Forum - View topicCould the anime industry evolve into streaming only?
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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As in a complete end to physical media of any kind being produced (except printed material such as manga).
The predicted collapse of Media-Blasters I think has people concerned that Funimation could be the only U.S. anime licensor left. It wouldn't exactly be a monopoly because the industry is struggling overall. I actually see people worrying that this Vampire Bund thing is going to lead to their demise too. Kind of ridiculous to think individual titles create enough of an impact. An innovative marketing strategy and successful titles will keep them afloat. Personally I've never really been much of a Funimation supporter, and not because of how they handled Vampire Bund (other reasons). Their big product line is something that is becoming obsolete, but Funimation already have their foot safely in the door of the streaming/VoD biz. No surprise there. I'm more of a Crunchyroll supporter and I see their simulcasting and streaming focus to be much more successful in the future. After all they are being pretty bold and dropping off what is still a moneymaker for them in this shaky economy where chancy maneuvers like this can make you or break you. So basically if DVDs go the way of the dodo bird, I expect a stiff market competition to develop between itunes, Crunchyroll and Funimation. Funimation I think is at a disadvantage because they are still staking a lot in the survival of the home DVD entertainment industry. Oops forgot to consider Blu-Ray in this picture. Hmm, is anime on BD business doing any better than DVD? |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24030 |
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I do believe that physical media will eventually become a thing of the past (and obviously not just for anime) but for anything that is capable of being rendered digitally: books, games, movies, TV, etc.
Streaming is one option, but the other is download-to-own. I discussed this recently in the Talkback thread about Crunchy canceling its dto option. We are still a number of years away from physical media being superseded, but the writing is clearly on the wall and has been for some time. Naturally, there are those who maintain that physical media will NEVER be overtaken, but they'll eventually find themselves storing their BD players beside their butter churns and blacksmith anvils. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18359 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Funimation hasn't (yet) shown any signs of overextending themselves (like ADV did), relying too heavily on fringe titles (like Geneon did), or overpricing stuuf (like Bandai Visual did), so they're in no danger. This apparent fiasco over Bund may ever work in their favor long-tem. And even if they did go down, Sentai Filmworks/Section 23 is still quite active right now and Viz Media is still in the picture.
We're still yet several years (at least) away from the point where things like DVDs/Blu-Rays become obsolete and much, much longer than that on print media. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I'll get quite a bit of feedback for what I'm about to say, but I do believe the U.S. anime industry would be best to have only one distributor. The choice fans have made shows FUNimation to be this sole company. Nothing against Nozomi, Section23, and others, but their businesses are hurting so much, they can no longer dub their own titles. Screw the dub v. sub debates, people, and focus here. They're financially hurting. That translates to fans are not buying their works. These businesses also don't have the capital to adjust for a changing market. I see this as nothing short of a forthcoming demise. If a company doesn't have the revenue to dub, then how long can they remain if people stop buying their sub only offerings. I shouldn't use the word inevitable, but I will. It's inevitable FUNimation will be the sole U.S. distributor of anime. That's an opinion only and not a fact.
I'm going to be blunt here, but the only people who believe this are those too inept to see beyond their own selfishness.
I'd say the ridiculousness came from ignorant opinions, honestly.
From my professional experience, I do not believe FUNimation's "raking in the cash" with their subscription and DTO revenue options. I would logically conclude their DTO offerings were as successful as Crunchyroll's, which has a much larger library. This isn't bad news, though. A revenue stream is still a stream, and even if it makes $1.99 a day, that's $1.99 more than they had yesterday. But these options are not viable business models.
I disagree with this. If anything, I see FUNimation as the only U.S. distributor adapting to the market outside of the DVD. The first big news came when FUNimation announced it was going to co-produce anime. This is a huge step in future adaptation as it allows them to invest initially which will translate in lower/no licensing costs post production. This could further translate as mass-producing DVDs and offer them at lower prices than what we see today. The second news item was the licensing deal made with a toy company (they make "Mallows"). On the surface, this doesn't seem like big news. But it is. It's tremendous news, as I read it as "We're going to break out of our model of selling just DVDs." It is no secret merchandise is what supports the industry, not DVD sales alone. By securing this deal, that's another source of revenue for FUNimation. It's just a damn shame we don't have companies who could produce figures on the likes of Alter, but that's a different matter.
