Forum - View topicWhat Makes a title a classic
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balla
 Posts: 255 Location: Toronto aka T.DOT |
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What in your book makes a title a classic. Right now i am waiting to see the end of Champloo to know if it can be named a classic. What is your criteria.
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Steventheeunuch
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Titles that make a larger than normal impact are generally considered classics. Many titles in the Shonen Jump-vein, like Dragonball, Saint Seiya, One Piece, Yuyu Hakusho and Naruto, along with others, are shows that usually continue to keep interest even after the primary series (TV) has ended, and acheives a high rate of success not only in Japan, but in other asian and western markets. Shows such as Astro Boy which continue to be re-made and retold are also classics, because they survived the test of time.
Again, other genre-bending and re-defining examples are things such as Evangelion and Gundam, which injected new life into existing Mecha genres. Ghost in the Shell was one of the highest selling Anime films in the US, and also was partial inspiration for certian Hollywood blockbusters. Spirited Away was the first Japanese animation to win an academy award. Subsequently, it, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle (I think?), and many other Ghibli titles have been very high or #1 in box office sales in Japan. Just think of it this way- Is it still relevant to many people even after its time is done? Then it could generally be considered a classic. |
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ShellBullet
 Posts: 1051 Location: I hit things, with my fist. |
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Think of it this way:
Ben-Hur = classic Elektra = not a classic Ferris Bueller's Day Off = classic Guess Who = not a classic Hope that helps! Basically anything that will be forgotten in 20 years time is not a classic. Anything that stands the test of time could concievably be a classic. |
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Perfectsword
 Posts: 527 Location: Somewhere in NY |
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Yeah, It has to be old and remembered. which means it has to have an impact on something. GITS could be considered a classic...among anime fans. <- that would be another thing, not just anime fans should know of it. Princess Mononoke might be I certainly think it quilifys. |
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Hunter Gren
 Posts: 46 Location: Marshall MN |
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I've given it some thought and come up with 5 qualifiers to be a classic. They are
1- age People talk about things being an "instant classic" but that is pure grade A bull. Nothing is automaticly a classic. Time is the hardest test that something can face. For something to remain fresh after years have passed shows true qualities of a classic. 2- Quality You never hear about something as a classic if the quality isn't high, if it was high at its time and now would be considered low budget, it takes away from the classic credibility of the title in question. 3- Story Ever heard of a classic that had a crappy story or weak charecters? No, it takes a solid plot with well shapped and developed charecters are needed to make a story classic. 4- Rewatchability Classics have the ability to hold our attention no matter how many times we see them. Qualities 2 and 3 continue to stand up to the test of repeat viewing. Shows that are classic can be watched at the drop of a hat, without boredom or loss of intrest. 5- Aclaim Aclaim, or buzz is often what draws people in to see a show. You could have the greatest show in the history of medium, but if nobody has heard of it, it can hardly be considered a classic. Also, the right amount of buzz has made people think that shows which might lack in the other 4 areas deserve to be called classic when items 1 and 4 are drasticly lacking. When you combine these 5 you have a dynamic show that can be considered classic. So what qualifies? Off the top of my head, and in my opinion, Ranma Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind Urusei Yatsura Slayers(boarderline) N |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I'm completely in agreement with Hunter Gren, though I'd add another factor:
6 - Influence To be a classic, an anime (or book or film or whatever) must influence the later works of the medium. You can't make a giant monster movie without being in some way influenced by Godzilla and King Kong (though you don't have to be all Peter Jackson-y about it and do a remake, just to prove you can't tell imitation from influence). Similarly, it is impossible to make a mecha anime that doesn't in some way carry with it the influence of (among others) Neon Genesis Evangelion and the Gundam collective. Nor can you make a harem anime that isn't somehow influenced by Love Hina. The point isn't whether these are anime (or movies or books or whatever) that you love or hate. The point is that you can't get around them within their field. They're impossible to ignore. - abunai |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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I'd argue that the likes of Urusei Yatsura, Ranma ½, & Tenchi Muyo! carry oodles more sway in inspiring harem creators than Love Hina. Love Hina probably resulted in making harem titles painfully formulaic and generic after it came around, but those other three pretty much laid the groundwork for everything "guy with several girls after his tail" that would follow. |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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No argument there - they made the mold. But you have to admit that the very fact that Akamatsu Ken (correctly) analyzed the harem genre as formulaic, and proceeded to exploit that realisation, in Love Hina (and, it goes without saying, in Negima), makes Love Hina a classic of the harem genre. Think of Akamatsu Ken as the Ed Wood of the harem genre. - abunai |
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Tasha
Posts: 57 |
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I completely agree. It amazes me how many people think that Love Hina (which was released in 2000 or 01) seem to think that it was the big inspirator of harem when Tenchi Muyo appeared nearly a decade before it. Not to mention Kimagure Orange Road... And I don't think influencing harem is all that commendable to begin with. 
