on is an evil bastard, he'd eventually be going to Hell anyway. And if I were about to be killed like spoiler[ the girl who was cornered by the stalker] I think I would opt to get offed. What's one short life cut shorter compared to an eternity in Hell? There is one thing that I didn't like about the series. It's an extremely difficult decision to make, but we are only given one episode for each case. Personally I would have preferred around 3 eps per case to flesh each story out a bit more. And maybe make some of the cases a bit more convincing. That would also make longer freakout scenes before the person is sent to hell too. That aside, it's pretty interesting so far.
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11442 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Good point, and this is where my belief of karma comes into play. Hypothetically, if Hell really exists, I would definitley not be able to carry out that kind of vengence. However, we humans are known to do some pretty stupid things that are spur of the moment. There was an MMORPG I was playing once, and I ended up losing about $3 million (in the game) to some punk that scammed me out of my money. It took me about 3 weeks of gameplay to save up that much, and I was totally ticked off when I lost it just like that. For a few weeks after, I would repeatedly daydream about torturing and tormenting that person with physical harm to him/her, and I even went so far to put his/her family in the mix. But, as time went by, I realized it was just a game, and that karma will eventually get him/her. I'm not sure if that person is as bad in the real world, but when playing MMORPGs, a person's attitude and actions are the only thing I can go from. And for a while, I really wanted that person to burn in Hell for taking my money and humiliating me. In fact, just remembering this, is making me even angrier.. I'm not one to really hold a grudge, and when it comes down to it, I'm sure could easily forgive this person because of my faith in karma doing its job, eventually. I mean, sending one person to Hell only makes you as bad as that other person, anyway. So as long as karma exists, I know he/she will get his comeuppance. I guess it's sort of like "indirect revenge." |
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Rozzer
 Posts: 344 Location: So Cali |
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I just started watching this after you guys sparked my interest in this particular title. I've always enjoyed watching anything where revenge is played out, much like in the movie Count of Monti Cristo. Although that was a superb piece of vengeance, this anime series still has an interesting way of showing dark retribution.
Kind of reminds me of Little Shop of Horrors in the sense of individual twisted stories with the 4 main characters in each episode. Although I am just up to episode 5, I still think episode 4 was the most insane plot for a story. I wont go into details, but I think it was a rather cheap way to get the whole "revenge" plot rolling. |
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Deltakiral
 Posts: 3338 Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK) |
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Ok I just watched the first five epsiodes of this series. Couple things I want to point out so I will do it in a list format.
1. Great idea, dealing with how far someone may go just to get revenge, and it makes me think because I know there have been times when I was so mad at someone I wished they would disappear. 2. I really enjoy the opening of this show that deals with Karma in general, and more importantly how things have a sort of balance. Also I particularily enjoy when hell girls spoiler[mentions that when vengence is carried out there will be two graves dug. ] I always found that to be interesting everytime I heard her says that and how each character would react to her, and you really get a gauge of how far along this person was to wanted this person completely spoiler[eliminated.] 3. The opening music, and the closing music are really really fitting, I am not sure why that is, but even with each episode ending with someone being spoiler[carried to hell] I always found that music to fit just right. 4. Lastly and most importantly, does anyone know if this show is going to have some more growth, and hopefully soon because right now it's monster (well spoiler[more like death] of the week. Till next time, Delta Kiral |
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Arkard
 Posts: 677 Location: Poland |
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I am freshly after the available 6 episodes and I can safely say I am really enjoying Jigoku Shoujo. The plot, as it has been until now, isnt`t exacty "enlightning" but the series is entertaining as far. Unfortunetly, having only the entertainment factor, it can be labeled only as "good". But I feel it has potential to be "Great". If only they would break away the standard "I hate someone, I untie the red string, S/He goes to Hell" idea. There isn`t any real plot to it. The background stories could act as it but in the long run, if things continue as they are now, Jigoku Shoujo will remain a partially good series with miles and miles of lost potential. Maybe some character development? I really like this elderly buddist priest
he has a friendly face. Maybe an episode on the origin of the Hell Hotline? Come on, you can do so much with it.