BD is already dead, it's just that no one's made the tombstone for it. BD sales have been surging, but have yet to make up the losses for the DVD market overall. Translation: The Grim Reaper is nearby. Streaming hasn't taken off because the computer and television are considered separate devices. However, this is about to change. The television is now on its way of the dodo as well as manufacturers are tying together more options within their devices to make them easier to connect to the internet. The TV, after all, is nothing more than a monitor as most are now hooked up to a DVR, game console, and in some cases, even a computer so that internet access is available. Once the media center is complete, streaming/downloading will definitely replace how we view our entertainment. TV stations will long be dead as we'll refer to content by their address, not channel. The digital age is upon us. Now, if only these damned dinosaurs running content businesses would hurry up and adapt, they'll realize the potential revenues they could make outside of the plastic disk. But I'll be long dead before I ever see this happen. |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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There is safety in a physical product that I don't think will ever disappear. I don't like buying things that can disappear the second my computer crashes. Sure, people back up what they download onto CD/DVD/external/etc, but it just isn't the same--externals are prone to crash, and if you go the CD/DVD route you're all of a sudden back to a physical piece of media. Equally important is the ability to re-sell something... a physical media can be re-sold on ebay (or in a used store) if for any reason you don't want it any more. Not so with a digital file.
It becomes even more bleak when you consider the prices--most music albums are $9.99 on iTunes--which is a bit less than they could be found in most stores, but it isn't an earth-shattering difference. Physical cds aren't selling because iTunes is undercutting them--physical cds aren't selling because bit-torrent is so rampant. Indeed, anime companies are having trouble finding a way to making money off of online streams/downloads. Either it is ad-supported (which they really don't make much from... this isn't like TV where advertisers basically pay off a show--this is beans compared to that) or there is some sort of actual fee involved. This isn't limited to just anime--even the big broadcasting corporations are struggling with this issue--hulu.com was in the red last time I heard. Really, how many people in the anime-demographic (or over all for that matter) are THAT interested in buying something that is on equal footing with a torrent? If download is the only option, the option is download with a cost or free (but illegal) download. Most internet users have proven that, even with legal (but costly) downloads available, they'll still go the torrent route. A physical product gives the fan something that a download can't--something to hold, something to display on their shelf, pretty art boxes, and sometimes some bonus swag. Basically, IF there is a US-based anime industry, it won't be a streaming-only industry. If things get bad enough to where all R1 licensers disappear then we'll probably start seeing the Japanese anime companies interested in a subtitled download-to-own situation where they are completely in charge of it--there have been hints of that sort of model already (with Strike Witches, for example), though rather clunkily implemented. |
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krelyan
Posts: 173 Location: Utah |
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Streaming is most certainly not going to be your sole source for anime at any conceivable point in the future. Physical media still provides a higher quality product for a larger market as those with DVD/BD players still outnumber those with high-speed internet connections. If streaming wants to compete, ISP companies are going to have to increase the bandwidth they offer to consumers. But at this point, they do not seem to be interested in expanding the infrastructure necessary to do so. It defeats the purpose of having HD offerings when they're highly, highly compressed.
I keep seeing this referenced that continuing to support the physical media market is a poor business decision for companies and that they should be dropping everything to invest in the digital future. Unless online ad revenues return to 2008'ish levels, physical media is going to remain many times more profitable than the digital market for years to come. Why do you think Funimation gets first stab on titles while Crunchyroll is relegated to second pickings? Anime on BD is still in its infancy, but I think its safe to wager that it is still more profitable than what they are making via streaming and DTO. BD will never have the dominance DVD had as there are far more options these days, but it will likely be a dominant market for quite a few years. Just because Funimation and other DVD publishers are supporting this format doesn't mean they believe it's the industry's savior. What streaming will do, however, is replace the TV market, while physical media and DTO serve the home media market. These two factions have co-existed for decades by this point and it's not unreasonable to believe they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
Nearly all the other R1 licensors have done this at some point in time. In fact, some of the titles co-produced by ADV are now being distributed by Funimation. It remains to be seen what Funimation will do differently. PetrifiedJello, why is that you note that the hypothetical "$1.99 is more than nothing" for streaming's revenue, but then rail against BD for "being already dead" when it is far more profitable? Yes, it has not made up for losses for the DVD market, but neither has streaming. Wouldn't it be equally as silly to write-off streaming with a statement like: "Digital media has been growing, but has yet to make up for the losses incurred by the DVD market. Translation: The Grim Reaper is nearby."? |
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TheTheory
Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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Its tough to compare BluRay to DVD at this point... Blu Ray has not been around for too long--it caught the early converters (technolophiles, trendy folk), but then the economic recession hit and conditions just haven't been right for the medium to grow the way it should. For most people, upgrading to blu-ray would mean both upgrading their TV AND getting a Blu-Ray player. A tall order for the common American during a recession.
