Forum - View topicPlural of anime is...
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Emerje
 Posts: 7403 Location: Maine |
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...Anime? Like the Plural of Moose is Moose? I've been trying to figure this out for a while. I see a lot of people online saying "animes" but that both sounds and looks funny to me so I don't use it, yet I don't remember ever reading "animes" in any publication. Is anime both singular and plural or is animes the plural of anime?
Emerje |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3791 Location: Montreal |
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Yep, anime is anime whether it's singular or plural. Just before we launched the Encyclopedia, last July, we asked the opinion of a few people "in the industry". Librarian and Anime scholar Gilles Poitras commented that the plural shouldn't be used for "anime" and "manga", so I corrected that before the launch. It makes sense if you think about it: "anime" is the romaji for a Japanese word, and the Japanese language doesn't have plural.
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Emerje
Posts: 7403 Location: Maine |
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If Gilles Poitras says so then that's good enough for me, thanks a lot!
Emerje |
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Vicious
 Posts: 97 |
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I don't know who he is, but with a name like Gilles he has to be smart :)
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Gai Super Napalm
 Posts: 148 Location: Hoboken, NJ |
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If thats on purpose, its genius. |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4534 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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I don't use "animes" myself, usually adding a noun as a modifier for plurals like "anime series" or "anime productions", but I don't flinch at "animes" or "mangas" as I have no problem with other people adapting foreign words to fit within the rules of English. I think whether or not you add an "S" should be left to your personal discretion.
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Akuen
Posts: 6 |
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i agree, anime is both singular and plural (or neither?), but isn't anime romaji for a japanese word taken from french? i thought i read it somewhere.
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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It's often stated as fact... ... but as near as I can tell it's never really been that way. animenation's ask john did a good summary of why the word probably didn't come from the french term... Tempest and Dan have some good arguments for french-descent, either as an adaptation of the word or else coming from french, passing through English and then becoming Japanese. Meanwhile, I did a search through google's usenet archives, and found the accented animé appears to be something fans came up with in the 90s, and doesn't appear to exist prior to that point in time. The important question is whether Japanese animators prior to Tezuka used the term 'anime', and if they did, from which animators (American or French) did they most heavily draw inspiration. One can suppose that if the Japanese animators used techniques primarily developed by the Americans, that it would be from the English. If, on the other hand, the early artists used French techniques and technology, it would be more likely to come from the French. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as comparing one film to another, because there are few, if any surviving copies of some of the oldest Japanese animated works, so it's hard to pull quality examples from them. A lot of the wartime animation (1930-1945) was totally destroyed. It's no suprise that photographs of the animation survive, but I'm not sure how many of the earliest works remain totally (or even partially) intact. Moreover, I've been unable to find -any- history about French animation prior to the 70s. If there's a site (or book or ANYTHING) out there with earlier animation i'd really like to know. So, that leaves early american animation as the primary body of existing works from which we can compare animation styles and techniques. ... but without the original Japanese works to compare, it's difficult to figure out where their inspiration came from. Photos from the surviving 1930s wartime animations appear to use techniques developed in America in the 20s... but that's not evidence of anything, as animation in Japan had surfaced in the early 1910s, almost at the exact same time it was being refined in America, and it would certainly take a while for new technology and techniques to pass from one country to another. I'd also say that Japan of the 1910s was influenced by Europe more than America, in terms of the styles and trends we can see in images of the timeperiod... ... so it could really go either way still, until someone can find early Japanese reels and examine them alongside American and French works from the same timeperiod. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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Oh, good, I think it's been at least 10 days since somebody asked the origin of the word "anime."
Don't worry, Cookie, one of these days they'll all listen to you and they'll stop asking. Last edited by LordByronius on Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Case
Posts: 1016 |
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Is it even correct to call a specific work an anime?