Anyways, I agree with Hunter Gen's list. Some people seem to think that popularity alone makes a classic. No, it doesn't...although I'm sure the extremely articulate and intelligent being that posted right above me would disagree. And age matters. Fullmetal Alchemist is not a classic, but may be five years from now. We'll see. Classics are: Rose of Versailles Brother, Dear Brother Sailor Moon Song of Wind and Trees Grave of the Fireflies Barefoot Gen ...that's it. Last edited by Tasha on Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:53 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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See, now, I'm guessing you didn't read a word I said, before you started spouting opinions.... 
Anyway, to cut down on meaningless noise: "classic" does not imply "first". Nor does it imply "definitive". But it does imply "influential". Hmm... here's a good analogy: would you call the Sherlock Holmes stories classics of the detective genre? Even though they were by no means the first, or even terribly original? Of course you would - because afterwards, anyone writing in the genre could reasonably be expected to have read and been influenced by them. -abunai |
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Tasha
Posts: 57 |
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Actually I did read what you said, but I wrote what I said anyway. No reason not to. And I would consider the Holmes stories a classic because they were actually good. Love Hina isn't; therefore, it is by no means a classic regardless if Ai Yori Aoshi and DearS came after it. I don't think because Love Hina helped spawn a plethora of trite and cliche shows it's deserving of merit. Last edited by Tasha on Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:23 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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spider-moose
 Posts: 137 Location: Ontario, Canada |
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personally the more original the title is, the more classic it can be
Mazinger Z is the most classic of all Classic Mecha Giant Robots considering theres tons of other mangas/animes that copy the look and weapons of Mazinger Z ie Rocket Punch the same with astroboy, theres tons of copy cat animes out there that copy Atom, ie Space Ace from Tatsunoko Pro even Megaman is a copy of tons of Anime heroes, Casshan and Astroboy for 2 examples of what megaman copies and even takes elements from Mazinger Z into Megaman Dr. Wily = Dr. Hell Dr. Light = Dr. Yumi everything of Dr. Hell is a skull, like his skull island just like Dr. Wily's Skull Fortress so personally to me, I think the more someone copies from the one title, makes it more of a classic, but it doesn't work for all of them tho but I do agree with alot Hunter Gren points |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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But did Ed Wood inspire those that came after him to basically copy his work ad verbatim, slap a few new names on the characters, and present it as halfheartedly as possible, just as 90% of the harem producers post-Love Hina have done? I don't mean to "glorify the olden days," but at least Tenchi, Urusei, Ah! My Goddess, & the like seemed to show a little effort in their creation, as opposed to the hordes of faceless, indistinguishable carbon copies Akamatsu seemed to help guide along into fruition. |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Ah, now, that is a patently unfair characterisation of the harem genre - and excuse me for saying so, but I think it betrays bias. Granted, there have been some genuine lemons among the crop, but the worst cases have been those anime which were "ported" from H-games or dating games (Kakyuusei 2 springs to mind - about the only thing that had going for it was a catchy OP). Many of the harem anime are formulaic, true, but that is no less true for any other genre. It's why we identify them as genres.
There's a fair bit of truth to that - but I venture to say that the "carbon copy" disease isn't limited to the harem genre. A lot of the anime being produced, of whatever genre, are trite and unoriginal. If not that, they are lacking in one aspect or another (i.e. nice animation but lousy story, or the other way around - or nice animation and good story, but lackluster voice work). This is a sign of the times. For better or worse, anime is a growing industry, and any bubble economy will produce a number of freeloaders who ride the coat-tails of more successful products. Remember the many fly-by-night software companies of the late 1980s and early 1990s, with their various oddball products? Same phenomenon. Hmm. This thread is going off-topic, from "What makes a classic?" to "Is Akamatsu Ken responsible for the glut of bad harem anime, the common cold, and drought in Somalia?" - abunai |
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Haru to Ashura
 Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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I knew it! Just kidding. The problem with Love Hina (excuse my rudeness should I get mean, I'd rather watch news reports than this series.) is that it gets rid of the subplot that made Urusei, Ah! My Goddess and Tenchi Muyo! stronger anime. Tenchi had the whole Jurai power thing going on, which was actually genuinely interesting, My Goddess also had the heavenly conflict thing going on, etc. What Love Hina did that, in my opinion lead to the waste of the genre, was get rid of that extra element. Now devoid of extra plot, there's no way you can claim that Love Hina is about anything besides fanservice and relational hi-jinks, which just gets plain dull pretty fast. And since there's no extra plot additions in Love Hina, there's really nothing more that can be done with the formula, and thus the carbon copies are bound to occur. As for classics, all the good stuff was pretty much already mentioned...overall 'feel' of a show is also important to Classic. Record of Lodoss War has a certain feel to it than simply can't be copied. Similarly, the mood throughout the entire Cowboy Bebop series is what really just made it feel right and come together so well. It's not very concrete, but I think mood/feel/etc. is very important. |
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