Forum - View topicPolish names
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Furozenu
Posts: 3 |
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There's some errors in Polish names in database:
in database -> correct (person number) Anna Bielanska -> Anna Bielańska (#67219) Dariusz Blazejewski -> Dariusz Błażejewski (#67209) Jaroslaw Boberek -> Jarosław Boberek (#62496) Jaroslaw Budnik -> Jarosław Budnik (#67211) Joanna Domanska -> Joanna Domańska (#67208) Jaroslaw Domin -> Jarosław Domin (#67249) Agata Gawronska -> Agata Gawrońska (#67253) Joanna Jablczynska -> Joanna Jabłczyńska (#37287) Jacek Kalucki -> Jacek Kałucki (#67215) Ewa Kani -> Ewa Kania (#70915) Mikolaj Klimek -> Mikołaj Klimek (#67212) Jacek Kopczynski -> Jacek Kopczyński (#67244) Julita Kozusek-Borsuk -> Julita Kożuszek-Borsuk (#67207) Miroslawa Krajewska -> Mirosława Krajewska (#37291) Cezary Kwiecinski -> Cezary Kwieciński (#67232) Katarzyna Lukaszynska -> Katarzyna Łukaszyńska (#67220) Malgorzata Maslanka -> Małgorzata Maślanka (#67221) Jozef Mika -> Józef Mika (#67237) Ryszard Olesinski -> Ryszard Olesiński (#67248) Miroslaw Wieprzewski -> Mirosław Wieprzewski (#67213) Marek Wlodarczyk -> Marek Włodarczyk (#67206) Jolanta Wollejko -> Jolanta Wołłejko (#67251) Leszek Zdun -> Leszek Zduń (#37286) |
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1709 |
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It's the usual practice here to provide proof of your statements, so that the editors don't have to track it down themselves. (For example, I doubt that dormcat is Polish literate.)
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woelfie
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 380 Location: Belgium |
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And while you're at it, please provide us some guidance how to pronounce ń (compared to n) and ł (compared to l).
Fact is that for many languages, vowels and consonants with special stresses are 'reduced' to basic ascii coded characters. In japanese, for example, there's the famous 'ō' reduced to 'o' or 'ou' in German, 'ö' is written 'oe', etc. It's a constant balance between being exact, and keeping the functionality of the system (e.g. because the name wouldn't be recognized if the exact character is not used). I suppose your problem will be solved after other more urgent issues (let's say in about 30 years or so, given the masses of free time that Dan has  ).
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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What about, to keep the search functionality of the names, leaving them as they are now (with the exception of the one name that has no special characters that is misspelled, or with proper alternate spellings for the special characters), and adding the "proper" spellings of the names the same way that kanji names are added? That would preserve the ability to search them without using special characters, yet also include the exact/proper spellings.
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Brda
Posts: 21 Location: Currently in China, otherwise Europe |
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Are these really errors? Isn't it transliteration of the original Polish names using only the English alphabet? I am not sure if the special Polish letters can cause a problem to some users if the computer system does not have the right font, but this may be only a case of older systems. |
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Furozenu
Posts: 3 |
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But some names in database have polish letters. Cynthia Kaszyńska have "ń". Anna Wiśniewska have "ś". Jarosław Domin have "ł" etc.