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I didn't want to bore people with the economics factor in the streaming aspect. In short: it's ridiculous to charge for something having an infinite supply. This, of course, will get people riled up to think we must pay for everything we view in order to support the artists. Unfortunately, it's difficult to have a discussion when parties are unwilling to see the bigger picture of all this. It is impossible to monetize the internet. Sure, there are plenty of ways to increase revenues, if only slightly, but online avenues will never offset the costs of a physical, yet scarce, good. Expanding on this, and we'll have but no choice to enter the realm of the fan sub site, and that's just asking for trouble. I'm not sure how CR set up its DTO model, but it appears it was costing more to offer it than it took in. If I had to guess, I would say the credit card services behind the model was costing them. In my honest opinion, CR will die one day. Not because people aren't financially supporting it, but because other businesses will wise up and adapt to the digital distribution system and will force them out of business. Taking Hulu as an example, Viacom pulled two major shows from the site, and they were big shows to lose. This means ad revenue just tanked, and it'll be interesting to see how Hulu overcomes this loss. While it makes sense many here are focused on the anime element of entertainment, what's going on in the "bigger world" has serious consequences to anime fans. If CR goes away, what's left for alternative, and legal, anime offerings? Never assume NBC (et al) doesn't have the power to hurt the anime industry should they pull their content from CR. That's why there's so much worry about "piracy" and IP control right now. If a fan uploads an episode of "House" on YouTube, this takes away viewership on Hulu (that is, until YouTube pulls the video, but the damage will have already been done). Like many elements of life, over saturate a market (too many video sites), and try to get people to pay (good luck with that), and failure for many of those sites is inevitable. Just ask Veoh. |
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ZakuAce
 Posts: 525 Location: SE Wisconsin |
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Not to mention the BD discs themselves are more expensive than DVDs. |
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LaFreccia
 Posts: 324 |
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 Funny.
I agree with you, but lost my post somehow, so I'll just summarize rather than repeat. Until/when they figure out how to accurately measure online viewing behavior, streaming will be a much more legit business. Right now measures of consumer attention emphasize traditional media, including TV, so streaming sites aren't able to capitalize on viewer attention (yet). |
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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If/When the industry does decide to become stream-only, it won't have me throwing $3000 a year at it anymore. The biggest reason I started buying anime was for the DVDs and all their glory because I am a collecting nerd. That's not to say I don't watch streams, I watch them often, but I usually end up buying those shows on DVD and there's no way I'd buy a stream. They have no real monetary value because, like PetrifiedJello brought up, they're in infinite supply and anyone can get one anytime they want and, like TheTheory mentioned, you can't resell them. Plus, they don't have collection value like a DVD does.
DTO is also out the picture for the same reason and because you'll end up buying more than the show. Follow me here: I'd not only have to buy a show in a format I don't like, but I'd also have to buy an extra harddrive to store them because I can't keep them on my laptop and I would also probably end up backing them up onto DVDs (would you look at that  ) for insurance, which also wouldn't be free.
I just don't trust digital media and I'd rather skip all that crap and stick to DVDs and BDs. |
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sdsichero
 SubscriberPosts: 168 |
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If it is online, I would hope dto is in the mix... along with the ability to make it portable (not locked to one computer).
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TatsuGero23
 Posts: 1277 Location: Sniper Island, USA (It's in your heart!) |
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Personally I don't see much of an evolution happening for the industry or the home video industry in general until we finally make that push to intergrate television with the internet which is still in its early infancy. Even then when the internet becomes more accessible and albet safer to surf like Television, then you'll see a shift to a more digital market. That or when Funi and CR can make a video game console friendlier versions of their websites. Even with better streamlining of how a company gets a show out to its audience via the internet, I can't see DVDs or BD going away for the insurance reasons The King of Harts pointed out.
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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I can't see the need for physical copies is ever going to go away. People like the security of them. On top of that there's just something different about actually having the hard copy of your favorite anime that's never going to die. I've tried the whole download to own thing before and it just didn't feel the same. I like having an actual hard copy on my shelf.
But I can still see the possibility that this evolution my happen at some point. But I think it well be far down the line from now. The technologies involved with streaming are still simple and not that accessible, there aren't enough streaming titles out there yet and I would want an easily accessed bank of titles to choose from. And there's also the fact that not everyone has the internet yet. As of 2009 only 74% of the American population has ready access to the internet. Also lets not forget the fact that streaming is often grittier and can lag compared to the mainstay DVD. The only times I use any type of streaming now is to preview the product and then I like to buy it so I have that "real deal" copy. I think TatsuGero23 has a good point. The integration of the internet into tv is key to the evolution of streaming. And it's not just that but the integration of the internet of everyday life. And this isn't that much to ask for actually. One of the big research fields today in science is the development of new ways to integrate computers and the internet into more and more of our everyday life. I think allot of people in this field wont stop until we eventually live in a world like Ghost in the Shell, which I am all for. That would be REALLY easy to use. But of course I digress. The point that I'm getting at here is that streaming video needs to get more integrated with the already existing infrastructure of media, mainly the television. |
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FaytLein
 Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
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Well, with the evolution of the internet over the last few years, streaming will become a very viable, if not the way entertainment will be enjoyed by people. However, with that being said, rules and laws would have to be put in place that many wouldn't want in the digital landscape in order to protect individuals rights in the internets at the expense of others rights. Because without a codifying set of rules, businesses simply will not be able to exist without traditional sources of income, either through broadcasting fees and physical media sales. Will these things come to pass? Most likely, but not without a lot of trial and error on everyone's part before we come to some kind of viable system.
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