Forum - View topicWhere did all the good space operas go?
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I've been noticing a sad trend in anime recently, and that trend is the death of traditional sci-fi. Sure we still have mecha series (like Gurren Lagann, Gundam, Flag, and Code Geass), and the cyberpunk (like Ghost in the Shell, and Ergo Proxy, and Animatrix), and your sudo sci-fi anime (like The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Paprika, Haruhi, Darker Than Black) but I'm talking about the good old sci fi anime. Where can we get our daily does of space ships and laser guns, our esp powers and alien life forms? I look back on the past decade and find that there is a sad drop in this department. Honestly the only good example that I can find in the past 10 years is Toward the Terra and even that was a remake of the 1980 movie (which was an adaptation of the 1970s manga). How has a fanbase which was raised on the sci-fi extremes of Captain Harlock, Space Adventure Cobra, and Space Battle Ship Yamoto turn their back on this epic art form? Now don't get me wrong I still love the types of sci-fi anime that we get today, but some times it's just not enough.
So the question remains, is this a sign that the anime fanbase is no longer interested in Star Trek-esc themes? Do we no longer have the youthful amazement of space battles? Or am I just crazy and I'm accidently looking over a ton of sci-fi series from this decade? Edited title to clear up confusion* Last edited by Mushi-Man on Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Simple we've lost wonder and imagination.
And for good reason no treats a creative work with respect anymore so it becomes harder for me to make a new series of what I want, I have to make what sells. What is selling now isn't exactly uplifting.... |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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I really only have my pulse on what gets licensed in R1, so there could be stuff being produced in Japan that I never hear about. But the only title that I can think of in the sci-fi genre that has caught my attention (aside from the mecha/military stuff) is Project Blue Earth SOS. It hearkens back to pulp-style sci-fi magazines. The visuals are just breath-taking--literally, pause any scene and it looks ripped straight from the covers of those same magazines. The story is awesome--really, I can't gush about the series enough. It only has 6 episodes, but since those episodes are 45 minutes in length, it is basically your standard 12 episode series. Did I mention that it was really, really good?
Last edited by TheTheory on Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18500 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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So Macross Frontier doesn't count? Or Heroic Age? Or (ugh!) Tytania?
Admittedly, there haven't been many offerings of this type in the past 2-3 years, but this subgenre isn't totally dead. |
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Justin Bailey
 Posts: 221 |
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Macross Frontier and Heroic Age would not because TC excludes mecha series.
Given that the only title you thought of is Toward the Terra, I suspect that a big part of why you find such a dry spell is that you aren't looking in the right places, or you're not putting enough effort to recall the titles you've seen. By far the most praised sci-fi title of this decade is Planetes, which is considered an excellent mix of hard sci-fi, set in the near future, with everyday reality of such technological advancements. Rocket Girls is a more niche title, combining the engineering details of space flight with moe for the geek crowd. Of course, I can't let a topic about space sci-fi go by without mentioning my pet title Starship Operators, a more futuristic hard sci-fi series that makes great use of suspense and drama--both within the war and between the characters. The other big reason you find so few good sci-fi titles is probably your limited definition of the genre. It's not surprising for sci-fi titles to track the fields of science that's prominent in contemporary society--after all, they are looking for an audience. The interest in space has dwindled greatly since the 70s and 80s, with the primary interest being computer science--naturally goes with cyberpunk--and biotech--not sure what titles fall here. By focusing only on space sci-fi--or perhaps more appropriately, space opera--, you're not only using a misleading topic title, but you're missing more down to earth gems like Yukikaze (about fictional fighter pilots). Last edited by Justin Bailey on Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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TheTheory: I had forgotten about Project Perfect Blue SOS, and I would say that it does fit snugly into this genre.