But.. I did check out the official site, where they keep the summary for future episodes. And having read of it up to the 12th I dont see any change in the current pattern. All I saw was simple stories about people with grudges. I dunno, maybe there will be something more to them! Its not like they would write "and in this episode we get a plot twist". We have to have faith people! Also, this series is a great learning tool for me. Being extremely interested in the Japanese psyche I couldn`t miss out on researching what comes as "tragedy" to those people. Coming from a totally different society I really can`t imagine myself commiting suicide over such trivial things as becoming a parias or experiencing some shame or badmouthing. Of course those kinds of trends weren`t anything new to me, I am studying japanese philology. But I always anticipate what will the creators come with next. And I am learning from it. Like the parents making financial restitutions to other houses when their kid done something wrong. Now thats the way to learn. Through anime. And to anwer the question in the first post: You would have to be lacking in the cerebral department to even consider doing something so ungodly Stupid as contracting with the Hell Girl. Your soul is eternal for gods sake. Your life here is only temporary. And its not a question of your personal believes, in this scenario you are 100% sure Hell and Heaven exist and when the red string is untied you KNOW you are going to Hell. But I guess it lies in the nature of the Japanese people. Their lives and minds are concetrated Here, on Earth, where they live. It always fascinated me how much thought and consideration they put into the world surounding them. Anyway, getting back to the point. No matter how much I would hate anyone (and I am fairly certain I never Hated someone - disliked sure, but "Hate" is such a strong word) I could never bring myself to condeming my own soul just to gain a few years of relaxation. I dont really care alot for my enemies, but we are talkign about my damn soul. So no.. you would never catch me in front of the Hell Hotline.
Also I strongly believe in Karma, maybe differently than Tony K. but I believe in the great force the balances out the world, not distinquishing if your actions were "wrong" or "right" but rather... giving you back what you send out. If those are negative feelings, you will get something negative back. Karma tends to work in mysterious ways, and I came to assosiate it as a tool of God, but this isnt a religious thread so forgive me for spacing out. --- ippen... shindemiru? |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11442 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I had the chance to watch episodes 7 and 8 today. I really like the presentation of the series and still find it to be very enjoyable, regardless of the repetitive formula.
Episode 7 was a bit different from the others: spoiler[ the girl (Ayaka) that summoned Enma was actually the bad one, yet her "vengeance" was only a part of her rotten personality and character that was to help fulfill her own selfish desires. The show did a good job portraying that sort of karma I mentioned where Kaoruko was forced to drink that liquid and practically have her acting career ruined, only to have Ayaka recieve that very vengeance she wanted to inflict from the beginning instead. I actually thought there was going to be some kind of triangle of revenge going on between Ayaka, her mother, and Naoruka, but Ayaka's mother handled it pretty maturely.] This was a nice change of pace to the prior scenarios. As for episode 8, I think I can see where an actual "plot" might be developing: spoiler[ that Tsugumi girl and Enma seem to have some kind of connection. She was able to see the location of where the revenge was exacted to. And on top of that, when her "dad" (I'm not quite sure if they really are father and daughter yet) was talking to her, she zoned out and said those ever growing famous words, "Ippen... shinde miru?" I'm not sure if she was possessed or just having some kind of spiritual phenomenon, but if anything proves she and Enma have a thing going, that should be enough.] And up to this point, I'm surprised at some of the big name seiyuu they keep getting to play the minor and major roles. There are so many voices I've come to recognize before reading the credits, that I wouldn't expect to hear them for just one episode. But hey, I guess if it's just one episode, they can afford the time to do it .
I'm looking very forward to the rest of the series now. |
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Iemander
 Posts: 443 |
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I was pretty dissapointed in it really, I was expecting something a little more cruel. Like having an Elfen Lied esque slaughter of parents and sister in front of a 5 year old son, or a torture so bad a person got his limbs cutt off etc etc. That sort of stuff, something really really cruel. Instead, we've got a school girl who gets teased in school and thus damns her own soul, that's just really really flat and extremely uninteresting.
I only saw one episode, but it just instantely turned me off. |
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