Not really, but in my opinion when some names have polish letters and some haven't - this is error. Neck or nothing, you know. By the way: Person Ewa Kani is Ewa Kania - this is 100% mistake 
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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This argument would carry a whole lot more weight if you yourself hadn't been the one to enter those Polish-spelled names that you cite, into the Encyclopedia. As it stands, it looks like you are trying to establish a precedent (one that did not exist until you manufactured it) to support your desire for Polish-specific spelling in the Encyclopedia. I am not unsympathetic to your plight (we Danes have our own spelling specificities, with Æ / Ø / Å), but you are behaving with dishonesty in trying to get your wish. - abunai |
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woelfie
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 380 Location: Belgium |
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I don't often quote myself, but I want to do it here anyway : A search (in the upper right corner of this site) for Kaszynska (without stressed 'n') will give you Cyntia Kaszyńska as an alternative result, because the exact name doesn't exist. As you can see, the name is not in bold, meaning it's not the same. A search for Jaroslaw (without the barred 'l') will give you a link to Jaroslaw Domin but not to Jarosław Domin. So you're missing part of the names because you want to be correct. Conclusion : the functionality of ANN changes when trying to enter special characters such as ł or ń (which is not the case with ō or ö or ñ : a search for Ayanokōji or Ayanokoji gives you exact the same results) so those characters shouldn't be used at this moment. |
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Furozenu
Posts: 3 |
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I know, I know... my bad. I'm sorry. I can explain this. In my first steps in this site I tried to add "Łukasz Grzeszczak" to the database. Unfortunately database said that "Ł" is not a letter and ask me to correct his name. I thought: "OK, ANN haven't Polish letter", but I was wrong... this was because "Ł" was first letter in his given name. I was added a few person before I saw that someone add a name with Polish signs. It was too late 
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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There was a time when entering long vowel Ō for many Japanese family names would receive the same message. Only Dan would be able to fix this.
Even that I've been working with the People database for over three years, there are still many mysteries I can never explain. A similar issue would be pen names listed as family names-only. 
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3791 Location: Montreal |
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I would prefer to use the correct accents, but as woelfie pointed out, Ł is not considered equivalent to L in the database, and that's a problem. As long as the ascii and accented versions are interchangeable, you can search for Bielańska using Bielanska or vice-versa, so there's no problem. Since O = Ō, Suguru Ōnuma is an acceptable name. But since Ł ≠ L, Łukasz Grzeszczak is not an acceptable name.