Key: Sadly, I have seen non of these series yet. Though from what I understand about Heroic Age it doesn't quite fit into the area that I was talking about, though I have heard it's a very good series. Justin Bailey: I'm not talking about sci-fi in general, some star Trek-esc sci-fi. I would reluctantly say that I'm referring to Military Sci-fi but that's not quite right either. The only one that you've listed that I would really throw in with the likes of Yamoto and Harlock is (unfortunately) Starship Operators. It's the only one which actually contains space battles. It's kinda sad to say that Takashi Watanabe is one of the few directors still using space battles. That being said I think your evaluation modern sci-fi culture maybe quite accurate. But don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming the genre to be dead, but you have to admit it's no where near as powerful of a sub-genre as it once was. Anime use to be dominated by these heavily western sci-fi influenced shows. I admit the intro might have come off as a bit dooms day-ish but what I'm really asking is: do you think there is a cultural shift in anime fandom that is under-valuing this genre? Do you think that there is a specific reason for this decline in space battles in anime? |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I'll restate
Money. Show like that are not making enough money to either break even or profit, why make them when high school romance moe comedy series trounces it money-wise? So now we have a situation where we have creators who are not able to make the shows they want to make, they have to make what can turn a profit just to stay afloat. (check Youtube for comment from Nabeshin about this as he pretty much said "I have had several of my show ideas turned down." Reason? Not profitable enough to cover costs or at least forecast that way. So it's a problem of the "fans" making if you really want to sit back and reflect upon it. |
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Mushi-Man
Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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Yes I understand that it's not profitable, I can conclude that much on my own. But I'm trying to jump to the root cause and ask why are the fans no longer buying these series? It can't be "just because", there must be a reason for this. So far I would be inclined to support Justin Bailey's conclusion on the matter. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I think Kurau: Phantom Memory is a great Sci-Fi series, even though the main focus is on the characters rather than the setting.
And what about Noein? Surely a series about quantum physics (no matter how flawed the physics presented in the show may be) could be safely classified as a Sci-Fi work? |
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Nanoob
Posts: 23 |
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Should be about 5 years old, by now. |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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Pale Cocoon
Not licensed, but the Japanese DVD has English subtitles and is cheap for a Japanese release (it's available for about $25 new, less used). Short, but memorable. Think thoughtful sci-fi, don't expect action or lasers. Very good. Edit: I see your definition of sci-fi is limited. Pale Cocoon is definitely sci-fi, but doesn't really fit what you seem to be looking for. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I second Starship Operators, emphatically. A solid SF tale, with more-or-less credible physics (including well-defined light/time delay "fog of war"), and all the smash-bang space battles you could ask for -- as well as a very engaging story with human details and politics.
Planetes gets my vote, too, for its back-to-basics space-age grit. Also, for having some of the most realistically animated zero-G physics I've seen. I'd moderator-horsewhip hissatsu01 for listing, for only mentioning Pale Cocoon without further detailed exposition (not just a good idea, it's Teh Rules) -- however, in this case he gets a free pass, because Pale Cocoon should not be explained, lest it be spoiled.
Holy frack, I'm officially old. Five years, and it feels like yesterday. - abunai |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2094 |
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The OP was trying to think of titles that came out in the last 10 years, so it definitely counts. Though as the OP suggested, I don't think it's the type of sci-fi he's looking for. |
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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The last remake of Capitan Harlock was from 2003.
I think that lack of SF isn't an anime problem, but it is visible in every kind of culture. In one of Nochnoy Dozor books the protagonist wonders why people no more dream about space travels, even if they are more possible for them than using magic. Most of the "pure sf" books come from 60s-80s- time when space expeditions developed the most. Back then it seemd that in 21st century everyone will have a holiday house on a moon. Nowdays governments aren't so keen on spending money for something that isn't so prestigious as it used to be. Some years ago space was for writers and directors like jungle for XIX novelists- mystery place when strange adventures took place. Now our real life space projects aren't so picturesque so it's harder to get inspiration from them. |
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Need to sit back and reflect more. Although I can point the direction. I said that there are "fans" that are partially to blame for this. I'll put them into two categories, basically the ones in Japan vs. everywhere else. There is a segment of "hardcore" anime fans that take anime is for the Japanese to a very extreme level to the point of not liking "western" influences in "their" anime. The reason I bring this up is because take a good look at American fandom, we list Sci-Fi shows as being great gateway series, must see, and in general have a strong liking to those types of shows over other types of shows, the problem than become sthat making a Sci-Fi show can be seen as not catering to the needs of this hardcore group, which wouldn't be so bad, but the hardcore group is the group that buys in Japan, in fairly large numbers. Which brings me to every other "fan", anime has a groups of people dedicated to "getting anime out there" to as many people as possible for free (with no compensation or licensing going back to the creators of the series.) There are a groups of "fans" in this that have grown to refuse to pay for any aspect of their professed hobby. This includes Sci-Fi anime, and is lessened because not only now is the Japanese market drying up but so is other potential markets to. So when you look at a Sci-Fi show it's more of a risk to do just because your market at home may respond to it as pandering to western tastes, and the market outside of Japan has a sense of entitlement to it that they should be able to see it for free without giving anything back. All things being equal it's no wonder most are either leaving the anime field all together or making what might have the chance to at least make something. |
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