It seems like a broader term than that to me, like it should describe the whole medium/genre as a whole rather than an individual work. A lot like the word "animation". You might ask where to find the animation section in the video store, but you don't go to a movie theater and ask for tickets to the animation, right? (Even though that may be technically correct...) I usually refer to specific anime works as "anime title", "anime series", or "anime movie". I think it sounds more intelligent. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10455 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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http://www.hollywoodsattic.com/shopping/pricelist.asp?prid=513 The Devil's Ball (1929) Produced in Paris, silent. (With Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, 28 min., 1913). The Devil's Ball is an example of early French animation, a short puppet animated film with many involved, elaborate sequences. 5 min Tintin was first Animated in 1969 http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:qplmv4BMNzAC:www.tintinmilou.free.fr/rg/biographie.htm+%2B%22dessin+anime%22+%2B1920&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 http://homepage1.nifty.com/gon2/work/1910.html A japanese webstire about early animation, includes reference to some French animation by Emile Cohl (the same person in the first link) from 1908. http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Comics/About%20Comics/Library/Encyclopedie%20Universalis%20et%20BD Very interesting article about the history of comics. According to this article the word baloon was first used in 18th century England (1700s) carricatures. It also states that modern comics were "born" in Switzerland, in the comics of a man by the name of Rodolphe Topffer (so much for comics being invented in America) in the 1820s. From there is goes on to say that the first French comic strip (without baloons) was published in 1889, with baloons appearing in French comic strips in 1908, and the first strip to rely entirely on baloons for dialog in 1925. Although the article itself doesn't mention which Brittish satire used Baloons in the 18th century, I'm pretty sure it is referring to Willam Hogarth's works from the 1730's. In other articles, Hogarth, and another Englishman by the name of Thomas Rowlandson, are listed as precursors and inspiration for Rudolph Topffer. There's this book: Lo Duca, G. M. 1939. Du dessin anime a la plastique animee [comics; in French]. La Nature 67(May 15):314-319. And this one: Maillet, Raymond. Le dessin anime francais. Institut Lumiere, 1983. According to http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:GfPzgNfzTBsC:www.resfortuna.com/Bd/rf_bd_hist_jalon.htm+%22rodolphe+Topffer%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 comic strips can also trace back to the works of the brothers Pellerin in France in 1824, but I can't find any info on the works. I've found their name in several other articles though, some of which dismiss them, and others that put great importance on their works. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://webpublic.ac-dijon.fr/divers/culture/services/museum/docbd.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522fr%25C3%25A8res%2BPellerin%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8 The first French Animated TV series was "Les Aventures de Joe:, 1960 http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rllew/chrn1960.html http://www.toonarific.com/a/adventuresofjoe.html Blah, enough. |
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Quintron
 Posts: 19 Location: japan |
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the proper japanese term is actually manga, a real japanese word that has been used since japanese art has existed.
the word "anime" seems to be more appropriate when one is talking about an animated full-length film. therefore, an "anime" would be something like "spirited away," while a manga would be everything else (including comics and animated series). the japanese refer to comic books as "manga no hon" (lit. book of cartoons) to distinguish the difference when it isnt clear which the speaker is refering to. its seems that the distinction between the words "anime" and "manga" is a distinction foreign (non-japanese) fans have created. just throwing my 2 cents into the discussion... |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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I've heard that before... But the trouble is... .. I've never seen neither hide nor hair of that non-distinction in all the advertisements I've ever seen. Heck, I even read a Japanese book about the history of manga and failed to find any mention of it (even when anime entered the scene)... The best I can say in regards to this is: If a difference -didn't- exist historically, one most certainly does now. PS: Thanks very much, Tempest, for the links. :) I had totally forgotten about that request so many months ago.. |
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Quintron
Posts: 19 Location: japan |
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this distinction comes from my personal experience, no books or ads are involved...
when i talk to the kids, i teach english to here, about anime (tv series), theyre like, "you mean manga?" and i have to say "manga no hon" to talk about what manga (comics) they like. i too used to be under the impression that there was a distinction, but i now know better. about the only time i see the word "anime" here, is at video shops, in the dvd sections, and other foreign (US) titles are mixed in, thus rendering the word "anime" to only refer to the fact that the dvd isnt live-action. this is what i know to be true in japan. |
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