So far it seems like only Ł has that problem. ń and ś and ż are ok. What to do, what to do, what to do... right now I'm leaning towards forbidding the Ł character. For the record, here is a full list of equivalent letters: A À Â Ä Á Ã Å Ā Ă Ą Ǎ Ǟ Ǡ Ǻ Ȁ Ȃ Ȧ Ḁ Ạ Ả Ấ Ầ Ẩ Ẫ Ậ Ắ Ằ Ẳ Ẵ Ặ a à â ä á ã å ā ă ą ǎ ǟ ǡ ǻ ȁ ȃ ȧ ḁ ạ ả ấ ầ ẩ ẫ ậ ắ ằ ẳ ẵ ặ B Ḃ Ḅ Ḇ b ḃ ḅ ḇ C Ç Ć Ĉ Ċ Č Ḉ c ç ć ĉ ċ č ḉ D Ď Ḋ Ḍ Ḏ Ḑ Ḓ d ď ḋ ḍ ḏ ḑ ḓ E È Ê É Ë Ē Ĕ Ė Ę Ě Ȅ Ȇ Ȩ Ḕ Ḗ Ḙ Ḛ Ḝ Ẹ Ẻ Ẽ Ế Ề Ể Ễ Ệ e è ê é ë ē ĕ ė ę ě ȅ ȇ ȩ ḕ ḗ ḙ ḛ ḝ ẹ ẻ ẽ ế ề ể ễ ệ F Ḟ f ḟ G Ĝ Ğ Ġ Ģ Ǧ Ǵ Ḡ g ĝ ğ ġ ģ ǧ ǵ ḡ H Ĥ Ȟ Ḣ Ḥ Ḧ Ḩ Ḫ h ẖ ĥ ȟ ḣ ḥ ḧ ḩ ḫ I Ì Î Í Ï Ĩ Ī Ĭ Į İ Ǐ Ȉ Ȋ Ḭ Ḯ Ỉ Ị i ì î í ï ĩ ī ĭ į ı ǐ ȉ ȋ ḭ ḯ ỉ ị J Ĵ j ĵ ǰ K Ķ Ǩ Ḱ Ḳ Ḵ k ķ ǩ ḱ ḳ ḵ L Ĺ Ļ Ľ Ḷ Ḹ Ḻ Ḽ l ĺ ļ ľ ḷ ḹ ḻ ḽ M Ḿ Ṁ Ṃ m ḿ ṁ ṃ N Ñ Ń Ņ Ň Ǹ Ṅ Ṇ Ṉ Ṋ n ñ ń ņ ň ǹ ṅ ṇ ṉ ṋ O Ò Ô Ö Ó Õ Ō Ŏ Ő Ơ Ǒ Ǫ Ǭ Ȍ Ȏ Ȫ Ȭ Ȯ Ȱ Ṍ Ṏ Ṑ Ṓ Ọ Ỏ Ố Ồ Ổ Ỗ Ộ Ớ Ờ Ở Ỡ Ợ o ò ô ö ó õ ō ŏ ő ơ ǒ ǫ ǭ ȍ ȏ ȫ ȭ ȯ ȱ ṍ ṏ ṑ ṓ ọ ỏ ố ồ ổ ỗ ộ ớ ờ ở ỡ ợ P Ṕ Ṗ p ṕ ṗ Q q R Ŕ Ŗ Ř Ȑ Ȓ Ṙ Ṛ Ṝ Ṟ r ŕ ŗ ř ȑ ȓ ṙ ṛ ṝ ṟ S Ś Ŝ Ş Š Ș Ṡ Ṣ Ṥ Ṧ Ṩ ſ s ś ŝ ş š ș ṡ ṣ ṥ ṧ ṩ ẛ T Ţ Ť Ț Ṫ Ṭ Ṯ Ṱ t ẗ ţ ť ț ṫ ṭ ṯ ṱ U Ù Û Ú Ü Ũ Ū Ŭ Ů Ű Ų Ư Ǔ Ǖ Ǘ Ǚ Ǜ Ȕ Ȗ Ṳ Ṵ Ṷ Ṹ Ṻ Ụ Ủ Ứ Ừ Ử Ữ Ự u ù û ú ü ũ ū ŭ ů ű ų ư ǔ ǖ ǘ ǚ ǜ ȕ ȗ ṳ ṵ ṷ ṹ ṻ ụ ủ ứ ừ ử ữ ự V Ṽ Ṿ v ṽ ṿ W Ŵ Ẁ Ẃ Ẅ Ẇ Ẉ w ẘ ŵ ẁ ẃ ẅ ẇ ẉ X Ẋ Ẍ x ẋ ẍ Y Ý Ŷ Ÿ Ȳ Ẏ Ỳ Ỵ Ỷ Ỹ y ý ÿ ŷ ȳ ẏ ẙ ỳ ỵ ỷ ỹ Z Ź Ż Ž Ẑ Ẓ Ẕ z ź ż ž ẑ ẓ ẕ |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Do this limitation still stand?
I was hoping to clear this error regarding Miroslawa Krajewska. We have at least one person using this character (Mirosław ZBROJEWICZ) and he is returned as a result when searching for "Miroslaw". |
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Devil Doll
 Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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name search for Mirosław returns 1 hit = Mirosław Zbrojewicz.
name search for Miroslaw returns 3 hits = Miroslaw Biebrzanski, Miroslaw Wieprzewski, Miroslawa Krajewska. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
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Ah, I was just using the google search..
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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As for the technical background of the difference between "l" and "ł", there's a long discussion about whether or not this is a bug in mySQL in http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=9604. (ANN is running mySQL according to its FAQ.)
To sum up this lengthy discussion: It apparently depends on the collation that's being used for the table content. As I understood this discussion, it's like this:
Unfortunately, making use of utf8_unicode_520_ci requires mySQL 5.6 which isn't even officially released yet (the latest release was mySQL 5.5). So this may be a possible solution in the not too far future but currently still unavailable. Changing the collation requires the indexes for the table in question to be rebuilt (because the sorting order for characters is changing in the process) which in our case is exactly what we want (because we want a different search result based on the modified index data). |
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